Occupy Vancouver to become Occupy a jailcell

Originally posted by GodefroydeBouillon
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Thanks for bringing up big words, vancouver is not st louis or what ever place youve been, so if youve never been to vancouver canada, and you dont know how people live and act, well that just means you have no idea what you are taking about...

Where where you when drive by shootings where going on, did you complain about the riots, did you complian about the drug overdose happening by the hour, de laisser faire of the vancouve rpolice...

I think not, so go peddle your agenda where someone might care

It sounds like there's been a riot going on in your town for years.

Don't get mad at the rest of us who don't understand the area. Still, you justifying how rotten it is there, is no excuse for the bad behavior of people that are participating in the occupy movement. Or, are you saying none of them are responsible for being kicked out?

reply to post by GodefroydeBouillon


also www.icafebc.com...

but anyone can do a google search..... you dont like me or this thread then GTFO

you come here and talk about all of vancouver's problems BUT the focal point of this thread

Originally posted by GodefroydeBouillon
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Thanks for bringing up big words, vancouver is not st louis or what ever place youve been, so if youve never been to vancouver canada, and you dont know how people live and act, well that just means you have no idea what you are taking about...

Where where you when drive by shootings where going on, did you complain about the riots, did you complian about the drug overdose happening by the hour, de laisser faire of the vancouve rpolice...

I think not, so go peddle your agenda where someone might care

Okay.... You know what? Never mind... That's your second post to me and third on the thread that has a very sharp, nasty and personal edge to it. Keep it...

If you wander back and ask/state something straight and without personal attack implied our outright stated at the same time... I will enjoy an intelligent discussion about OWS and where I come from as a supporter and now someone far less than agreeable to what I see. However....I'm not getting into a fight with you or anyone else just to prove I can yell further on an internet blog. It isn't worth it, and this debate isn't worth it.

BTW.... OWS is holding itself up as national....global and the 99%. That means they are, or they are not. OWS can't have it both ways. I don't HAVE to go to Vancouver personally to have an opinion on the OWS movement and their part IN the overall movement they have chosen to stand with. *I* am part of the 99% too, you see....That gives me the right to whatever opinion, and it isn't 'peddling'. It's stating things the way I see it. Freedom of Speech is a beautiful thing.

To be fair..my msg before this was really angry by my standards...and why I changed my mind and will bow out of the thread for a bit... It just isn't worth blowing up over someone defending a movement that isn't worth that effort any longer. (shakes head)

reply to post by supine

I have a question then, is this the only place the occupy movement is allowed to be in Vancouver? Why aren't they trying to hold this some place else to keep the bad elements out?

It's the police's fault for letting the main urban area going to crap. It's a central location that is suitable for the gathering compared to other places logistics wise. If the protesters had their protest anywhere near the rich old population of Vancouver it would get shut down right away by some stupid by-law. Plus who wants to protest in a Home-Depot or strip mall parking lot? That's all Vancouver is other than the nice big mansions and brand new condos.

Sorry guys, I have to side with GodefroydeBouillon. I know the area and the "politics" of how things usually work. But this does seem kind of "right wing/conservative" for Vancouver. They are usually way more liberal.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


the Vancouver art gallery is the "designated point of public protest" the legal place to be..... unfortunately the Santa parade is on the way and Santa's workshop is supposed to be at the art gallery but now Christmas will be occupied by the protesters.

they have already re-routed the parade

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by supine

 

I have a question then, is this the only place the occupy movement is allowed to be in Vancouver? Why aren't they trying to hold this some place else to keep the bad elements out?

II know the area and the "politics" of how things usually work. But this does seem kind of "right wing/conservative" for Vancouver. They are usually way more liberal.

the pressure from susan anton got to gregor's head. he knows he could lose the upcoming election because of this.
he's appealing to the voters with money who are losing money cause of this

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Dude you are implying things that arent real, so sorry if reality is rough to accept, so plz if you have no idead, and have never been to vancouver, all you are adding is hear say...

Reality sucks right

I wanted to stat out of all of this and just continue as a lurker on the whole 'Occupy' subject, but it's really too bad that the media is spinning this in away that makes you think right off the bat that 'just some 'drug-addict' had an overdose. She was a 20 year old girl who made a dumb decision, just like countless 20 year old girls before her. Not some drug addicted weirdo.

reply to post by Majestyka


Your implying things that arent real, and your trying to say your there and vancouver is your city.

So the media is trying to spin the reality of vancouver, and saying that its the ows movement fault lol, ows has nothing to do with drugs or anything else, but your still trying to prove me worng, with hear say...

SO thank you, im sorry that the truth hurt eheheh

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Lol wrabbit didint like to be told the truth eheheh, seriously, all i asked was do you have any idead how life is in vancouver, all you had to say was no sorry im writing this with information from the internet, hear say and from the news...

Then i would have answered thank you for trying, but you have no valid point, aint nothing againts you.

reply to post by supine


Lol where am i mad, all im saying if youve never been to vancouver, how can you know how the people live and act, so sorry again its all hear say and that meens there is nothing valid to add here...

SO thank you have a nice day

Originally posted by GodefroydeBouillon
reply to post by Majestyka

 

Your implying things that arent real, and your trying to say your there and vancouver is your city.

So the media is trying to spin the reality of vancouver, and saying that its the ows movement fault lol, ows has nothing to do with drugs or anything else, but your still trying to prove me worng, with hear say...

SO thank you, im sorry that the truth hurt eheheh

implying things that arnt real? please clarify....
I live in Vancouver yes
im trying to prove to you that its ows's fault about what? drugs no.... you brought Vancouver's drug problem into this.
what truth hurt? your post here has made very little sense.

pires, who said he has also attended Occupy Toronto, said “I think without a doubt the Occupy Vancouver and Toronto spaces are among the safest public spaces I’ve been in.” A homeless man who gave his name as Night Al-Haqq, 22, of Surrey, said he can rarely access shelters and often sleeps in the street, but has been well-fed and cared for at the camp. “If the city [moves to eject campers] I’ll be upset,” he said. “I’ll want to fight.” Read it on Global News: Global News | City of Vancouver will seek injunction to end Occupy Vancouver tent city

Global


iam sorry you do not understand vancouver as it seems it has been painted in a bad light with you!

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
I'm just making an observation here, but it seems that every bad thing to happen...every bad incident that goes down within Occupy, is always someone else's fault. Does anyone else notice that? It's agigtators, or police plants, or right wing infiltrators. If there is a rape, it either didn't really happen that way....or it did and was strictly an isolated incident.

Robbery? Oh...one bad apple and all that...or somebody off the street who wasn't a part of them. Violent protesters? Bonfires? Broken windows and injured members of the public? Oh..that was a one time thing, or media is just lying...or IF it really happened, well there are those evil Police infiltrators again! It was them! Had to be...

If Occupy had ever..or ever DOES just stand up, take responsibility for the fact that they have BAD people in their movement and they need to work on getting them OUT of OWS, the public would likely respect that and offer more support, not less.

Endlessly blaming someone else...EVERYONE else..sounds too much like the scumbag politicians so many of us either joined OWS or supported from a distance to see something done ABOUT, NOT watch OWS become themselves.

Biting officers?? Stealing ammunition magazines?? What is this crap, Romper Room??

OWS needed some adult supervision right from day one. They never really got it, despite the well meaning individuals...and now it's far too late to really make any difference. I hope the good people are out or getting out before this movement is put down hard and with force. That is coming in days, not weeks, no matter how everything else in the world turns out this week.

I agree with you that OWS needs a better security committee and that they need to kick the criminals out of the movement, even though this is a 99% movement (criminals are 99%, but they are not helping if they do commit crime on the movement's occupation place).

And to answer your question, are they all bad apples...No, but most of them. Sure, there are some violent occupiers, there are anarchists, extremists. Sure! It was to be expected after 2 months of protesting.

There's one thing to consider, and it is the number of people going to these protests. I have done a quick calculation according to these data . According to the NYC stats, there was 1 crime for every 42 citizens in 2010. That's a lot to be honest, and the crime rate at OWS is no way near 1/42. What it does mean is that it's actually a "safe place" (notice the " " ) compared to the rest of the city.

So yeah, there are crimes in OWS, but the crime rate is no way as impressive as the city's rate. Get what I mean?

I don't think anybody here denies there are crimes within the movement, and I think most people agree that there are some criminals within, occupiers causing troubles and etc. But when you compare it to the city's crime rate, it's not as bad as the media want us to think.

As for the occupiers stealing ammunition, did the police really needed to come armed with weapons to a peaceful protest?

And as for the vandalism, yes, some occupiers did it, but you should consider this as well. Just know they show up at every protest, no matter what is the cause:

Notice how some occupiers are trying to push them away and stop the violence/vandalism. I have already linked this video many times, yet OWS haters don't remember it. Short memory, or selective memory?

No seriously I agree that the movement needs more security and more collaboration with the police (though the police themselves aren't really cooperative...I hope we agree on this, you really see Occupy Oakland putting their trust into these thugs?).

But the key points of my reply here is OWS' crime rate vs the cities' crime rate. Yes there are a lot of crimes, but there are over hundred of thousands of occupiers, worldwide. I find the number of crimes quite low as to what I would have expected!

Peace out, and know that most of these crimes were exaggerated by the media as they are heavily against the movement. Wasn't this common knowledge here on ATS that MSM weren't to be trusted? Funny how it can change quickly...

PS: Yes, there are opportunists, agent saboteurs, infiltrators, and paid troublemaker. Let's not deny this, it happens at almost every protests.

reply to post by Majestyka


Again all i asked was for proof and you got none, no article that isint bias, no pictures of you behing there, so where is the evidence...

That area of vancouver used to be hell on hearth, now they just moved that crowd a bit farther downtown, so there a homeless problem a drug problem, but heck its really the OWS thats the problem, again you have no proof just 2 bias articles and nothing else...

Can you get me some proof or your just gonna call me out lol

Oh and the city asked a judge to rule againts the OWS encampment, so they can leagaly brake it down, thats the last news i have heard about, im not sure if the decision was made already...

reply to post by GodefroydeBouillon


proof of what? you want proof im in vancouver? that has nothing to do with any of this
want proof that a few bad people have soured the whole occupy vancouver movement?

all you have provided is a biased view of vancouver

the protest began at the art gallery and is still there and has never moved.....the art gallery isnt even the vancouver eastside..... its right downtown

occupy is helping homeless people, and drug addicts alike...... it is not occupy's problem that the addicts do drugs....

people are in court RIGHT NOW. court just finished no decision..... to be continued tomorrow

Originally posted by GodefroydeBouillon
Oh and the city asked a judge to rule againts the OWS encampment, so they can leagaly brake it down, thats the last news i have heard about, im not sure if the decision was made already...

finally your first on topic post!!!!!

As a resident of Vancouver, I feel it may be my time to interject....

First off I Love my country, I love my city, and I love the people that are from here, we are one of a kind. That being said, all are right there is no place like Vancouver, if you have never been here, and have never spent a fair amount of time in the city, day and night you will never know.

You can watch all the documentaries that you want, read as many puff pieces about how great the city is, or take in a fifth estate episode on the seedy side of this great city, and be able to put together an outside idea of what your going to encounter. But it will never really get you prepared for what you may see.

Granted like any big city we have our problems, yes drugs are a huge problem in the DTES, we have what equates to an open air drug market that seemingly operates unfettered by the local police force, that in turn has created our own bi-weekly zombie apocalypse each welfare wednesday. During the olympics it was there for all to see, our cities problems are readily available for all to see. We also have one of the largest homeless populations in all of Canada, due to the variable climate in our region. So yes say that this area has it run down places and what not, but......

When the 99% amassed on October 15th it was a coming together, I for one went down to the protest, I stood with what was seemingly thousands of others, who young and old were at that point unified under a movement.

I went down personally because I wanted to see, that my voice was heard on corporate collusion with government, mass amounts of corruption within our leadership, and overall corporate greed.

But this is Vancouver one of the most multicultural, diverse, open minded places I am sure on the entire face of this planet. The collective entity as a whole was not there to suppress greed, or stop fish farms, or find missing women, or hold an inquiry into missing billions mis-spent by our government. They were there for that and some, this movement due to the overall lack of volatility in the canadian banking systems lacked the pent up rage americans are feeling, we lacked the overall defining glue that held us all together. And from what I saw the first day, this was 100 protests inside a protest. The generalized feeling was there but, the adhesive was not.

I have been down many weekends now to see where this movement has expanded too. And have had this past week off from work to be an observer to what it has become. And as my personal opinion, I have seen the movement break down, I have seen it become sidetracked by others, wills and direction. It was horribly managed to begin with. The consensus model although progress made was a real joke in the beginning. As there was no real way to come to a consensus on consensus.

Now though I feel IMHO just mine, not the medias, but what I witness with my own eyes. Is democracy high jacked, what started out as thousands, all unified has become disillusioned by what this has become. The general assembly convened disagrees openly with issues, you have spokespeople who get media play, who look like the same people who high jacked any other charged issue in our city. Once again my personal opinion this has become a homeless squat. It has been taken over by the disenfranchised, there are from what i've talked to still people who are there for the original cause, or something close too it. But they are few and far between, there still is a semblance of order those who take charge. But personally they don't speak for me, or half of those I came with that original day. the list of demands is at best understandable, and at times laughable.

/66acl62

With our fair city you are always going to have an upfront social issue that is going to cause a stir as I said, one of the most open drug policies in the world, a large homeless population. You don't have to look far on the streets of Vancouver to occupy a tent city, for what ever reason. You will see what ever protest take on there it's own face here, well in all honesty because we have a lot to protest about.

But I feel our occupy movement is a failure, the people left cling to the security the group seems to provide although divided. The group mentality as a whole seems to still be present. I also just feel that the overall message has become more a ply for homeless rights than a protest against corporate greed, it's more a personal agenda of the same people who have been protesting for years against the social inequalities your going to find in one of "the most expensive cities in the world".

So personally, with the death, the chucking of urine, the biting, stealing of ammunition, a list of demands that seems out of touch with the original movement, more a homeless squat than a protest. I say shut it down, and let our city wait for the next pressing social issue, to get the political mudslinging going again.

OccupiednowEmbarrassed