One Cause For Our Anger; Corporate Welfare

reply to post by nenothtu


The problem is that writing to elected officials and voting are an exercise in futility. The game is rigged. Both parties serve the billionaires, not you. Voting makes absolutely no change at all. Ds and Rs are puppets that serve the same agenda while battling each other over petty issues thus reinforcing the illusion of choice you seem to hold on to so dearly. Once you realize this, the ows protests will make a hell of a lot more sense.

reply to post by Harte


Let Verizon go! They're MAKING MONEY from the IRS getting millions in rebates... They're not paying a damn dime in taxes we're paying them. Did you not read the article? Good grief.

reply to post by Insearchofthetruth1987


Top politicians are millionaires already and it's highly probable they have MUCH more hidden away in overseas accounts. These people are insatiable in their greed. Do you think raising their salaries will make any difference? Did you know, congressmen/women are above inside trading laws? Right there is an invitation to become part of the 1% right off the bat. Milionaire/billionaire politicians are supposed to look out for the interest of the middle class and poor? Goes beyond all logic. They control our money under penalty of violence (arrest/imprisonment) and dominate the election process through electronic/hacked voting machines, unlimited funds for campaigns from undisclosed donors, etc. The people are awakening to the sad reality that we are nothing more than slaves ruled by fear, lies and violence. For the sake of humanity world wide we must unite.

Originally posted by Kali74
reply to post by GringoViejo

 

I agree about the government at least in addition to protesting banks and corporations, but it's like a 3 headed hydra, the time to protest the government will come.

WRONG.

The Time to protest the Government is NOW!!!!

That is OWS's problem. No real credibility. None the "Average" American wants to get behind !
Lets talk about the FED. That CONGLOMERATE has had its hands in the pockets of the taxpayers since its inception.It also destroyed America . Why not protest the FED? Its has its headquarters in DC. The Hydra lives in DC ! Its comical,at best to believe that ANY demands will be met,with so many voices,in so many city's. If corruption is a HYDRA,then OWS is the snack it feed from. Think about it.

reply to post by sonnny1


Occupy only started just over a month ago.

I actually see no demands from the OWS movements as a smart move.

You cant attack what you dont have info on. Cant justify strong arm action but the movement sits in their faces demanding change fairness.

The public debate the unfairness and who is to blame and the movement grows.

Originally posted by wirehead

Of course, if things got to that point, then we'd see if they'd just hand over the reigns of power peacefully. As soon as the people pose a real threat to the entrenched power, I wager you'll see a backlash.

Backlash always accompanies change of any sort, whether for the better or for the worse. It's nothing to be feared, it just IS. I've been unfortunate enough to witness several deaths, and a few births. In both cases, there is almost always a lot of screaming and thrashing.

Those symptoms are the backlash that accompanies either event, and it's hard to tell just from the noise which is occurring. The only thing you can do is ride through the pains of change, and see what is delivered on the other side.

Originally posted by Snoopy1978
reply to post by nenothtu

 

The problem is that writing to elected officials and voting are an exercise in futility.

Unlike screaming at buildings in the cold on Wall Street?

The game is rigged. Both parties serve the billionaires, not you.

Un-rig it. If you don't like the candidates the major parties field, vote for another, or start your own. In 10 years, they too will be playing the game with the rich and famous if you don't hold them to account. If you CAN hold them to account, why can you not hold the ones already there to account?

What you are arguing in favor of is a dictatorship if you won't make your vote count for something, even if it is a vote of "no confidence" or "none of the above". Whining that your vote means nothing while at the same time not doing anything to make it count for something, is an invitation to dictatorship, by default.

Screaming at buildings on Wall Street does nothing at all to affect the validity of your vote.

Voting makes absolutely no change at all. Ds and Rs are puppets that serve the same agenda while battling each other over petty issues thus reinforcing the illusion of choice you seem to hold on to so dearly. Once you realize this, the ows protests will make a hell of a lot more sense.

No where have I insinuated that D or R are the only choices. I realized the complicity of the two major parties quite a long time ago, and the OWS protests STILL make no sense, as they are doing NOTHING to change that duplicity in the major parties.

You'd have to aim at DC for that to happen.

reply to post by nenothtu

You'd have to aim at DC for that to happen.

That takes time, OWS only began recently. There is talk of a march to DC but nothing official yet, could just be talk. Time will tell.

Originally posted by Kali74

That takes time, OWS only began recently. There is talk of a march to DC but nothing official yet, could just be talk. Time will tell.

That would be a better move. It won't likely happen this winter, because of the statement getting lost in the weather, but if it were up to me, I'd do it and time it for late next spring, when the campaign season was getting geared up, and make it plain that if the mess wasn't fixed, the politicians would be out of a job, post haste.

Throw out support for whichever candidates pledged repair of the system, and hold their feet to the fire on that pledge, making it plain that if they didn't start out working the problem right out of the starting gate, immediate recalls would be held to replace them with someone who will.

If, during the first month, there hadn't been furious activity to repeal the new health care laws and eliminate lobbying as a show of good faith preparatory to fixing the rest of it, they could all have their pink slips in the second month, and have new occupants in their offices by the third.

I've never claimed to be a patient man!

reply to post by nenothtu


Re-elect no one? I'm all for it, however -- the song and dance about seniority will sway most of our neighbors to re-elect their party guy, regardless of how long he has been sitting there doing nada for the country, its people, or its constitution. The truth is -- most people pick a team and vote team regardless. The silver lining is that the market the message must reach is therefore only 20% of the population: the independents. Convince them and they throw every election, at every level and no one gets "re-elected."

reply to post by EspyderMan


I am not plugging for or against OWS. What really bothers me is how so many people are somehow being blinded from where the real problem resides. Think about this for example. I keep seeing statements like the protests should be against the government and not the corporations. Back up a little and look at the big picture here. OUR government doesn't represent we the people anymore. They are not beholden to us, they are beholden to the money that gets them elected. Nearly everything that happens from the senate to the congress all the way down to state legislatures is manipulated by lobbyists, brought to us from yes you got it, the big money, AKA corporations.

How many times have you heard someone say, or have you said yourself;"it doesn't matter who we elect, they are all the same"? There is a reason for this. It is because no matter how good intentioned so many elected officials are, they fall prey to greed and corruption. The very few who don't are so outnumbered that they are powerless.

I don't know if this OWS will lift the curtain and expose the true enemy, but I do hope that eventually something finally does. Until that happens, we are destined to stay on this path and as far as I could see, it is a downward spiral.

reply to post by nenothtu


Unrig it by voting? Are you in a mental loop? Elections do nothing for change. Screaming at buildings do nothing either. Sadly, the only solution might be the obvious one yet no one has the nerve to speak about openly. Did the american forefathers get rid of the english by peaceful sit-ins? Did the spaniards leave south america defeated by peaceful protests? Did Robespierre and Marat walk around with signs, angry at the monarchy, yet heavily chastised their followers against any violence? Sadly, indeed, history teaches us again and again that tyranny will not let the stranglehold go without a serious fight. Hell, look at what brought black slavery to an end! I am not advocating a civil war or violence. I am just underlining the severity of the situation and that our status as slaves will not be changed through peaceful methods. History has been witness to this before. Just saying.

Hi all, This has been on my mind for some time now and well.. this is kind of a vent/ proposal..
During the last few weeks.. many of us have had mixed feelings towards the wealthy. Are we jealous? or have TPTB so broken us that, whenever an opportunity comes along that seams like it might be to good to be true it is laughed off or ignored or ridiculed as a scam.. I am referring to the concept of MLM, or what has been known as Multi level Marketing.. the old pyramid "scam"...What if today I told you about a company that is MLM in nature.. although for now I will not name it.. but what I can do is describe a new way to view business with MLM..
To be honest your job is a pyramid because there is no way that you will ever be able to make more money than the person that Owns the place you work for.. They are at the top.. with MLM you are at the top.. and the only thing setting you back is yourself.. and some demographic issues.. Don't confuse a ponzi scheme with a pyramid style payment arrangement.. Building a base is not evil or having lots of money is not bad... granted the only thing crummy about a pyramid payment is being the last person on the planet to enroll... but there are many types of legitimate MLM co's and it is not a bad to have 2 or three.. so what we should consider is.. If in fact you're the last person on the planet to enroll.. well, someone at the top should be paying attention,and the next company they start... That last person should be at the top of the other company... this idea of residual income that all the people complain about the 1% having.. well ya know?? What about actors or musicians and all these famous celebs that make loads of money who got their money from their fans and royalties.. so why are we excluding them from our VENT???.. cuz your being played to vote a certain way and it is all a scam to steal your vote for a new candidate who will "free" you to do what they allow you to do!!!!! lol.. you're in a free -range Farm.. you're not free. The only way to free yourself is getting a residual income, and the only way to do that is MLM
But back to MLM... what this country doesn't seam to have anymore is mom and pop skilled labor, no crafters or artisans.. no artists.. no one make pottery of glasses or paintings.. and if they try.. unless they have lots of rich friends that buy their stuff.. they fail.. No jobs over here other than collections, security guards and call center people... some automotive..Well.. what if the residual income provided by everyone being involved with some type of MLM company freed people to have thier OWN business.. in addition to the product the MLM company sold.. I'll use me as an example.. I used to make furniture on occasion.. I know how to reupholster couches and loveseats... It was a family business since my grandfather was around.. but guess what.. it closed down cuz it too expensive and you can now go to FWS or something and send a lot less... but if I had an extra steady source of income.. I could have sold my goods cheaper and that probably would have kept my business from closing..
I am different than any boss you'd ever have..(not exactly a boss but if I enrolled you i train you)...I know when people are discouraged from buying something because they are broke.. or are unsure of their abilities as a salesperson.. well i am good at getting people to do what they're good at.. =) It is what I'm good at =) I build them up with the people that are good at selling under them so they are set to do what they are good at while the people selling stuff benefit them.. or I split the difference of the price until they get their feet wet and can afford it.. It is up to you to do whatever you want with your money,, Consider it not a pyramid but a tree.. with a tree all the roots need water or the tree will eventually die. We are all in this mess together.. money is not real.. it is owed to someone else the moment you get it.. lol it is probably why you needed it anyway.. I KNOW I AM RIGHT LOL..otherwise none of us would bother working anyway... Lets re-write the concept of MLM in such a way that it becomes standard practice and everyone becomes wealthy.. That means finding a bum off the street to train them if need be.. so.. Here is my request.. Become the rich person that you want to see in the world and lead by example.. who wants to be the next role-model for what to do with wealth.. contact me and let us rebuild this Great Nation to Mega-Rich Mom and Pop companies and be the envy of the world =) =)

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


That's true enough. For some odd reason, everyone thinks it's the other guy's congress critter that's getting nothing done, and try to hang on to their own for dear life. I'm one of those "independents", and I'm voting for "none of the above", and trying to convince every single soul around me to do likewise.

yup, that's the idea... fire them ALL, re-elect none, and insure term limits to guarantee that we never have to revisit this particular battlefield again. I'm leaning towards a two or 3 term lifetime maximum, with no two terms consecutive. It's wasting the salary we're paying them to have them off on the campaign trail, rather than being at work about the People's business during any term they are hired to work in.

reply to post by Snoopy1978


You have slave status? I'm truly sorry to hear that. You should free yourself, because until you do, you have no hope at all of freeing anyone else.

When you speak of civil war, I'm not at all sure that you understand how truly horrifying, vicious, and primal that will be, especially in the US. It won't be like the one in the 19th century (which was horrifying, vicious, and primal enough), where you could sort of tell which team a player was on by his uniform. The only way you'll be able to tell this time is by determining who is shooting at you, and by then it may be too late to shoot back.

Most people tend to think of it in 18th century terms, where it's "us" vs "the gummint", but it won't be. Instead it will be a free for all, involving "us" vs. "us" vs. "them" vs. "the gummint". There will be faction upon faction, all fighting each other and sometimes forming temporary alliances just long enough to overcome a common rival before falling back apart and having at one another again.

If it comes to that, I'll fight until I die, and you will, too. there3 is no other option. I truly hope it doesn't come to that, and am willing to exhaust every other option available, including that "useless" voting thing, before ity comes down to a shooting war.

Ain't NOBODY can kill Americans like other Americans.

Originally posted by ntzeret
The only way to free yourself is getting a residual income, and the only way to do that is MLM

I dunno, man. The freest I've ever been was when I had NO income.

I've never had a desire to be wealthy - too damned many headaches involved in keeping up with all the money.

Maybe real "wealth" is just in what you want - or don't want - rather than what you can seize and hold on to.

reply to post by nenothtu


That would be great but it won't work, whoever holds the office up for grabs would just remain even with 0 votes and regardless of term limits.

reply to post by Kali74


Well, then your only choice left is to go to a shooting war. If you can't vote them out, you can't protest them out, either.

Good luck with the shooting war.

Originally posted by wirehead
reply to post by nenothtu

 

You're absolutely right, and I think the endgame for OWS is the creation of a third political party with enough organization and public support to get elected without the billions of campaign dollars that is currently required. With the internet and word of mouth, it would actually be possible to challenge the power structure. The real trick would be dodging or ignoring whatever crap the media would throw at prospective candidates.

Of course, if things got to that point, then we'd see if they'd just hand over the reigns of power peacefully. As soon as the people pose a real threat to the entrenched power, I wager you'll see a backlash.

For all the dialog that went on in this thread, the above is the most concrete and positive solution proposed here. Also, as people mentioned here: term limits for Senators and Congressmen should be mandatory, for the same reason Presidents have them.... to keep them from continually amassing power.

Heck, this thread may seem all worn, dusty and moth-ridden, but it's only about two months old. Hang in there people!