Why I debunk the chemtrail myth

Originally posted by mazzle
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Yay thank you!!

Interesting the experiment in England dont you think, that no one knew about it at the time but do now?

Dont you think it could be the same case with this subject?

I don't think it can be, no. Firstly, the world was very different then, and British secrecy was always very, very tight with the aviation press and the "aviation correspondents" of the nationals under very strict control compared to the way information can be spread nowadays, with the Internet and mobile phones and texting etc for communication instantly, as well as globally.

Secondly, you would be comparing a small scale, localised military operation with the daily routine of every commercial operator in the developed world, if the photos snd claims are anything to go by. I don't think there is any similarity at all.

reply to post by BillfromCovina


Thank you, but not really everything. I agree that you need the humidity and temperature to be right, surely there is a region in between widespread cirrus coverage and clear blue sky where the conditions are very close but something needs to kick it off, like a passing jet?

What do you make of WW2 pilots accounts where they described leaving a contrail In a clear air that thickens out and spreads to cover the sky?

If a Spitfire can do that is it not likely that the effect from such as a 737 or larger will be even more pronounced?.

DW, I haven't forgotten my promise last night. The sky is clear this morning, but the couple of jets that have passed over so far are not leaving persisting trails, maybe later.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


My main reason not to believe chemtrails is simply that there are far more efficient ways to poison people: water supply, food supply, etc. Chemicals dispersed in the air get diluted real fast. Whether or not there is a conspiracy to poison people I don't know, but if there was, I would think it would be fairly efficient and covert.

-rrr

Originally posted by CaDreamer
to all you believers... if chemtrails are making us sick...why is life expectancy worldwide increasing 50% of children born today will live to 100.

oh and BTW that FBI guy is nuts...

Well that part of your argument fails because it is a well known fact that:

Life expectancy to drop for first time in 1000 years

That link is from Australia, but many other developed nations also have this problem. They blame it on obesity, so it may not be the chemtrails doing it. But to say that life expectancy is proof that chemtrails don't exist is absurd.

I have seen Ted Gunderson been slandered on ATS. What proof do you have that he is nuts? All I ever came across was that he seemed to be a very credible person.

Originally posted by BillfromCovina

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
All you folks coming in here to help me over my failure to believe the chemtrial myth - if you are going to present some evidence, please try to check & see if it's something new.

Because, honestly, I've seen an awful lot of it, and none of it has been convincing to date.

I've seen What in the world are they spraying, I've seen hundreds of contrails on YT that someone says are chemtrails & can't prove why. I've seen Ted Gunderson, I've seen tanker enemy, I've seen Arizona and California Skywatch, I've seen high barium levels in Mohave residents, Clare Sweeny, Rense, Carnicon, AirCrap (never a better name for a site!!).

And every single bit of all of it I discount as hearsay, speculation, bad science, outright mistakes and sometimes probably lies.

And if all you're going to do is say "you are wrong because I say so" or "it's been proved that chemtrails exist" or whatever other unsubstantiated assertion, then I hope that makes you feel better for getting it off your chest - because that's all the effect it will have.

I'm not really expecting any better ...but that's something I wanted to get off MY chest

You talk about bad science but you are the one who constantly tries to present it. You do not pay attention to detail and do not understand the science. You also lie. When me and Phage were debating this subject, you got yourself involved and it was obvious that you could not follow what was going on. In the end, Phage had to admit that the science was not so clear and to making some mistakes. You tried to say that you had comparable data and pictures from LA during WW2. I asked you for it and you then tried to state I was being unfair to you. I then asked you for pictures and data from even the 80's and you could not present it. I think you then ran off after you were handled and started another thread on chemtrails. I am still waiting.

edit on 4-11-2011 by BillfromCovina because: clarity

I'm only on page 2 but I hope this gets addressed before the end of the thread.

I am interested in reading that thread you mentioned, would you mind linking me?

Originally posted by CaDreamer
to all you believers... if chemtrails are making us sick...why is life expectancy worldwide increasing 50% of children born today will live to 100.

oh and BTW that FBI guy is nuts...

You can't just make up nonsense that like that without posting a source. It looks ridiculous. Oh, and BTW, you should probably source something supporting your opinion about the "FBI guy" as well. I'm interested in reading about both.


Cheers,
Strype

Again, Who said the spraying is for nefarious reasons? IF they spray,and don't admit it? Then WOULD they tell you about long term side effects? Would they even know or care?

I've said it before, I have NO CLUE whats going on when they spray or why. It's NOT cloud seeding. Different airline does that here in Tahoe.

Is it to protect us from harmful ultraviolet rays? dunno
Block ground movement from satellites? dunno (We have a TON of military stuff within 200 miles of here)
Sedate us to slow us down? Why?
Is fluorination in the water a real conspiracy or a joke? When were we included in on the joke?

To dismiss chemtrails or geoengineering as a hallucination that can be explained away,some of you obviously haven't seen when they COAT the sky. It's a COATING like a primer of paint on the skyline.

Once you see it,you KNOW the difference. It's not the same as a "flight route verses flight pattern" DUH.

Its an intentional COATING. And No, I have no clue who, or why, or what.

Ever been through Vegas Airport? Go look at the skyline there. Somedays they spray,some days they don't.
Once I pointed it out to a friend of mine who lives there,he GET'S it. He calls to tell me when they're spraing asking ME wtf is it?

Like I know?

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


please reread my post you apparently didn't understand what "worldwide" meant. cherry picking single nations to debunk a worldwide statistic is disingenuous and naughty troll behavior.

can someone say strawman?

Originally posted by CaDreamer
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

please reread my post you apparently didn't understand what "worldwide" meant. cherry picking single nations to debunk a worldwide statistic is disingenuous and naughty troll behavior.

can someone say strawman?

Thanks, never been called a troll before

I clearly said that it was an Australian link. And I still stand correct when I say that for you to claim chemtrails are fake because of world wide life expectancy may rise is ridiculous. Nice deflection though, good troll tactic

reply to post by BillfromCovina

You have no ability to prove that what someone says is a chemtrail is a contrail. No matter what evidence they provide to you

What evidence has anyone provided to prove that a contrail is a "chemtrail"?

Originally posted by Strype

Originally posted by CaDreamer
to all you believers... if chemtrails are making us sick...why is life expectancy worldwide increasing 50% of children born today will live to 100.

oh and BTW that FBI guy is nuts...

You can't just make up nonsense that like that without posting a source. It looks ridiculous. Oh, and BTW, you should probably source something supporting your opinion about the "FBI guy" as well. I'm interested in reading about both.
Cheers,
Strype

I have posted numerous times about that guy. He has made claims like children are kidnapped and flown to the Area 51 for organ harvesting, that USAF aircraft are used to fly children to Congressional orgies.

He chemtrail claims are also impossible, but in true chemtrailer style, none of them ever try to verify what Teddy claimed, or to even follow up on it. They just take it as gospel.

Ted claims that Ft Sill, has a fleet of chemtrail planes. However, there is not even a runway long enough there to support large aircraft like that. He also claims there are secret aircraft flown by the Nebraska Air National Guard in Lincoln. the Nebraska ANG flies out of a PUBLIC airport, with 8 KC-135 tankers that are out in full view for anyone to see out there.

Chemtrailers should do a better job verifying claims made from their own side, rather than just take something as truth just because someone who used to work ine the government said it.

Originally posted by MathiasAndrew
reply to post by firepilot

 

In addition to longer life expectancy, air quality is continually getting better too..

Are you freaking kidding me? Air quality is getting better you say? LMAO

You must work for Battelle .... Better for who and in comparison to what? That statement can only be true on a small scale localized level. Where some large industrial polluter was shut down and put out of business.

The rate at which the air quality of the planet is getting worse may be slowing down but that is a far cry from it getting better.

edit on 6-11-2011 by MathiasAndrew because: edit text

Yes, it is getting better. You can find that online rather easy, particulate matter is less, there are far more pollution controls on power plants, cars have better emission controls and engines run cleaner.

Places like Los Angeles, had far worse air quality in the 1960s. Face it, we can find data and scientific studies that show that air quality is getting better in developed countries. Places like China have it worse, but in the US and Europe, its definitely better

reply to post by niceguybob


This is an interesting read. Something I am leaning towards as to the reason we see so much coating of the skies....

More effective scatterers can be realized by employing that subset of materials which exhibit high
electrical conductivity. In this special case, electrons may be separated from their original locations
by any distance, and it is the magnitude of the optical-frequency current carried by these electrons
that characterize the effectiveness of such scattering materials – which are generally metals.
Employed near-optimally, tens of thousands of tons of high-conductivity metal – roughly 1% of the
required mass of dielectric materials – are required to scatter 1% of the Earth's total insolation; the
corresponding costs are $0.07-0.14 billion/year

www.chemtrails911.com...

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

So it is my contention that if there was "something going on" then I would know about it.

That is an abusrd assumption. How many people knew of the SR71 during its years of development? How many people knew anything about any of the stealth projects during development? I and others are supposed to believe someone in the civilian aviation industry would somehow know something is going on when cleary the vast majority in the militarry had no idea?

I know you like to cling to the assumption that all believers in the possiblity of chemtrails think they come from civilian aircraft and look like contrails but we both know thats not true for all "chemmies" as you like to call us. Many of us believe the military and their R&D might be playing around in the sky based on past projects.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
You need to learn more before you falsely condem millions of people in the aviation industry.

So some yahoo claims pilots are poisioning us and you take it to heart and think the whole industry is being condemed.

I didn't think you took the opinion of yahoo's and the people who support them that seriously but I guess I was wrong.

Originally posted by FreeSpeaker

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

So it is my contention that if there was "something going on" then I would know about it.

That is an abusrd assumption. How many people knew of the SR71 during its years of development? How many people knew anything about any of the stealth projects during development? I and others are supposed to believe someone in the civilian aviation industry would somehow know something is going on when cleary the vast majority in the militarry had no idea?

I know you like to cling to the assumption that all believers in the possiblity of chemtrails think they come from civilian aircraft and look like contrails but we both know thats not true for all "chemmies" as you like to call us. Many of us believe the military and their R&D might be playing around in the sky based on past projects.

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
You need to learn more before you falsely condem millions of people in the aviation industry.

So some yahoo claims pilots are poisioning us and you take it to heart and think the whole industry is being condemed.

I didn't think you took the opinion of yahoo's and the people who support them that seriously but I guess I was wrong.

You can not compare the F-117, which were developed in secret and then test flown out of an isolated USAF facililty out in Groom Lake Nevada, only at night and in that immediate area. The SR-71 was publicly announced, and it flew for its first flight out of Palmdale California, and that was not secret at all.

So we are going on 12+ years of fear mongers going on about chemtrails, with no evidence, no photographs of spray planes, no insiders, and just bad science and faked photos?

Remember, these are aircraft supposedly numerous all around the daytime skies, over major cities and flying into all the airports and around in public airspace. How exactly does that make a great comparison to the F-117?

Originally posted by firepilot

You can not compare the F-117, which were developed in secret and then test flown out of an isolated USAF facililty out in Groom Lake Nevada, only at night and in that immediate area. The SR-71 was publicly announced, and it flew for its first flight out of Palmdale California, and that was not secret at all.

The SR-71 was a secret during its development, it was not annouced to the world that the USA is now making a super stealth to spy on its enemies.

I think arguing over the capabilites of the US military to keep secrets is pointless becuase I could post examples of things that were kept secret all day long.

Originally posted by firepilot
Remember, these are aircraft supposedly numerous all around the daytime skies, over major cities and flying into all the airports and around in public airspace.

I don't believe that for a second as I have said time and time again. If, and I do mean if, there is anything happening I believe it would be based out of a military base and happen at night. It has already been mentioned that with todays technology anything can end up on YT in a minute so I don't believe any secret projects would be up in the sky during daylight hours and over heavily populated areas.

Originally posted by Argyll

What evidence has anyone provided to prove that a contrail is a "chemtrail"?

Apparently they can tell by just looking.

To the rest of us they look and behave like normal contrails. But that's because we're just stupid and ignorant. Or part of the 80 year old conspiracy. Or maybe space aliens. Or summat.

I'm pretty sure the government already said they were real. Their excuse was: it's a substitute for the ozone layer.

reply to post by MrUncreated

I'm pretty sure the government already said they were real. Their excuse was: it's a substitute for the ozone layer.

If that's the case, why the debate? All you need to do is post a link to the video of the press conference where they announced this. Or at least a newspaper article. Anything.