Crimes of OWS by Category

OWS is dumb. 75% of the people don't even know why they are down there. For # sake if you're going to fight for something at least know why you are doing it. Another clear example of why "the people" can't be trusted because all # would hit the fan. Martial Law just might do this country some good...just saying

reply to post by projectvxn


Ugh!! The same old video posted everytime

This guy doesn't represent everyone in the occupy movement.

Just the same as the crimes of a few doesn't represent the whole movement.

reply to post by projectvxn


Why are you so dismissive of my questions? Why the blatant disregard for anything I stated and just a comment about how this is the "typical response"?

I simply asked you to analyze something from a different perspective. I am not attacking you, or judging you. I have made to statements to agree or disagree with you.

Why all the anger and animosity. I simply wish to discuss this with you and attempt to either learn something and change my perspective, or have you learn something and change your perspective.

So again, knowing what we know about the media, how much of these stories, on either side, or fabricated or blown out of proportion?

~Keeper

It's funny, I was in DC last week and visited the OWS movement at McPherson Sq. I actually spent half of the night talking to these people. There were professors, there were students, there were elderly people, there were even business people and lawyers there and even retired soldiers. I really hate were this disinfo regarding the OWS movement is heading tho I must admit it was expected. It's a common disinfo strategy to throw all kinds of dirt when something you don't like is happening and manipulation agents are all over the place. actually who knows manipulation better in this world than america and american agencies?

and actually i know what i'm talking about, i am taking my PhD in Information Warfare so basicly this is the stuff that I research.

now regarding your input, have you ever been to a camp and see with your own eyes what is happening there or are you just forming your opinions based on what people publish? I suggest you head down to a camp and ask questions, see people and form your own opinion, one that is not corrupted. If I personally wouldn't have gone and see with my own eyes possibly i would think the same and belive what is in the press, however, I am positive that most of the articles you have published are just fabricated. And to be honest, it's so easy to fabricate something in this movement that they don't even have to try. The people there, most of them at least, are good folks that help everybody, so one might easily deduct that you can jump into a tent rape somebody than the girl goes to the cops and "Hey, I've been raped at OWS". Let's not forget the last manipulation and "rape charges" where a guy that used to run the IMF was charged... hmmm a lot of people belived that bull#%it also but what do you know... they were suddently dropped as soon as he resigned and we all found out how it was fabricated.

now, with a lot of people interested to transform this movement into something evil, woooow now you speak about crimes, first they were hippies untill professors and doctors and elderly people were filmed, so they were no hippies anymore now they are rapists and criminals. what will you think of next? so give me a break with your pathetic manipulation, move your lazy but to one of these movements, meet the people and then talk. oh and by the way, the police instigators filmed in oakland? what do you call that? how do you know that the rapist, or the raped woman were not agents? can you prove anything? ore are you a following sheep following blindley just cause you think that is the truth?

reply to post by projectvxn


I do know that you contribute quite a bit to threads about your feelings on the occupy movements for a variety of reasons.

My reasons for not appreciating the movements have to do with what I perceive being a lack of leadership and specific goals of these movments, not that people are gathering together to try and make changes for whatever the flavor of the day seems to be.

With that said, I do not begrudge anybody who cares to, the right to participate, because that in itself is not a crime. The movements are not a crime although crimes are taking place, just as they do in day to day life, movement or not.

I would like to take the time to thank you for your thread though, as it is a perfect example of the idea behind another thread started on ATS that everybody should take a look at.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Your thread title speaks volumes, at quite a loud level!

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Let me ask you this:

How many of those sources did YOU actually review?

How many did any of the people complaining here, actually review?

My guess is none.

Originally posted by skitzspiricy
reply to post by projectvxn

 

Ugh!! The same old video posted everytime

This guy doesn't represent everyone in the occupy movement.

edit on 7-11-2011 by skitzspiricy because: (no reason given)

I agree! That's like the videos of a tornado hitting and the news shows some toothless,shirtless,shoeless guy talking about it so we're supposed to assume that all tornado victims fit this profile.

reply to post by projectvxn


it is the responsibility of the OP the poster of said claims do verify their truth or veracity. not that of the reader.

Interesting collection of propaganda pieces you've collected there, must have taken hours of work.

Originally posted by RealAmericanPatriot
reply to post by CaDreamer

 

Jared Loughner WAS A DEMOCRAT... He VOTED for the woman he shot! And he did it because she wasn't liberal enough for him... He even worked for her campaign! How can so many people not know this???

doesnt matter his affiliation, the OP has made it clear...it happened at a Tea Party event so it must be representative of the Tea Party, to say otherwise throws major doubt into the mix as to the OP statement that these crimes represent the OWS movement since it happened at OWS events.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

Let me ask you this:

How many of those sources did YOU actually review?

How many did any of the people complaining here, actually review?

My guess is none.

I'll be totally honest and say absolutely none.
I actually don't need to either, because I already understand that the right-wing media would love for the idiots out there to believe all this rubbish, and I know that I can set up a site within three hours and publish whatever I like about any group of people and have it spread around by propagandists.
I also understand basic mathematics, and the style of this movement. They don't vet people who want to express an opinion, and there is no media puppet like Fox sorting out the most intelligent people from the emotive and vociferous before running a story in support. They do the opposite to tarnish it.

People could put up a thousand links to sites making some kind of unfounded claim and it won't come close to watching what is ACTUALLY happening on the ground at these protests.
Intelligent people no longer trust the corporate media to present the truth, and they understand that just because a person on a site says something that actually doesn't make it true. These people visit a protest for themselves and actually talk to the protesters. They watch the live feeds. They read the blogs by those who visit and take part. They don't blindly trust some random site with obvious political agendas.

All of those intelligent people see through all the right-wing propaganda and media manipulation and see it for what it is. And these intelligent people also recognize the propagandists when they see them too, and they point and laugh.

------->

That was me pointing and laughing.

reply to post by projectvxn


I'm not sure you detractors are whining quite loud enough yet...

The Tea Party was blamed for his actions, however, by an overzealous left wing media. Before the bodies were even cold as a matter of fact.

Interesting, so the left wing media is wrong about the TPM but the right wing media is right about Occupy? I can't say nor can anyone not present at times and places of alleged crimes taking place...I can't say that they didn't or won't happen. I can say that it is has been shown that right wing media has made up stories or slant the facts.

One major fact being slanted is that victims are being told not to report crimes. Myself and others have shown video and articles proving those are not true, including statements of victims reporting crimes to the police and being told to bring it to their GA's.

The crimes mentioned are very real and the assaults on women in Zuccotti park have gotten so bad that the "campers" have now constructed a special "Safe Space" Tent for women there.

After at least two confirmed incidents of sexual abuse at Zuccotti Park, the demonstrators of Occupy Wall Street have set up a military tent that they believe will better protect the women among their mass. NY1's Amanda Farinacci filed the following report.

A tattered cardboard sign hangs outside a 16-feet military tent that is the newest addition to Zuccotti Park's growing residential community. It reads "Women's Safe Space," and it's meant to address what some fear may be a growing problem for women at the Occupy Wall Street demonstration.

"A lot of complaints about assaults and sexual harassment throughout the park, and a lot of women are not feeling safe to sleep throughout the park," said protester Sparkle Veronica Taylor.

The tent went up Friday after police confirmed at least two incidents of sexual assault in the Lower Manhattan park.

The confirmed cases mentioned are only the ones brought to the attention of the police. I would imagine that there are many more of these cases that have been handled internally by the OWS self policing agents. Hence the "Safe Space" we see now.

Of course some in the park have the nerve to blame the police with one hand while attacking them with the other. Its a no win for the police.

Some protesters have blamed law enforcement for taking a hands-off approach to crimes occurring in the park, but others believe the community can police itself.

manhattan.ny1.com...

And this is just Zuccotti Park.....

reply to post by projectvxn


Explanation: When you have shown the list of assorted crimes commited by the USA and its military forces around the world for the past 250yrs, so that I have something to validly compare the OWS set of crimes with, then I would agree that there is an issue worth dealing with!

Or would you prefer me to list all the crimes I can come up with?

Personal Disclosure: Nationalistic pride ..comes before the FALL!

Does the USA and the USA military have your full support?

Or does the term hypocrite ring loudly in your head much?

reply to post by jibeho


The crimes may be very real, but to blame OWS as a whole for them as the OP has is wrong.

These people committing crimes may not even be part of OWS at all, for all any of us know they are just opportunists.... Like you get everywhere.

When someone heads along to a music festival and gets their tent robbed, or beaten up, or raped. Are we to now blame and condemn everyone at the concert for allowing this to happen?

Originally posted by skitzspiricy
reply to post by jibeho

 

The crimes may be very real, but to blame OWS as a whole for them as the OP has is wrong.

These people commiting crimes may not even be part of OWS at all, for all any of us know they are just opportunists.... Like you get everywhere.

When someone heads along to a music festival and gets their tent robbed, or beaten up, or raped. Are we to now blame and condemn everyone at the concert for allowing this to happen?

edit on 7-11-2011 by skitzspiricy because: (no reason given)

If these were isolated incidents I could probably agree with you but this problem is spread amongst the Occupy movement across the nation and cannot simply be written off and blamed on a couple of loose cannons.

Many radical groups have signed on with OWS and have not been called out by the weak leadership of OWS. They are making no effort to distance themselves from these groups and as a result the whole movement will get painted with broad brush.

The incidents are escalating as demonstrated in Oakland and recently in DC when innocent people attending a conservative conference were literally locked into the convention hall, verbally assaulted and even pushed to the ground in a couple of cases.

We are seeing the results of the lack of focus and leadership in this group. The anarchists now have anarchy within their cadre as everyone with a gripe or a cause tries to climb on the bandwagon.

The movement has jumped the shark and is beginning to collapse onto itself. Keep it up because it will only get worse.

reply to post by projectvxn

Whoa: Occupy Baltimore Doesn't Want Police Involved for Rape
Woman Says She Was Raped at #OccupyBaltimore, Begs for Protest to Be Shut Down

In a video from FOX news, the woman states she was told to go to a local hospital. Also per the video, an organizer when directly asked, refutes claims of telling victims not to report crimes.

Per your linked article:

Though we do not encourage the involvement of the police in our community, the survivor has every right, and the support of Occupy Baltimore, to report the abuse to the appropriate law enforcement.

Occupy Baltimore began October 4th.

Police Investigating Possible Sexual Assault Of Teen At Occupy Dallas

Occupy Dallas organizers said they’ll implement a 10 p.m. curfew and check the identification of anyone seen walking the grounds after that time.

The Dallas Occupation began over two weeks ago.

Woman raped in tent at Glasgow George Square protest camp

Per the video, the campers have asked for help and are putting the Occupation on hold until the police have carried out their investigation. This Occupation began October 15th.

My point is, that crime happens and it sucks and it is always going to suck no matter the circumstances. Occupy is a movement that involves camping out in public spaces and most of the ones that have been cited in the OP have been going on for weeks and some for nearly 2 months. Sadly, that does make the situation and the people vulnerable to predators.

My question to you is, why are you exploiting the victims of violent crime in order to further your agenda of demonizing Occupy? Weren't you just a few days ago accusing our outrage of 2 veterans being the victims of excessive force as being exploitive?

reply to post by projectvxn


Again dismissive of my questions to material that you posted. I see that you aren't attempting to garner productive debate, you simply want to disagree with anybody who doesn't subscribe to your idea of the OWS.

What is the point of this thread if you aren't going to respond to questions or concerns about the material you posted? Isn't your job to defend what you have posted and discuss the opinions of others regarding the topic?

I don't know how you can expect to change anybody's mind or enlighten folk on ATS or otherwise, with such a condescending, obstructive and dismissive attitude.

I suppose that is your perogative, and you may do as you please, but I would highly recommend entertaining the ideas and opinions of others and responding to their honest and good intended questions.

~Keeper

Dear tothetenthpower,

I feel exposed, not really falling into either camp. On the one hand, pro-OWSers are correct in saying that there is insufficient evidence to prove that the movement is criminal. On the other hand, the idea that there is no more disturbance of the peace or crimes in OWS than anywhere else is untenable.

My difficulty is the reluctance of pro-OWSers to say "Jeez, we've got a lot of bad apples." After that truth has been faced, why not ask the question, "How did we get this riff-raff?" Is it (as I believe) just the sort of thing that happens to a cramped crowd, sitting around for two months with nothing to do? Or is there something in the movement that encourages people to commit offenses? Or is there some other reason? Once we know the cause, we can look for cures.

And, tothetenthpower, I don't believe that all of the questions asked have been "honest and good intended." Even some of the pro-OWSers here have shown a condescending, obstructive and dismissive attitude.

It's sad, but there seem to be some topics even ATS can't accomodate.

Originally posted by charles1952
Dear tothetenthpower,

I feel exposed, not really falling into either camp. On the one hand, pro-OWSers are correct in saying that there is insufficient evidence to prove that the movement is criminal. On the other hand, the idea that there is no more disturbance of the peace or crimes in OWS than anywhere else is untenable.

I'm very much on the fense myself honestly. And yes we cannot say that they are all evil, or that none of them are.

My difficulty is the reluctance of pro-OWSers to say "Jeez, we've got a lot of bad apples." After that truth has been faced, why not ask the question, "How did we get this riff-raff?" Is it (as I believe) just the sort of thing that happens to a cramped crowd, sitting around for two months with nothing to do? Or is there something in the movement that encourages people to commit offenses? Or is there some other reason? Once we know the cause, we can look for cures.

I think that people who just wanna watch the world burn, will use large gatherings of people, such as the OWS protests to carry out their anarchist and destructive agenda. I dont' think it's encouraged by the movement itself, but by mob mentality.

The only cure is by having those who want to be peacefull confront these provacateurs and work with the police to remove them for their safety. That however would take leardership and OWS seems to be about not having any one person or group represent you. It's very fractured at the moment and that makes it hard to accomplish anything other than being a general nuisance with some good talking points.

And, tothetenthpower, I don't believe that all of the questions asked have been "honest and good intended." Even some of the pro-OWSers here have shown a condescending, obstructive and dismissive attitude.

It's sad, but there seem to be some topics even ATS can't accomodate.

Of course there are those who wish to paint this on the other side as agressively as possible, it's to be expected. My comments didn't mean to view the other side as not having it's faults in terms of distraction. I just see an abundance of it in these threads as of late on both sides.

Ps: Call me Tenth , much easier than typing out the full thing

~Keeper