If Ron Paul doesnt win, America will regret it.

reply to post by ApplesOnFire


Regret? Maybe. I suppose that really depends on one's political and economic philosophies, as well as one's endurance to promulgate a vision thru to its end.

I will be disappointed if he's not elected (i.e. I do support Dr. Paul's atavism, if only because much of it is based on tested principles), but I also think people understand that the laissez faire policies he espouses are not necessarily to their immediate and long term benefit. So there are trade-offs with his vision, and it's expected that many people will disagree with those trade-offs. But for those who have grown tired of government boondoggling and are willing to accept the potential downturns they may face consequent to his economic policies, Dr. Paul is an ideal candidate. Besides this I think proponents of Dr. Paul should not allow their hope to hinge on whether he is or is not elected. It is not Ron Paul the man who is most important, but the ideas he has brought to our attention. These ideas have gained traction in the face of economic downturn, largely due to credit default swaps that were encouraged by FOMC monetary policy, in addition to 10+ years of armed, overseas conflict that, as many actual security experts contend, has created more extremism than it has quelled across the globe. So whether he wins the republican nomination and ascends to the Oval Office--yes, that is important. But if he does not it's just as important to continue making the arguments that less government and less foreign misadventure is the least of all evils we can hope to achieve.

reply to post by Evolutionsend


"Changing your mind" is a good thing? How is Ron Paul "stubborn". I think what you're used to are politicians who consistently lie, flip-flop or say whatever it is that they think people want to hear so they can get elected.

Ron Paul has held the same ideals and beliefs for 20, 30 years not because he's "stupid or stubborn" but because he's principled and consistent.

And its time that people started to take notice. His warnings have been proven correct whether its foreign policy or our economic turmoil.

Originally posted by Wookiep
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

Yeah yeah yeah. We've all heard your left wing motivated stories before. We could turn this into a giant paradox if you'd like? This thing could end up circular and then we'd have no winners, right? You're no better than those you accuse. Just knock it off, you aren't fooling anyone. If you are, then I feel sorry for those people who are fooled.

Your weakness is that you fail to realize there are some people out there who have genuine stances for this country and they don't make choices based on if it's "left or right." You clearly do. Anyone who wishes to understand better can simply check your post history.

edit on 8-11-2011 by Wookiep because: (no reason given)

Yeah, I'm a leftist. Now, if you would hurry up and get the hell over it, instead of sitting in a corner and pouting, we might get somewhere.

Do you have any cogent defense for an economic plan that essentially robs you to enrich the wealthy? A plan centered around dismantling nearly a century of public works - at a loss - for the enrichment of a small handful of "investors?" A plan that has, as its cornerstone, the increase of the level of poverty and those vulnerable to poverty in our nation?

Look, I know you love Ron Paul. But I honestly don't think he's that into you. A Ron Paul presidency in this nation would be no different than the presidencies of Banzer and Lozada in Bolivia.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

Enrich the wealthy? Being a staunch opponent of the banker bailouts under both Bush and Obama enriches the wealthy?

EVERY federal government program is an utter failure. Social Security is bankrupt. Medicare is bankrupt. Medicaid is bankrupt, not to mention the fact that since government got invovled in health care, the costs have skyrocekted.

Take your pic. Department of Education, test scores are at an all time low, the cost of education is at an all time high and student loan debt has now surpassed that of credit card debt...

Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the Federal Reserve, the housing bubble, the value of our dollar. They destroy EVERYTHING they touch.

The welfare state, the warfare state. How many failed government programs are the tax payers expected to burden? People are SICK of it.

And now there are some who want to give the government MORE money and power, seriously?

The federal government has a hundred year track record of constant failures.

ALL of these services would be better handled on the state level, where people have more oversight, as Ron Paul has proposed.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
Americans cant afford the welfare state and we cant afford the warfare state.

Actually if we took every cent that was being funneled into the latter, and allocated it to the former, we could damn well near end poverty in this country in a generation. The trouble is, the Owners - which yes, tdoes include Ron Paul - don't want an end to poverty. After all, impoverished, unemployed people make an easy sorce of cheap labor, and cn be induced to compete against each other, thus suppressing their own wages This is the "free market" ideal held by Ron Paul - free for the people who own the markets, slavery for the people who work for those people.

Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid are bankrupt.

No, actually, they're not. The first two are under strain due to the baby boomers reaching age to collect, but you know what? The answer isn't "burn it to the ground then piss on it" like Ron Paul and most others advocate. The answer is to actually fund the goddamned thing. Same with Medicaid, which has been a frequent target of cuts, becuase, again, Ron Paul and his allies in the Legislature don't actually think poor people deserve to live.

Must be nice having all that taxpayer-paid health insurance, I guess.

The housing bubble wiped out people’s equity. Health care and education costs have skyrocketed.

How's that massive deregulation working out for you, Paul fan?

Nationalized test scores are at an all time low.

Actually just the opposite. The problem is, of course, these test scores only measure literacy and mathematics. This ties back into a concerted effort by "conservatives" in our nation - once again including Ron Paul - to dismantle and sell off our education system.

Student loan debt has now surpassed that of credit cards topping $1 trillion dollars… EVERY program the federal government touches results in failure, skyrocketing costs or bankruptcy and the American people are sick and tired of shouldering the burden.

Then Americans should stop being dumbasses who keep electing politicians who openly state that their mission in life is to make damn sure everything the government touches ends in failure. Jesus, man, it's pretty simple. When you elect men and women who say "I hate the government" they are going to screw it up. You can't goddamn complain about this stuff when you're advocating one of the very people whose made that destruction his life's work.

The burden I'm tired of shouldering are destructive do-nothings in Congress who suckle tax money out of things that could be useful, then bilk my fellow countrymen out of millions for "campaign funds," all while promising nothing but further poverty and destruction.

As Ron Paul has argued, these functions should be handled on the state level where people have much more scrutiny and control over their government.

Fine, then Paul and Perry can secede Texas from the union, so we can have an experimental test to see how these ideas pan out. I have absolutely no interest in throwing my country into a spiraling nosedive because of the free market bullcrap being peddled by some tax sponge twit from Texas, especially when I can look around the world and see so many states where this "plan" has ended up in failure and misery.

Furthermore, this cycle of spending, borrowing and accumulating debt is devaluing our currency via inflation. This is the single most detrimental factor in the life of EVERY American. Because of this vicious cycle, the purchasing power of the dollar is MUCH less now than it was just 10 years ago let alone 20, 30 or 40 years ago.

The only way people can make do with less, is if our money buys MORE.

As Ron Paul has argued, immediate cuts in spending can be made by dismantling our overseas empire and ending foreign welfare.

Paul's foreign policy is actually something I can support. It's his domestic policy that makes me want to puke. So also note that he's been very hedgy about cutting the defense budget. All those graphs and charts that show the Navy and Army and such contributing to Paul? Those count lobbying firms attached to those branches as well. It's not just individual men and women passing their $5's and $10's to the guy. You... did know that our armed forces have lobbyists, right?

Only then can we being to reform our government’s failed domestic programs and restore the purchasing power of our currency.

The only reason our domestic programs are failing is because of the constant cuts they receive. The only reform they need is funding and application. Under Paul, the answer is "burn it all to the ground, then hire private contractors to do it all at a profit for them and a loss for us"

reply to post by gladtobehere


Ron Paul is a man that would put those principals before the people of this country. That's why he's bad news.

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by TheWalkingFox

 

Enrich the wealthy? Being a staunch opponent of the banker bailouts under both Bush and Obama enriches the wealthy?

No, but privatizing public assets does. You do know how privatization works, don'cha?

EVERY federal government program is an utter failure. Social Security is bankrupt. Medicare is bankrupt. Medicaid is bankrupt, not to mention the fact that since government got invovled in health care, the costs have skyrocekted.

Funny thing about that, how when you have a system in place to care for the poor, and then a new administration enacts policies that make more poor people? The costs of the initial program will go up, since it has to deal with a larger load of people.

And again, if a business hires people with an openly stated interest in making hte business fail, then odds are that business is going to fail. Makes sense, right? So when you elect politicians who openly state htye want the government to fail, why do you seem to expect them to actually make it succeed? It's stupid, and you guys need to cut it out.

Take your pic. Department of Education, test scores are at an all time low, the cost of education is at an all time high and student loan debt has now surpassed that of credit card debt...

Again, this ties into the privatization efforts.

Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, the Federal Reserve, the housing bubble, the value of our dollar. They destroy EVERYTHING they touch.

By deregulating everything. Just like they said they would. Which is why you elected them. Do you feel smart now?

The welfare state, the warfare state. How many failed government programs are the tax payers expected to burden? People are SICK of it.

I'm all for paying my taxes to help people who need help. This is because I'm not a sociopath.

And now there are some who want to give the government MORE money and power, seriously?

A government must be able to govern. Scraping the bloated ticks off its hide will help. Reallocating funding in a manner that will benefit the people of this nation would go a long way. Unlike your apparent ideology, which calls for shooting it in the head and walking away.

The federal government has a hundred year track record of constant failures.

So let's sell it all off to Microsoft, Exxon, and Monsanto, who have a flawless track record.

ALL of these services would be better handled on the state level, where people have more oversight, as Ron Paul has proposed.

Again, let him lead by example. Paul and Perry can become the president / VP of the Restored Texas Republic, and show us how it's done.

reply to post by Evolutionsend


Succinctly put. he whole ordeal strikes me as an ego thing. "No, I don't give a good goddamn who's forced to eat dogfood to live, but I sure look good in this tricorn hat, don't I?"

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Actually social security was doing fine until congress robbed it as they are now doing to the postal service. Congress is where our problems lay. Not the Wealthy, not Wall Street and not the President but Congress.Congress is bought and paid for and they vote according to where the money will come from to get them reelected and not what is best for the nation. Everyone else is just following the system congress lays down.

Occupy Congress

reply to post by Xeven


Occupy Congress will come, in its time. Be sure of it. Right now the point is to point all the fingers at where the root of the problem is - the source of the corruption in our system. We can toss the bums out of congress until we die of exhaustion, but every new batch we install will end up every bit as rotten as the old one was, unless we deal with the corruption itself.

reply to post by gladtobehere


The idea that we can't support our own people but we can spend billions on defense just doesn't make sense anymore.

There is no reason why Americans cannot support their fellow Americans in their times of need.

Republicans have it wrong and I hate to say it, but they will NEVER "get it" because they have no empathy for others.

This is how I felt in 08 when he lost however I considered him my true president and still do. he's working on his second term now ha ha.

reply to post by filosophia


Ron Paul never had a chance in the first place.

I hate to ruin the Ron Paul fellatio party at ATS but he's getting the same damn messiah treatment that Obama got in '08. Where did that lead? What change came about? I was duped in '08 and you will be duped in '12 if you think that Paul is going to make any sweeping changes.

Ron Paul has no chance of winning, because his extreme libertarianism ''ideals'' make most people correctly view him as nothing more than a kooky old grandpa.

But, in another alternative, fantasy universe, I'd love it if he won, just so his disciples stopped getting drunk on their Ron Paul fanyboyism and received a swift reality check that the man can't walk on water, nor can he turn water into wine.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


So everyone is a shill, and we're doomed then? I'm glad we agree that we're doomed, but I think Ron Paul is the real deal, and I think that doesn't improve his chances either. Still, to laugh at people who are literally crying out for freedom and sanity of some kind is very disturbing to me.

It's far too easy to laugh at pain, than to feel it, or understand it.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


I don't know about that.

I can see a candidate that gives the voters the best of both worlds. It's too bad that more people are interested in maintaining the Democrat vs Republican rivalry.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


he had a 80% chance of being the next president a few years back but "something" happened and Obama got elected

Yes! I cant wait for President Paul to end the Dept of Ed, repack and sell all of my student debt to a private corporation where I will pay %26 interest instead of %6! Awesome!

Then, he can end medicare and social security so my grandma who has emphysema and lives in an assisted living facility can lose her coverage and move back in with us, where by we will all go bankrupt paying for her medical bills before we have to have her put down! Cool! She can even have my room!!!

Next, he can deregulate all industry so my nieces can FINALLY have lead in their toys and have to take out loans to pay for the now privatized elementary school system! WOW!

And I can go out to a bar after work, mistakenly bump into a drunk redneck who is openly carrying, and get my knee caps shot off for no reason! And I wont even have health care to cover it! SUPER EXCITED!!!

/sarcasm off

There isnt much protecting us from our new global corporate overlords. Ron Paul would sell our asses out in one fell swoop. A real democratic Government protects us from outside threats AND inside threats. Even the ones that dont wear turbans and throw bombs. You can get robbed and killed with a pen as well.

reply to post by JanJamboree


You are wrong in so many ways! actually i think our fuher obama already did what you just described... after the sarcasm off speech LOL....

he is where he belongs. agitators and squeeky wheels belong in congress

if he were elected, it would be sad to see him transform into the talking head for the military- corporate oil -company shills

they are temps, and they are all the same, doing the work of the real bosses

let him stay where he is