Do Desires cause Suffering?

reply to post by Manula


To rationalize is not loving, you can not rationalize with love.
See and hear only, this is love.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


You can love and assess a situation.
Love is an emotion, you can be with that emotion while living your everyday life, you have to use your head in the everyday life and still love life.
IMHO

reply to post by Manula


You do not need love for anything.
You are love.
There is only love in this moment.
Fear and hate are born of time and time does not exist except as an image (in thought), an imagination.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Yes we are love but our work is to find out who we already are and we have to see it in the everyday life otherwise the animal (ego) in us will take over and that's when the SHTF. (s..it hits the fan)

reply to post by Manula


The work is to find out what you are not. When you find out what you are not, you will know what you are.

youtu.be...

Ego is not the animal in you, that is an insult to animals.
The ego is the human in you, remove the human and you will be left with being.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


The human body is an animal, a rational animal, whats wrong with saying this?
I love animals, i love my dog, i love my animal part, i just try not to let it take control of my actions.
I don't see the insult, im sorry.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


taking words for personal use, prove the liar u r in all whatever u pretend meaning to preach others

while revealing the liar u r dont do any to the fact of negative living you are to right and truth

it is amazing to constat that what rule all is the care for superficial forms as one lie

reply to post by absolutely


Again i do not understand the words you string together, it makes no sense to me. If you are against 'me' then i agree.

reply to post by Manula


they reveal being liars, of course time exist it is now reality, which is the objective all every second differently
only liars that mean clearly evil life out of truth knowledge rights abuse, invent what doesnt exist at all anywhere, showing how they are never but subjective powers life one

of course ego is from being animals that use to live from others free giving, so any perspective of another make the human the animal he was expectation of free hand

did we ever choose to be in animals conditions ? surely never, how that fact is our fault and responsability alone by justifying conscious slavery to animal conditions too

reply to post by absolutely


There are no angels or demons.
There is only THIS.

No true word has ever been spoken.
The truth is wordless.

reply to post by Manula


You said if the ego (and you called it the animal part) was left in charge the SHTF.
Well i can see that animals seem to do this life thing without the stress and negativity that humans have. In fact i see that animals know joy and happiness, peace and contentment.
Animals don't rationize. They are being driven by the intelligence of the universe. Everything is being driven by the intelligence of the universe as one total seemless movement, all occuring now.
Humans are not separate from this but they 'THINK' they are.
This 'thinking' is nothing more than noise. It is consciousness hiding from itself.
It is because we try to do life that it is so hard, do animals look like they are trying to do life?
We may believe the narration on the nature programmes 'the struggle for survival' script, but that is written and spoken by a human who believes what he is saying.
Animals enjoy life and we can learn from them.
Cats are great Zen masters, be with them and they will show the way.

reply to post by Bluesma



Yup, you understood my position well.
There's not much else I can add,
since the thread is going in a place
where I don't have enough information to
comment. Adieu.

Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Manula

 

You do not need love for anything.
You are love.
There is only love in this moment.
Fear and hate are born of time and time does not exist except as an image (in thought), an imagination.

Sounds like you've been to the TOAD (temple of awakening divinity) and found Adi Da before he started taking himself much too seriously.

Good for you!

reply to post by Itisnowagain


stop preaching for evil lies, animals do not exist by definition they are things, u cant mean that to humans too and call urself enlightened by any concept of right or truth

when a still possible point exist while having an objective perspective on any, it is called freedom right that belongs all to truth realizations to existence ends

as u should at least know, that animals barely recognize their own bodies existing, they function through positive sense of desires and reactions to others for positive life

which again prove how life is to animals beings, the sense of being by seeing another being, to what can never make the abstraction necessary to realize that its being is also the objective fact its sees

Babies and children who suffer physiologically do not have any desires other than to eat, sleep, be warm, and be cared for. Indeed, when these basic needs are not met, the child then continues on to suffer psychologically in addition to their physiological suffering.

Desire is not the same as necessity. I can say without a doubt that most of the "suffering" I've dealt with as an adult came from needs which were not met as a child or young adult.

That said, I can also see when I'm fixating on something negative and, thereby, causing my own suffering. At these times, it is a desire that things had gone differently that cause me to feel pain and suffering.

sometimes you just have to wait,
be patient
then "as of a sudden" the wave will begin to fold,
thats what i believe

might be naive and stupid but sometime you just have to let people take their course ,
if all seams as it should be things go as they should ,

someone said a a mantra years ago , " if you book em , they will come , "

id concur and say do you bids well and they will eventualy slap you silly ,

regrets are always , without them direction is futile,

reply to post by zerbot565


Interesting response, but it is your Avatar that I can't keep my eyes off of. Very nice!

Adi Da on desire: www.beezone.com...

DEVOTEE: You have said this action takes the form of identification, differentiation and desire. In a concrete situation, what happens?
FRANKLIN: The ordinary sense that a man has, sitting, walking, is of separate existence. He doesn't ordinarily say to himself, "I am this body, I am this mind, I am this, I am that." No mental process goes on that is itself the communication of this sense to him. He already has this sense. He wakes up alive, he moves in bodily terms, it just seems very obvious. And there is the. sense of some sort of subtle limit, size, shape, or difference. That is identification. It is called the "ego."
Differentiation is all the forms, all the qualities of cognition or mind, in which everything becomes an extension of this same thing that he has assumed. Everything becomes a "this." Look at this, look at this. Suddenly, there are endless planes of significance. The very structure of his thought is "this, this, this." Spontaneously, everything is already multiplied, distinct. Having already, spontaneously acquired this sense of separate existence, and while already perceiving, thinking a range of multiplicity, of separate natures, forms and forces, he moves. And that motion is desire. This separate one moves. He conceives a realm of multiplicity in which to move, because he is separate. There is something, even a world, that he is up against, so he moves. And that movement is desire. An endless adventure is possible when these three assumptions are made. And that adventure is what people are doing. All men, all ordinary beings who are karmically manifested in the material worlds, are living this adventure. Each one lives it with different qualities, different circumstances, different ranges of subjectivity, but all essentially are living it on the armature of this same structure, this same form, this same complex of assumptions. There present state, "me," separate, with everything around me moving. What you ordinarily perceive to be your condition at any moment is the best example of it. Now all adventures, all human adventures are possible from that point of view, and all are built on that point of view. And that point of view is the dilemma. All accomplishments take place within the framework of that dilemma. Therefore, all pursuits, all searches, all activities, all accomplishments, spiritual and mundane, are possible adventures within that same framework. It is not that the spiritual ones are better than the mundane ones. They are all the same adventure. And, of course, the dilemma and its search are manifested between human beings as all kinds of conflicts and preferences. They are reflected at every level of awareness. The waking life, what we cognize to be the ordinary waking state, is a continual drama of these three activities of identification, differentiation and desire. The "causal" being, which is also the seat of deep sleep, manifests as the activity of identification, or separate self sense, through contraction of the causal center on the right side of the chest.18 The subtle body, which is also the seat or condition of dreams, is the internal or subtle organ, and it manifests essentially as the elaboration or differentiation of thought, feeling, energy and sensation. This is done by contraction of the subtle mechanism, which has many centers or functions in the spine and brain. Then the waking state adds this movement of desire or manifest vitality, the descending and "frontal" life. The traditional searches are an attempt to return to the simpler origin. When they turn inward in the waking state, away from desire, this is religion. When they turn inward from subtle life and dreams to forms of subtlety or light beyond mind, this is spirituality or yoga. The intuitive methods of the would be Jnani or Buddha turn beyond life and subtlety into the causal ground. But in fact all of these are simply ways of going from one state into another, moving from one condition to another that is relatively more subtle, or relatively more free of conditions.

Adi Da continued:

None of these functional movements is the Truth itself. But when a man comprehends his own adventure, and his search occupies him less and less, when his suffering becomes the only real possibility for him, when suffering or dilemma becomes his essential condition, regardless of his state, waking, dreaming, or sleeping, then there is the possibility of real intelligence, of spontaneous re-cognition, of understanding, of Truth. 18 See The Knee of Listening for Franklins' descriptions of that aspect of the sponteneous internal yogic process which deals with the "causal" center and its opening. The "natural" state is neither waking, dreaming nor sleeping. It cannot be identified with the three characteristic functional conditions. It has been called turiya, the "fourth" state, beyond the three common states. When it is enjoyed perfectly, this has been called turiyatita, "beyond the fourth." Therefore, one who understands is awake while only waking, awake while dreaming, awake while sleeping. He always enjoys this simple intensity that is Reality prior to the contraction of functional life. He has become humorous. Mortal seriousness has fallen from him. I don't mean that he is always giggling, but the subtle aggravation, contraction, that mystery of his own suffering is absent. He falls through it, always.
DEVOTEE: Are you saying that desire has to stop?
FRANKLIN: One of the typical methods within the great search is the attempt to obstruct or stop desire, because it is a very fundamental area in which the dilemma is conceived. The dilemma is most obvious at the level of desire, at the level of life. The seeker either exploits his desire or resists it, but neither one of these strategies is appropriate. Both of them depend upon the dilemma itself. Desire itself, the movement of life itself, is not the dilemma.
DEVOTEE: Desire arising out of identification, and differentiation. Isn't that the problem?
FRANKLIN: That quality as oneself is the dilemma, but that same quality lived from the point of view of the Self or Truth is without dilemma. Thus, in one who understands, there still is the apparently individuated being, there still is the capacity for subtle life, mind and all its forms, there still is the capacity for movement, which is desire. His appearance is not changed. He remains ordinary, but he lives from the point of view of the Self, as the Self. But where consciousness itself becomes identification, differentiation and desire, this is the dilemma, because it is not true. Consciousness is not that. The sense of that is the dilemma. And it is nothing more than that. So the attempt to remove desire is a secondary reaction to this dilemma. The dilemma has already occurred, so anything done to the function of desire is secondary. You can do anything you like to your desire, but nothing you can do to your desire becomes realization, understanding, or Truth. All this doing to desire is itself desire, a reaction to desire as dilemma. When dilemma is understood, there is no motivation to do anything about desire itself. Why should you want to do anything about desire? What is wrong with desire? It will seem to you at times that you need to block desire. It will seem at other times that you need to enjoy it. It will change from hour to hour, but your occupation must turn from desire to the dilemma itself. And that is the focus of Satsang. The preoccupation with your methods, your ways of dealing with your search, is fruitless. The more you try, the clearer this becomes. Each "way" is just another strategy, another form of experiencing that tends at last to reinforce the dilemma. Each way has its satisfactions. The libertine has his satisfactions, and his liabilities. The one who pursues sainthood has his satisfactions, and his liabilities. Both only reinforce this dilemma. When at last they fall out of their search into their suffering, from within their suffering they will begin to intuit Truth.

reply to post by RRokkyy


u dont mean truth that is why u mean limited things life to justify

truth is always the most obvious and most simple logic left which is still absolutely not reversed

humans each incarnate the same idea, they dont have to do any for it is all set for and done already

they must in form and substance incarnate individual free objective existence, i repeat there is nothing to do for nor needed, that is how most humans enjoy it even by knowing their end, from what it is done all so there is no true present free sense

now some are truly relatively aware free out of all their conditions, what u call souls is not that, souls are also done all as things, since souls are what left from else existence so never the present existing one
so it is easy to traficate the mind in lies about previous life or lives means, that is how all souls are things already done

who are relatively truly aware free out their conditions, are simply a plus to their conditions always in absolute terms as a matter of fact existing true right, so it is like geniune free sense that even by doing nothing is present positively around
since all humans are done for the idea of individual free objective existence rules by gods evil life powers and superior intelligence free absolute realizations meaning humans conscious to fake existence for nothing freedom as objectively true,
then those ones that are truly right free are attacked directly the most to force the nothing end upon their free rights

it is horrible how horrible the situation is