Ancient Cave in the Moravian Karst Still Stumps Archaeologists: (ever heard of this place?)

Look at the oppulence of the treasures displayed down there. Someone should 'occupy' it in protest of all the bling

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
had no idea that this find existed until now

I find it odd that the headress fits the skull so tightly since there should be some looseness to it
no that the flesh has rotted away,,like there is in the ring with a gap between it and the finger bone

It's pretty though

Maybe the headband originally sat on the top of the head and they just placed it like that for the picture..

I've never seen a headband sit that low..

Originally posted by daggyz
Look at the oppulence of the treasures displayed down there. Someone should 'occupy' it in protest of all the bling

They couldn't afford the airfare

I think about this kind of thing quite often. It amazes me. 10,000 years from now if most of our records of history and of ourselves (books etc.) will probably be gone with maybe a few scarce traces will be left. People will exhume things that have stood the test of time. Maybe like the vault at fort knox. We would be pondering that if we found a steel room with thousands of gold bricks stacked up to the roof. Maybe they find some underground gasoline storage tanks from a gas station and try to figure it their uses.

I also had no idea of this particular find. Truly fascinating, thank you OP.

As to the craftsmanship, this was incredibly skilled throughout much of the region and further north - look at the Celtic designs from this time frame (famed for their craftsmanship). This isn't too far from the period of the Golden Fleece, etc either so we really shouldn't be too surprised about the skills possessed.

Mind you, i suppose its all relative - people from this era would be amazed at my knowledge of wiring plugs!

Im with Anon on this one, i want a time machine

As to the possible causes, i like the Scythian theory. Like the Huns and Mongols, they were steppe people and it is entirely possible when you consider these other tribes / nations that at a time in the past, the Scyths also produced an all conquering, military genius war mongerer of a leader that went ape**** over Europe

Originally posted by Hanslune
This old site reminds me of the great death pit of Ur

Mesanepada was the king of Ur in about 2675 BCE who founded the 1st Dynasty of Ur and made Ur the capital of Sumer. His grave site was the famous death pit PG1237 where over 73 bodies are buried along with their king.

The murder pit

Another link to more drawing of the death pit

edit on 2/11/11 by Hanslune because: (no reason given)

We shouldn't rule out accidental death since even today, when people attend a banquet, they can get legionaries disease salmonella or botulism, or even just contamination with arsenic or who knows really.

In the age of no refrigeration salt was the basic preservative but people often ate meat that was what we would consider bad, by today's standards.
Even shellfish can be deadly poisonous during red tide or similar outbreaks.

In a cave, lack of oxygen, or a release of methane from underground, or CO2 poisoning, if they were down there for any length of time.
If everyone had a torch, that would burn a lot of oxygen. and CO2 in caves is a common problem.
It can be deadly for cavers.

I noticed with that skull that it appears they had good dentistry back then too, top wisdom tooth removed? (correct me if i am wrong). As well as the other teeth are in rather good condition!

I've seen alot of medieval jewelry especially viking crafts and it does'nt look nearly as good as this bronze age stuff pictured. I'm rather suprised by that, not sure what to make of it just yet.

I did part of my MA thesis on the Hallstatt culture. Pretty incredible bunch of people, some amazing arts and craftsmanship.

Originally posted by steveknows
reply to post by Freedom_is_Slavery

 

The ring and headband look Celtic so his first idea if them being Hallstatt is probably correct. I think they're celts

Celtic history and culture is... very much my thing (topic of my PhD thesis actually), and while these artefacts have been dated to the Hallstatt period, they don't actually strike me as being typical of that era. They share a similar quality of craftsmanship, but the designs... don't seem to fit, particularly the headdress. Hallstatt designs are typically quite... organic. What I mean by that is that they tend to flow, swirl, and ebb into one another; they're based on observations of life and nature and reflect the same. With that in mind, Hallstatt culture doesn't depict a lot of squares and dots; more curves, swirls and so on.

You'd expect too, particularly in a headdress, to find symbols of power, which are conspiciously absent from these images. Suggestions that these people died from some form of asphyxiation don't fit the descriptions either. People with the knowledge of how to use a forge to create items that beautiful don't accidentally asphyxiate themselves while using the instruments of their profession.

I'd love to know more about this site. I'm riveted.

Ha! This is really cool! Those artifacts almost look like they came straight out of an Indiana Jones film .

reply to post by jlv70


That skull has better teeth than some dates I've had.

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
had no idea that this find existed until now

I find it odd that the headress fits the skull so tightly since there should be some looseness to it
no that the flesh has rotted away,,like there is in the ring with a gap between it and the finger bone

It's pretty though

Maybe the headdress was placed on the skull after it was defleshed? Lot of stuff going on we do not understand.

Hello nice find

iam czech, i was there once as a kid.. dont remember much though
wasnt aware of uniqueness of this place till now.. i will try to look for local sources and post info if i found anything interesting.

reply to post by jlv70


I am truly intrigued the Integration of the fine patterning on the head dress does not seem indicative or in correlation with the time period given. To put it blunt the skill of the craftsman is way past what the indigenous people should be capable off. It is by looking at our past that we will learn we have it all wrong

Originally posted by LuFri
reply to post by jlv70

 

Is it just me or is the skull misshaped? The back of the skull seems unusually large. I remember seeing some skulls that were shaped like this but can't remember where they were right now. Egypt?

Was this how the skull and headdress/crown were originally found or were they seperate and then combined because they happen to fit?

edit on 11/3/2011 by LuFri because: (no reason given)

The skull is shaped like my father's and son's, so I don't consider it unusual looking. Viking Irish Scottish Danish Celt line.

Originally posted by backinblack

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
had no idea that this find existed until now

I find it odd that the headress fits the skull so tightly since there should be some looseness to it
no that the flesh has rotted away,,like there is in the ring with a gap between it and the finger bone

It's pretty though

Maybe the headband originally sat on the top of the head and they just placed it like that for the picture..

I've never seen a headband sit that low..

Placing people in funeral places after death and after the meat has come off the bones isn't that usual. Likely that is what this is.

reply to post by AlanQaida

As well as the other teeth are in rather good condition!

That bit is effectively an illustration of how terrible modern/western diets are for us. The introduction of processed/refined grain products, pastries, excessive sugar and everything else was quite detrimental.

You'll still find teeth like this in isolated tribes that eat traditional regional diets, as well as likely those on raw foods or "cavemen" diets.

As to the dentistry...all I can say is that our ancestors on the whole certainly weren't dummies. There are records and artifacts from *long* ago showing head surgeries, surgical tools equivalent to what's used today, and the like. Unknown history indeed!

I 've been on this Thracian page for awhile now

Bulgaria is awash with golden treasure from 5000 years ago and the artistry of it is simply mindboggling,subsequent cultures couldn't match it's quality

some of the treasures in this cave remind me of it

they had a religion of Orpheus the rites of which were sometimes bloody and caves and underground places were ritual places fro them


Bulgaria is regionally near Moravia