Let's talk about France and Iraq

The pentagate is a book of Thierry Meyssan, a french. I think it can be donloaded on internet in the english version, but the site I know (r�seau Voltaire) seems to have only the french one. This book explains that only a painted missile or something like that could have touch the pentagon. It shows a lot of contradictions and officials statements.

Any way, W is doing a big mistake with the commandement that say no representation of good and bad, no idolatry of good or bad. But if that man is God... He can also sit on all others commandements, juste like he does and burn the world, juste like the antichrist of the bible.
A burned shrub? Think about this!

And today, some non Islamic terrorists coming from nowhere good for Islam or Iraq want to divised the french with the law of the bourka in public school with the kidnapping of 2 journalists (it has never been forgidden elsewhere, in the street or in private scool... Muslims are free, but the bourka is nothing islamic at all, it is a culture of some muslims, an adaptation, something coming from Saoudi and the friends of W, the Ben Ladden and we don't want little girls to think to sex, because the bourka is something sexual and is not for children, Islam know that very well). We see those terrorists are not muslim, France is more than ever unified against those false muslims and french muslims are very angry against those terrorists, and much more those who was fighting for the bourka at school. We don't accepte terrorist in our discussions. All french muslims and radical muslims know it is very bad to them, not helpfull at all, and they don't wan't to be compared to terrorists. Is it understoodable that terrorist attack France as they are friends of muslims and were protecting Iraq of an invasion? No way W, no way Sarkosy.
But France will stay in Irak with its informations services and journalist to stop fake satellit pictures or discover who sold the weapons to Saddam and why Reaggan sold those weapons in 86 that killed Chiites and Kurdes and menaced Israel in 1990 when the pentagon was saying those weapons were sold by internationals terrorists. The international terrorist was Reaggan so, with its W! Don't America react to such dreadfull fact. We do in France and all over the world.

See also my seconde message in this discussion. And tell me what you think of those reasons that make France believe W want the world, juste like his 2 grand fathers, who financed the nazi army and the holocaust of the jews.

[edit on 1/9/2004 by Alchy]

[edit on 2/9/2004 by Alchy]

[edit on 3-9-2004 by Gazrok]

Not to be overly picky but the desert nation I think you are refering to is called Iraq not Irak. And its Bin Laden not Ben Laden. But I have to say airplanes could have hit virtually any building in the USA. In the US if you don't really know that a plane has been highjacked and you don't know if its going to crash you can't really shoot it down. This was especially true pre-9/11.

Originally posted by cyberdude78
Not to be overly picky but the desert nation I think you are refering to is called Iraq not Irak. And its Bin Laden not Ben Laden. But I have to say airplanes could have hit virtually any building in the USA. In the US if you don't really know that a plane has been highjacked and you don't know if its going to crash you can't really shoot it down. This was especially true pre-9/11.

Many Europeans use the spelling Irak instead of Iraq.
You can see an example of that on the UN site:
www.un.org...

They also use Ben Laden sometimes in Europe as they did in this book:
www.amazon.fr...

They have different names for him in the US also.
Bin Ladin is used on many documents at the NSA
The FBI has him as Bin Laden
his first name is spelled with an O sometimes and with a U at other times.

It's like nobody has never seen a birth certificate for him, unless there isn't an English written name on it.

[edit on 1-9-2004 by AceOfBase]

Oh my mistake then. Sorry I had to be so picky.

Where exactly is "IRAK"? I can't seem to find it in my atlas..............

But can u answer, sorry, I'm not english speaker, may I write in french, so nobody would understand (!!), by beeing in the topic and not in the way Iraq, or Irak is written all over the world as it is a translation from arabic names (childy and ridiculous! Good exemple of american people, nothing else to say?)

Please be human and not ironic any time a country (a very lot of countries) is not ok with the method W admin use and he's wars, he's killing, he's destroying of Iraq(k), he's power over the whole world and his insult on the countries that don't want to change their institutions to go to war, a fake war of invasions and oil, read the papers and listen to others and remember america is not alone in the world, even if her financers are the richer of the world and don't want to be in the world community laws, as everyone see (polution, taxes, trades...), Why? Money and power? Superiority above the world by terminatoring?
Remember 1936. You America is in the mind of europ much more fanatic, with religious racism of hystery and nothing to do with the 10 commandements and misery you brought in Irak with violence and new terrorism of non muslim crazy idiot people that muslim don't understand.
We think W is a sect of money and power and realy don't carre about the religion and the 10 commandements, Islam, the real one, not the one of false muslim terrorist, but also Christians Catholics (not Romans) or Orthodoxes and all religions, but Isra�l W's evangelists wants to convert to romanism, understand W is not a religious man and represent very badly the 10 commandements (the Sionism, as you know, or take a dictonary).
Where is the peace, in the chao that creat logically terrorism? In his methods of killings, in the racism and the superiority of some American, in his global power and convertion to romanism, in the oil bush lobby owns now? And stop unlistening or think others are always wrong, don't fight against the world, you are killing it and taking the power above it, with violence and fanatic fasle religious hystery of Roman Sionists who don't remenber that Sionism is the 10 commandements rising over the world to protect it from human wars and juge of good or bad that is forbidden, and so in the respect of everyone that follow the 10 commandements and all others people, with no killing (You should all know about the 10 commandemants as W say America is now a religious country of Roman Sionists.
It is the first time in History that the Bush and the Walker famillies support Isra�l and Jews, they have alway use it for power and always think their Templiar tradition had to be the one over the world, just like the inquisition. Remember that the 2 grand fathers of George Herbert Walker Bush (George Herbert Walker and Prescott Sheldon Bush) were quiet the biggest Hitler's bankers and their money was used to make jew product the nazi army in Auschwitz and destroy Europ, but also GI's. I don't think W have change the History of he's familly, he would have made excuses and give the money back to jews, but he didn't and the world know his grand fathers are the financers of WWII and Holocaust, but also were very closed to the group of Thule, the roman propagandors of the nazie cause, the conversionist sect of Hitler witch ideas where the very same as Bush new romanism and evangelist. Can we believe such a man who have unherit of such a tradition and such a power on secret society (1000 years of history of the bush familly and Templiar and a Skull and Bones chapter, different of the one of Ladi Di or Kennedy, known to be much more than antisemit and racist, they financed Hitler till 1928 when prescott Bush offered the nazi castle to Hitler to 1942 when the press dicovered who financed the nazis and how and journalist and biographes started to die) have change his tradition so easily like this? The method is the same as WWII, Jews are used by Bush (always a Bush) to divised the world with the new conception of Sionism that became synonym of "go all Jews to Isra�l and don't care about arabs", the atomic bomb of the Pakistan or anything else, will prove we take care of you. Logic?
The base is virused, and the result will be for sure WWIII and a global power of the coalision, of the richer financers of the world.
Nothing is done to stop nazi web sites in america, to stop false muslim integrist that came from Saoudi of Bush and made their propaganda in England to rise in Europ. We french are fighting against that till a long time, as we know where such crazy ideas bring people. Those no sens freedom of speak and hate have to be broken and a real dialog to be open, to understand, to understand, to understand, and not to make people take those positions of death that feed hates.
The matter of America seems to me that they don't feel the need of listening to others as Bush want to show he is everything. The matter is the propaganda that give to America a graet feeling of superiority. The matter is that America speak about the world, but don't listen to it and make a very large propaganda to prove they may be right with war methods and a CIA that prove nothing with fake pictures and proved wrong accusations that bring more and more chao. Very strange, very 1936!
Why do america say the neo Wahhabism is still a normal religion when every Muslim said they were not Muslims till 1994? We don't want of those false muslims in France, but they can go to America with their protector and financer, W who did nothing when a lot of countries told him terrorist where using his money to get his lobby out of Saoudi with Al Qaeda and Oussama.
Do you understand such a paradox, when Bush say muslim are nothing in front of God, but helped Wahhabits terrorists with closing the eyes and making irony on many secret agency of many countries, up to 9/11, when it was too late?
This is the difference between a la�que country that accept every religion when they are normal and peacefull because they observ the 10 commandements and a religious country that accepte every religion without knowing if they are normal, terrorist or not. France and others told America that a new and not understandable terrorism was to explose with the money of Bush lobby used by oil owners in Saoudi, W didn't care, and terrorism is now here and touched America first and became more and more unmuslim making possible an invasion of Iraq with false pictures.
Freedom is not laxism about nazi web sites or terrorist unmuslim people that religions can't accept.
War on terrorism started befor 11/9 2001 when many countries told W somme terrorist were using his money in Saoudi......

I can tell you with 100% authenticity that a plane did hit the Pentagon.

Beyond that there is a lot of freaky crap.

Alchy-

Don't feel bad, your English is a hell of alot better then my French.

I can also confirm that it was infact a plane that hit in DC.

wraith

Originally posted by Alchy
The pentagate is a book of Thierry Meyssan, a french. I think it can be donloaded on internet in the english version, but the site I know (r�seau Voltaire) seems to have only the french one. This book explains that only a painted missile or something like that could have touch the pentagon. It shows a lot of contradictions and officials statements.

Any way, W is doing a big mistake with the commandement that say no representation of good and bad, no idolatry of good or bad. But if that man is God... He can also sit on all others commandements, juste like he does and burn the world, juste like the antichrist of the bible.
A burned shrub? Think about this!

And today, some non Islamic terrorists coming from nowhere good for Islam or Iraq want to divised the french with the law of the bourka in public school with the kidnapping of 2 journalists (it has never been forgidden elsewhere, in the street or in private scool... Muslims are free, but the bourka is nothing islamic at all, it is a culture of some muslims, an adaptation, something coming from Saoudi and the friends of W, the Ben Ladden and we don't want little girls to think to sex, because the bourka is something sexual and is not for children, Islam know that very well). We see those terrorists are not muslim, France is more than ever unified against those false muslims and french muslims are very angry against those terrorists, and much more those who was fighting for the bourka at school. We don't accepte terrorist in our discussions. All french muslims and radical muslims know it is very bad to them, not helpfull at all, and they don't wan't to be compared to terrorists. Is it understoodable that terrorist attack France as they are friends of muslims and were protecting Iraq of an invasion? No way W, no way Sarkosy.
But France will stay in Irak with its informations services and journalist to stop fake satellit pictures or discover who sold the weapons to Saddam and why Reaggan sold those weapons in 86 that killed Chiites and Kurdes and menaced Israel in 1990 when the pentagon was saying those weapons were sold by internationals terrorists. The international terrorist was Reaggan so, with its W! Don't America react to such dreadfull fact. We do in France and all over the world.

See also my seconde message in this discussion. And tell me what you think of those reasons that make France believe W want the world, juste like his 2 grand fathers, who financed the nazi army and the holocaust of the jews.

[edit on 1/9/2004 by Alchy]

[edit on 2/9/2004 by Alchy]

As for Regan supplying Iraq with Equipment and weapons in 83' I compleatly agree with you that it was the begining of all of this trouble. Unfortunatly many Americans either dont want to admit it... or simply dont want to think about it and would much rather put the blame on a presendent that they did not support. Surely you know men and women in France that are so close minded that historical facts have little meaning.

I often watch Le Journal here in the USA and my wife speaks French very well. She has often told me that the subtitles writen are often wrong or if Le Journal is speaking of a story that speaks against what the USA news is saying that they subtitels are stopped all together. I for one am very appriciative of the Frenc journalists in Iraq and I do hope that the two that are being held come home safely.

wraith

Wraith30, you are correct that we supplied Iraq in the early 80's. We did this to counter the Iranians, whom we supplied earlier. The Military industrial complex in this country has made lots of money because of our helping out friends. It is a shame that our friends often turn on us, but remember a lot of these friends changed governments before they turned.

Originally posted by jrsdls
Wraith30, you are correct that we supplied Iraq in the early 80's. We did this to counter the Iranians, whom we supplied earlier. The Military industrial complex in this country has made lots of money because of our helping out friends. It is a shame that our friends often turn on us, but remember a lot of these friends changed governments before they turned.

Yes, it is too bad that one time allies can turn against us, it is also too bad that there is no way to who will and who wont. Heidsite being 20/20 and all.

However when you are funding and suppling groups that use terrorist methods as we did with Osama to carry out attacks. As well as breaking laws in the process, the whole Iran Contra trials. Then you can't expect to be able to wash your hands of it all and for it to not come back and bite you in the A55.

Wraith

"Good exemple of american people, nothing else to say?"

If you think being picky about the spelling of a word is a good example of american people, then why would you seek a response from any of us? Since you are already negatively predisposed towards us, why would you want a discussion of anything with us? I don't think you do. I think you just want to throw rocks.

Originally posted by torque
"Good exemple of american people, nothing else to say?"

If you think being picky about the spelling of a word is a good example of american people, then why would you seek a response from any of us? Since you are already negatively predisposed towards us, why would you want a discussion of anything with us? I don't think you do. I think you just want to throw rocks.

Dude, he came on here asking valad questions and the first response he got was somone correcting his English when it is obviously not his first language, and then never addressing the orriginal questions.

I'd be annoyed too.

wraith

This question is directed at poster "Alahy". What was the role and envolvement of the French government prior to the invasion of the U.S. military? Is this question to vague? You appear to be very intelligent from what I have read on your posts. Certainly you can elightened us.

"Dude", I saw no questions in his initial post. It's just another rant about why France is ok and how Reagan sold weapons to Iraq and W is a bad guy and the Bushs helped the Nazis, blah, blah. He gets one response he doesn't like something about and instantly lumps everyone together saying that what he considered a childish response was a "good example of an american". If he's here feeling that "childish responses" are a fair representation of Americans, then he's only here to throw rocks and not to actually -discuss- anything. It's my opinion based on my observations coupled with life experience. Nobody has to agree with me or defend him against me.

Originally posted by torque
"Dude", I saw no questions in his initial post. It's just another rant about why France is ok and how Reagan sold weapons to Iraq and W is a bad guy and the Bushs helped the Nazis, blah, blah. He gets one response he doesn't like something about and instantly lumps everyone together saying that what he considered a childish response was a "good example of an american". If he's here feeling that "childish responses" are a fair representation of Americans, then he's only here to throw rocks and not to actually -discuss- anything. It's my opinion based on my observations coupled with life experience. Nobody has to agree with me or defend him against me.

"See also my seconde message in this discussion. And tell me what you think of those reasons that make France believe W want the world"

At the end of his post.

So his English is not advanced enough to propose detailed questions. I sure as hell know my French is not that good.

Perhaps instead of attacking him claiming that he is only here to throw rocks, we should discuss why Americans have such a bad reputation that he would feel the need to dismiss that comment as a "Typical american response"

As for "he gets one response he doesnt like..." it was the first response he got. Why don't you make an attempt to see things through annother persons point of view. Perhaps then we can have an inteligent discussion instead of a flame war.

Wraith

If you think this is a flame-war, you haven't been in one.

I am capable of reading and don't have a problem with his posting as far as the nuts and bolts go regarding language. I have my opinion about what he's said and what I think his intentions are. If yours differs, then that's fine. Instead of bothering with me, go ahead and have a discussion with him. And you're right, it was the first response, the only one, and so since judgement was made, he was already predisposed toward having that negativity toward Americans. It's been my experience that when someone comes into a discussion with their mind already made up, they're not really there for a discussion. They're there to throw rocks. Based on these feelings, I posted what I think and that's that. Since you and everyone else on the planet are obviously still free to talk with him, then by all means do so. Since, in this instance, "Let's talk about France and Irak" seems to equal "Let's talk about why W is a criminal and his family supported Nazis" etc, etc, then I have no interest in it. Perhaps you do. If so, then you must pursue it and don't let my holding of a different opinion than yours slow you down.

I wish I could say that this was just a discussion - but it's far from it. It is another french rant against the US. And as always, they fail to mention their own part in world events.

Could it be, my missinformed french friend, that the reason YOUR government was so against the war was because of trade agreements? Not just any old trade agreements, but ones which traded WEAPONS to Iraq in exchange for that evil American addiction, OIL? Your country has there reasons for not wanting to go to war, the main one being the very same thing you accuse America of being currupted by - MONEY and OIL!

Try to get ALL of the facts before you go attacking other countries for their reasons - you may find that the reasons your country was against the war were more selfish then trying to promote some grand world peace and Idealism.

As for your statements, I would like to address them as a person with the mentallity you would probably consider a "cowboy."

Remember 1936. You America is in the mind of europ much more fanatic, with religious racism of hystery and nothing to do with the 10 commandements and misery you brought in Irak with violence and new terrorism of non muslim crazy idiot people that muslim don't understand.

i do not know what you mean when you say "remember 1936" - could you be more specific?. As for Religious racism, do not even begin to act like it is not in France as well. The anti-semtism there is among the highest in the world. You do not allow Muslims their right to freedom of religion - does the word "Burkah" (spl? sorry) mean anything to you? The US has the most liberal view of religion in the world, allowing freedom of worship to anyone.

Where is the peace, in the chao that creat logically terrorism? In his methods of killings, in the racism and the superiority of some American, in his global power and convertion to romanism, in the oil bush lobby owns now? And stop unlistening or think others are always wrong, don't fight against the world, you are killing it and taking the power above it, with violence and fanatic fasle religious hystery of Roman Sionists who don't remenber that Sionism is the 10 commandements rising over the world to protect it from human wars and juge of good or bad that is forbidden, and so in the respect of everyone that follow the 10 commandements and all others people, with no killing (You should all know about the 10 commandemants as W say America is now a religious country of Roman Sionists.

LOL, we are killing the world? Hardly! We ousted a dictator who was proven to be guilty of genocide, or haven't you heard of the kurds? We went into Afghanistan to get OBL and his terrorist pals. We are not attacking the globe, just those who represent a threat to it and ourselves.

Then you go on to talk about how we are fanatical Roman Zionists. Pathetic. Our Religion has absolutely NOTHING to do with why we are over there, or have you forgot that there is no single dominating religion in the US? The only religion that made us go over there was extreme Islam. Extreme Islam has been a cancer on this earth for decades, responsable for untold numbers of deaths. We will be the cure.

Remember that the 2 grand fathers of George Herbert Walker Bush (George Herbert Walker and Prescott Sheldon Bush) were quiet the biggest Hitler's bankers and their money was used to make jew product the nazi army in Auschwitz and destroy Europ, but also GI's.

Maybe you never took history, but Hitler was not always such a demonic figure. Before WWII he was praised around the globe as a great leader, including France. He was a very likeable person (before going to war, in his regrowth of Germany). Besides, this money was invested BEFORE the war - not after. Since the US was and is a free economy, it represented a good investment, as Germany was on the rise after WWI.

And as long as we are talking about WWII, why don't you show a little respect, as your country owes it's independence to countries like the USA and England, who stood up for you when your own people didn't have the spine to do it themselves. France has lost any hint of respect as far as I am concerned. And to label Americans as arragant (as the french always do) is laughable, as your country is the most guilty of it in human history.

And as long as we are talking about WWII, why don't you show a little respect, as your country owes it's independence to countries like the USA and England, who stood up for you when your own people didn't have the spine to do it themselves. France has lost any hint of respect as far as I am concerned. And to label Americans as arragant (as the french always do) is laughable, as your country is the most guilty of it in human history.

Actulay one thing noone ever mentions is that jsut prior to WWII really getting started France had a good number of it's military officers in Italy. Almost all of their officers were rounded up by Musalini (sp?) and France was basicly left leaderless. The operation was really quite brilliant. I cannot blame France for not fairing well durring WWII.

As for the contracts with Iraq for oil.. those are residual contracts left over from the mid 80's when Regan started supporting Iraq allong with France and Germany against the communist influence. France did not trade weapons with them, that was us. France and Germany primarily supplied trucks and helocopters.

You pointed out that we went into Afganistan, your rige we did.. can you explain to me why we stopped mid-opperation pulling almost all energy away from finding OBL and attacked Iraq asside from Bush wanting to get the man who "Tried to kill my daddy."?

You are however quite right about the financial supporting of Hitler pre and not post war.

Ohh yea, france not allowing women to wear the Burkah or however you spell it. French law does not prohibit people from worshiping as they wish. The however do have issues with religion being a prominant factor in areas such as schools. It's just like some Schools here in the USA do not allow religious T-shirts or students to wear Penticals.

Wraith

[edit on 3-9-2004 by wraith30]

Originally posted by RR98
Where exactly is "IRAK"? I can't seem to find it in my atlas..............

It was just explained to you on the 3rd post down. Open your damned eyes.