NEar Death Experience? It's all in your head son.

Near-death experiences are simply "manifestations of normal brain functions gone awry", researchers say.

Yep. You heard it. This article on BBC goes on to detail how researchers induced many of the near death experience experiences often described in test subjects that were by no means at risk of dying.

Researchers made people have near death experiences; tunnel of light, dead relatives, bliss and euphoria, and all that, and they did so under controlled, measured, experimental conditions such that they could repeat the experiences in subjects to whatever desired effect.

Here's the link to the article:
Near Death Experience 'all in the mind'

Enjoy.

reply to post by nineix


Neron's fire randomly as you are dying. Guess what Neron's are?

dp

reply to post by nineix


That maybe so, but how does that prove that its not a spiritual experience.

For example lets say a near death experience is the soul leaving the body like an out of body experience. Who is to say that the scientists are not just inducing an out of body experience? like shamans and yoga practitioners the world round.

Just because they can induce or replicate it does not mean it looses credibility.

'___'

I hate to be that guy that mentions this but '___' is totally what is released in your brain as you die. People that have these experiences are basically getting rushes of '___' from the Pineal Gland.

Once again, sorry to be the "drug guy" but it's true..

'___' Wiki

The way this article reads to me is an OBE can make a person feel as though they have passed on when in fact their brain is still fine and well so it is a biological response. However they are not discounting what happens to someone when their brain has flat lined, hence no brain changes as there is none at all. No response at all.

Dr Sam Parnia, director of resuscitation research at the State University of New York and author of What Happens When We Die said: "Every experience, whether near-death or otherwise such as depression, happiness and love is mediated by the brain.

"In fact many experiences share the same brain regions, and so it is not unusual to be able to reproduce them.

"Discovering those areas or reproducing them, doesn't imply the experience is not real. By the same token, we wouldn't say love, happiness and depression are not real.

"Furthermore many people accurately report "seeing" events taking place at a time when the brain doesn't function (such as during cardiac arrest). These cannot be explained by brain changes, since the brain had shut down and 'flatlined'.

"While seeming real to those who experience them, near death experiences provide a glimpse of what it is like to die for the rest of us".

www.bbc.co.uk...

This is the usual uninformed nonsense one hears from those defending the materialistic paradigm of reality. It cannot explain many well-documented OOBEs and NDEs that provided those who left their bodies with accurate information about their surroundings about which they did not know prior ro rhe experience and which it was impossible for their five senses to access without breaking the laws of physics. Like a patient who "died" on the operating table, survived and later reported to doctors seeing correctly that one of the surgeons (none of whom she had seen prior to the operation) had red hair.

Call this an explanation? No. It's merely a declaration of faith by materialists who are ignorant of the many cases in which near-death survivors have reported learning things their brains could not possibly have known if they had truly been confined to their bodies at the time they nearly died.

reply to post by nineix


This is something that I wish science would leave alone.

As if it isn't bad enough that somebody is dying, to learn that what you are seeing isn't real makes death seem more frightening. Our minds work this way for a reason, to make the transition just before a dirt nap less painful mentally.

Yep, I say this should have just been left alone.

Originally posted by Absco
'___'

I hate to be that guy that mentions this but '___' is totally what is released in your brain as you die. People that have these experiences are basically getting rushes of '___' from the Pineal Gland.

Once again, sorry to be the "drug guy" but it's true..

'___' Wiki

edit on 3-11-2011 by Absco because: (no reason given)

That's actually speculation as '___' gets released when your body is under extreme stress which 'may' occur just before death.
Whilst I believe dimethyltryptamine is released before/after death it's not actually proven.

OTT:
The only near death experience you have is the death of your ego temporarily.

Originally posted by supine
reply to post by nineix

 

This is something that I wish science would leave alone.

As if it isn't bad enough that somebody is dying, to learn that what you are seeing isn't real makes death seem more frightening. Our minds work this way for a reason, to make the transition just before a dirt nap less painful mentally.

Yep, I say this should have just been left alone.

The article did not read that way to me....did it to you? I took it as if they are saying it can be reproduced, although when the brain flat lines....it is as real as it gets for the person and "Furthermore many people accurately report "seeing" events taking place at a time when the brain doesn't function (such as during cardiac arrest). These cannot be explained by brain changes, since the brain had shut down and 'flatlined'.

"While seeming real to those who experience them, near death experiences provide a glimpse of what it is like to die for the rest of us".

I don't understand, is this article saying that spiritualism is void because they 'know' it's in your head?, how does it make the experience any less real?

Isn't your mind the most powerful tool, ever?
If tuned correctly I believe it can overcome the worst of diseases even aging.

Originally posted by CrimsonMoon
reply to post by nineix

 

That maybe so, but how does that prove that its not a spiritual experience.

For example lets say a near death experience is the soul leaving the body like an out of body experience. Who is to say that the scientists are not just inducing an out of body experience? like shamans and yoga practitioners the world round.

Just because they can induce or replicate it does not mean it looses credibility.

let's see ... Shamans and other sorts typically put certain substances into their bodies through whatever method of custom they have for that kind of stuff.
The substances, well, they really mess with the brain, and fool the brain into thinking it's dying.
The brain then does the whole kickin' chicken thing, spazzing out in predictable ways depending on what receptors are blocked or stimulated by said substances, and viola, you get one of these experiences.

Same thing in the lab. Insert substance A into receptor B and get effect C.

If after reliably putting gasoline in my car and never having problems, then suddenly changing over to dumping orange juice, or milk in my gas tank where my car doesn't run right, if at all, I think you'll find it hard to find anyone that will accept your explanation that the spirit of my car is just on a higher plane outside of its body.
No. sorry mate.
Car won't run right if you put messed up or inappropriate fuel in it.
Aint no spirit to it.
Biology is just another kind of machine, just biological.

Hopefully one day people will grow up and get away from all the childish make believe nonsense about imaginary characters in the sky with heavens and hells, and realize, THIS is it.
The less mature children will throw temper tantrums like children do, and the more mature, will move on, and accept that life is all the more precious and valuable when you only get one go at it with no do overs, rewards or punishments for doing it right or wrong.

Originally posted by nineix

Originally posted by CrimsonMoon
reply to post by nineix

 

That maybe so, but how does that prove that its not a spiritual experience.

For example lets say a near death experience is the soul leaving the body like an out of body experience. Who is to say that the scientists are not just inducing an out of body experience? like shamans and yoga practitioners the world round.

Just because they can induce or replicate it does not mean it looses credibility.

let's see ... Shamans and other sorts typically put certain substances into their bodies through whatever method of custom they have for that kind of stuff.
The substances, well, they really mess with the brain, and fool the brain into thinking it's dying.
The brain then does the whole kickin' chicken thing, spazzing out in predictable ways depending on what receptors are blocked or stimulated by said substances, and viola, you get one of these experiences.

Same thing in the lab. Insert substance A into receptor B and get effect C.

If after reliably putting gasoline in my car and never having problems, then suddenly changing over to dumping orange juice, or milk in my gas tank where my car doesn't run right, if at all, I think you'll find it hard to find anyone that will accept your explanation that the spirit of my car is just on a higher plane outside of its body.
No. sorry mate.
Car won't run right if you put messed up or inappropriate fuel in it.
Aint no spirit to it.
Biology is just another kind of machine, just biological.

Hopefully one day people will grow up and get away from all the childish make believe nonsense about imaginary characters in the sky with heavens and hells, and realize, THIS is it.
The less mature children will throw temper tantrums like children do, and the more mature, will move on, and accept that life is all the more precious and valuable when you only get one go at it with no do overs, rewards or punishments for doing it right or wrong.

You obviously have never felt the effects of a tryptamine; it's life changing.
No to mention that a spiritual experience/OBE' does not necessarily have to be 'induced' by taking a psychedelic compound.

You need to grow up my friend.
'___' is in everything for a reason.

Did this study account for accurate recollection of ressucitation procedures or conversations? Did it replicate the accurate recollection of events at great distances that were later verified?
Before you ask for details of these claims, just check look it up for yourself, the evidence is quite overwhelming and mounting. The human conciousness project is still underway, and is already apparently showing interesting results.

If you think it's all just hallucination that's fine with me, I won't argue, there's no point. We'll all find out eventually.

But the dying brain theory doesn't stand up against the evidence IMO.

As for drugs, well that was the source of all religions and spiritual experience. The window to other worlds.
Infact I have a theory in this regard that relates to temporal brain seizures, strokes, other brain functions as well as drugs and the mystical experience. A little Elf told me.

Originally posted by nineix

Originally posted by CrimsonMoon
reply to post by nineix

 

That maybe so, but how does that prove that its not a spiritual experience.

For example lets say a near death experience is the soul leaving the body like an out of body experience. Who is to say that the scientists are not just inducing an out of body experience? like shamans and yoga practitioners the world round.

Just because they can induce or replicate it does not mean it looses credibility.

let's see ... Shamans and other sorts typically put certain substances into their bodies through whatever method of custom they have for that kind of stuff.
The substances, well, they really mess with the brain, and fool the brain into thinking it's dying.
The brain then does the whole kickin' chicken thing, spazzing out in predictable ways depending on what receptors are blocked or stimulated by said substances, and viola, you get one of these experiences.

Same thing in the lab. Insert substance A into receptor B and get effect C.

If after reliably putting gasoline in my car and never having problems, then suddenly changing over to dumping orange juice, or milk in my gas tank where my car doesn't run right, if at all, I think you'll find it hard to find anyone that will accept your explanation that the spirit of my car is just on a higher plane outside of its body.
No. sorry mate.
Car won't run right if you put messed up or inappropriate fuel in it.
Aint no spirit to it.
Biology is just another kind of machine, just biological.

Hopefully one day people will grow up and get away from all the childish make believe nonsense about imaginary characters in the sky with heavens and hells, and realize, THIS is it.
The less mature children will throw temper tantrums like children do, and the more mature, will move on, and accept that life is all the more precious and valuable when you only get one go at it with no do overs, rewards or punishments for doing it right or wrong.

You definitely have not had a Psychedelic trip before or had a spiritual experience; I gather that from re-reading your post.
Your analogy about the car and a spirit is completely wrong.

reply to post by MamaJ


What I think you are having difficulty grasping is that when a brain goes flatline, the brain has gone flatline and there are no experiences occurring at that time.

All the experiences are occurring before and after the brain goes flatline, and after function is restored.
For the patient, it's one long uninterrupted experience of whatever sort of experience they are having while their brain is functioning as there's no awareness of flatline, just like when you go into surgery under anesthetic, typically, the next thing you know, you're waking up only 'seconds' after that drowsy effect.

I hope that makes sense?

Di
Methyl
Tryptamine

Originally posted by nineix
NEar Death Experience? It's all in your head son.

It seems the article you posted did not come to the same conclusion as you:

"In fact many experiences share the same brain regions, and so it is not unusual to be able to reproduce them.

"Discovering those areas or reproducing them, doesn't imply the experience is not real. By the same token, we wouldn't say love, happiness and depression are not real.

"Furthermore many people accurately report "seeing" events taking place at a time when the brain doesn't function (such as during cardiac arrest). These cannot be explained by brain changes, since the brain had shut down and 'flatlined'.

reply to post by WiZKiD111

You definitely have not had a Psychedelic trip before or had a spiritual experience; I gather that from re-reading your post.

Definitely huh? So, now you're the world authority on knowing exactly what kinds of recreation I did and didn't participate from the ages of 14 - 22?
Alright then.

You might want to take notice of the T & C rules regarding talking about recreational chemical intake.
I will thus not discuss any personal experiences on that front.

Whatever the case. Chemical substances will mess you and your brain up, some, in rather particular ways to rather particular predictable effect.
It's not the spirit, or any other kind of spooky hoodoo. It's the chemical substance making the brain go haywire.

How hard is that to understand?

Originally posted by Absco
'___'

I hate to be that guy that mentions this but '___' is totally what is released in your brain as you die. People that have these experiences are basically getting rushes of '___' from the Pineal Gland.

Once again, sorry to be the "drug guy" but it's true..

'___' Wiki

edit on 3-11-2011 by Absco because: (no reason given)

again not an argument against the soul leaving the body, it could be argued it is the physical manifestation of the passing, as designed by a deity, to coincide with the passing from physical to spiritual