Proof Of Infiltrators and Provocateurs At OWS Oakland

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by lifttheveil

 

No. He doesn't make a good point really. If that officer supported them "in his off time" he wouldnt be able to bring himself to fire tear gas and rubber bullets at them later when he was on duty.

That guy you are responding to has been making ridiculous claims every change he gets.

Im sorry , where was the video of him firing tear gas and rubber bullets at people?

Talk about ridiculous claims.........you have absolutely NO proof of that whatsoever.........

They could be right, he could be intel gathering, but to make the accusations that YOU do after accusing me of making ridiculous claims is nothing short of hypocritical.......

Please practice what you preach

p.s. Please feel free to post any claims ive made that you feel have no merit, be they not OFF TOPIC
But thanks for taking the time to attack me again

Originally posted by pianopraze
loudly shouting against OWS...

you need to take a look at the bigger picture and take a step back.
sift through the news from 10 months ago, for instance, onwards.
especially alternative media. once you do that, you will start seeing
the bigger picture.

Originally posted by v1rtu0s0
S+F. This is what I've been talking about. They want a reason to shut the protests down. Thus they must put the focus on the protestors themselves by instigating violence.

Hmmmm...I think it is far more likely that "they" want the protests to continue as long as possible and become an even greater distractor of focus from far more sinister things going on a high levels. When the time is right in "their" estimation, they can either end it with a whisper, or a bang. Which one "they" chose will largely be dependent on how the general public reacts to the unfolding saga. They might escalate it in order to declare martial law. Or they might use it to force certain players out of the game....sacrificial pawns..or maybe bishops...and have public support for turning on their own and prosecuting them to public applause.

The fact that these protests are happening on Wall St. and not Pennsylvania Ave. is meaningful. One might think that amongst all the seeming anger at the Banksters, there would be at least a smidgen of End the Fed, End Fanny and Freddie, Take down The Barney Frank Contingent (who actually and willfully created and nurtured this bubble and crash). I don't see any of that though.

How much airtime is being dedicated to the news that Eric Holder is being subpoenaed to testify before the Legislative branch for his fairly obvious knowledge of the highly illegal and unconstitutional Fast and Furious operation? This is all bread and circuses for the public at large. And when the time comes....depending on which way the public wind is blowing...those actually running this game will decide if they will maintain their control better by throwing a few Christians to the lions, or a few of their own, or appear to resolve the "crisis" (that they created) and be thought well enough of to be re-elected, rewarded, and continue in power

Stay well.

Thanks for all the comments guys.

It seems that the opinions on this movement vary in a wide degree.

Even people who agree with the movement disagree with other members who also agree due to other circumstances. Hopefully we can all unite and get past the distractions and infiltrators and make the best of this upcoming situation.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


7 pages in this thread and still no proof any provocative actions by any of the alleged officers in the video. Your thread title indicates Proof!.

Cops infiltrating the camps is no big deal. I'd be willing to wager that the FBI has campers in place also.

"Know Your Enemy"- Sun Tzu "The Art of War"

Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

7 pages in this thread and still no proof any provocative actions by any of the alleged officers in the video. Your thread title indicates Proof!.

Cops infiltrating the camps is no big deal. I'd be willing to wager that the FBI has campers in place also.

"Know Your Enemy"- Sun Tzu "The Art of War"

The video shows the provocative actions. Some members have even taken the liberty of listing the exact times in the video that these actions occurred. How about you watch the vid or reread the thread. Your definition of provocation may be slightly different than mine, but the root definition cannot be disputed.

Seven pages and you missed the goods on page one

ETA: I starred that last comment by accident. I want my star back

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed

Originally posted by jibeho
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

7 pages in this thread and still no proof any provocative actions by any of the alleged officers in the video. Your thread title indicates Proof!.

Cops infiltrating the camps is no big deal. I'd be willing to wager that the FBI has campers in place also.

"Know Your Enemy"- Sun Tzu "The Art of War"

The video shows the provocative actions. Some members have even taken the liberty of listing the exact times in the video that these actions occurred. How about you watch the vid or reread the thread. Your definition of provocation may be slightly different than mine, but the root definition cannot be disputed.

Seven pages and you missed the goods on page one

ETA: I starred that last comment by accident. I want my star back

edit on 1-11-2011 by Corruption Exposed because: (no reason given)

Sorry, Just watched it again. Perhaps I need to borrow your rose colored glasses and watch for the 6th time.

I see one situation that appears to be an interaction with someone. Wow! No audio and no physical contact, no raised fists, no weapons.

Where is the provoking act again? Give me a break and don't try to prove your case in court.

The thumbs up will have to suffice, for I have no other means to give you your star back.

ETA:
Please let me add one observation in this giant leap of a thread. How do you know that these supposed cops weren't just scoping out the rally off duty? Perhaps wanting to see for themselves what was happening? It is certainly plausible given the limited scope of the video. Try painting with a smaller brush. The clean up is much easier.

reply to post by jibeho


How do you not see that these cops are working the protests plain clothed?
Proof is given. Whether you want to be foolish and not see it for what it is is up to you.
These cops are going down to support protesters and then shooting tear gas and rubber bullets at them later.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


I two-millionth this...atleast that what should be...but noone really cares to do anything...

Cops do their jobs, like soldiers in the army...I really don't know the difference sometimes...I mean german soldiers were ordered to kill jews and anti-nazis, some liked their job, others did it because it was their job and the few were also killed because they refused to do thier jobs...I beleieve that cops for the most part just want a paycheck to feed their families like you and me...unfortunately for them, thier job my be to infiltrate OWS movements and social gatherings for whatever intel their superiors want to get and in some cases not all, they do it willingly enough.. in fact the majority of the time, the cops who believe in what their doing and don't support the movement (as indidviuals they do have that right) they are more then happy to disrupt and provocate violence or whatever they need to do to stop the movement... I don't know about these cops shown in the video, maybe they are just doing their job or maybe they support it...who knows, unless i know them personally, I am only speculating..Personally myself I think they were there to infiltrate and gather intel although i am willing to admit I could be wrong...The simple truth of the matter is that some cops or mercs etc.. will provocate or instigate violence but in the end they answer to their superiors, sometimes with their blessing if only behind closed doors and others with a slap in the face...one video or even 10 videos does not prove that any cop who provokes or agitates violence does it with or without their superiors blessing...Bottom dollar it's a guessing game, who the povocateurs and sleeper agents are...we do know they exist and that makes us all weary of everyone around us, perhaps we should be...I will close with this..myself I follow my instincts and my heart,,,if it tells me to do something I will...my heart is telling me that OWS is a short term thing and there is a high potential for violence and maybe without violence there wil be no change...hard to judge that one...however I do support the movement overall..I relly hope something good comes out of it...perhaps even lower interest rates on a bank loan if nothing else

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by jibeho

 

How do you not see that these cops are working the protests plain clothed?
Proof is given. Whether you want to be foolish and not see it for what it is is up to you.
These cops are going down to support protesters and then shooting tear gas and rubber bullets at them later.

I do see it for crying out loud. I have acknowledged their presence in the crowd and offered alternate explanations due to thin evidence presented in the video. Its open ended and there is NO PROOF of any provocative attempts by these officers. Period. Maybe I can borrow your rose colored glasses too.

Meanwhile back in the real world, perhaps these officers were checking things out due to mixed signals coming from the Communist Mayor of Oakland.

What do you make of this??

We represent the 645 police officers who work hard every day to protect the citizens of Oakland. We, too, are the 99% fighting for better working conditions, fair treatment and the ability to provide a living for our children and families. We are severely understaffed with many City beats remaining unprotected by police during the day and evening hours.

As your police officers, we are confused.

On Tuesday, October 25th, we were ordered by Mayor Quan to clear out the encampments at Frank Ogawa Plaza and to keep protesters out of the Plaza. We performed the job that the Mayor’s Administration asked us to do, being fully aware that past protests in Oakland have resulted in rioting, violence and destruction of property.

Then, on Wednesday, October 26th, the Mayor allowed protesters back in – to camp out at the very place they were evacuated from the day before.

To add to the confusion, the Administration issued a memo on Friday, October 28th to all City workers in support of the “Stop Work” strike scheduled for Wednesday, giving all employees, except for police officers, permission to take the day off.

That’s hundreds of City workers encouraged to take off work to participate in the protest against “the establishment.” But aren’t the Mayor and her Administration part of the establishment they are paying City employees to protest? Is it the City’s intention to have City employees on both sides of a skirmish line?

It is all very confusing to us.

Meanwhile, a message has been sent to all police officers: Everyone, including those who have the day off, must show up for work on Wednesday. This is also being paid for by Oakland taxpayers. Last week’s events alone cost Oakland taxpayers over $1 million.

The Mayor and her Administration are beefing up police presence for Wednesday’s work strike they are encouraging and even “staffing,” spending hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars for additional police presence – at a time when the Mayor is also asking Oakland residents to vote on an $80 parcel tax to bail out the City’s failing finances.

All of these mixed messages are confusing.

Confusing?? Damn Right. So the cops are told to go to work while everyone else is actually encouraged to join the fight which could very easily get violent.

WTF is going on here. Open your eyes!!

For the last time PROVE that these cops provoked anyone as claimed in the OP. The OP can't even prove it.

Good Bye
biggovernment.com...-365488

good video! no bad deed shall go unseen

In reality, the police is in a bad situation. If there will be a revolution, the risk is huge that they will be taken out and literally shot. They will be the first target, by any revolutionairy ... so the cops, will use violence, and will infiltrate ... to protect themselves, and out of fear.

And for good reason ...

Even though everyone says, this is "peaceful" ... it's that, now ... but it's going to get worse, and then worse ... slowly but surely. And the government has to make sure, that there is very little leadership out there ... and if there is a potential for one, to make sure that leadership is taken out, before the movement can move in unity.

The police at this stage, is not working for the people ... they are working to protect themselves, out of fear. Perhaps currently, it hasn't reached the fear stage ... but it's the precursor to fear stage, because they know very well, what it could lead up to.

Of course there will be infiltration and some instigation. This is to be expected. However, I would caution against blindly believing that *no* actual Occupiers are engaging in or being willing to engage in violence. This will happen, too. That's why the police go in to stir things up....it works. Like it or not, the " left " tends to have a higher opinion of violent means for bringing about social change. You didn't see much violence at Tea Party rallies because it's harder to stir that group up. The violent people on the right are far more cautious about using it and tend not to be the type who likes to congregate. They largely opted out of the feel good " God Bless America" rallies.

The biggest issue I'm seeing with Occupy is the blind belief that they are fighting the system while holding signs and sleeping in tents bought and paid for by the DNC and it's affliates. Seriously guys? You're fighting the power with the approval of the local, state and Federal officials? You're bringing down " corporate America " while getting a showing of solidarity from multinational companies like Unilever-owned Ben and Jerry's? Take a look at the list of sponsors and organizations that support OWS and then tell me this isn't carefully controlled herding of righteously angry folks.

We probably won't see a blanket declaration of martial law out of this. As others have said, that would be a massive wake up call to America. But, we may see it in individual cities and towns. Much more likely is a slow choke hold of freedom, as we already have in the past decade. Look at Detroit over Halloween with it's curfews and such. The TSA in Tennesee. Big Sis's streetlights. Watch what is happening, and soon to come, in Indianapolis for the Superbowl. We'll have years of that before martial law. People make the mistake of thinking tyrants roll into town in tanks as an opening salvo. That's always the very last step.

Until then we're frogs in the pot, guys.

Originally posted by Nietrick
Of course there will be infiltration and some instigation. This is to be expected. However, I would caution against blindly believing that *no* actual Occupiers are engaging in or being willing to engage in violence. This will happen, too. That's why the police go in to stir things up....it works. Like it or not, the " left " tends to have a higher opinion of violent means for bringing about social change. You didn't see much violence at Tea Party rallies because it's harder to stir that group up.

That's just an oxymoron ... a really ignorant statement.

Cops are, by definition ... fascists. Whose job is to literally "beat it" into the population, to fear violence.

In a true democracy, it's the will and need of the people that dominates. The government, fears the people ... but every state slowly and surely evolves into a fascist police state through the process of the establishment trying to mold the opinion of the public and then protecting themselves and their position within that establishment, where the job of the police is to protect the establishment, and not the individual. The reqruitment of police officers, is to recruit those who are likely to fit the group and will use violence against any and all, that the establishments so choses. That is what a police officer does ... it's his job.

Someone like you, going out and say "violence is bad" ... is an ignorant statement, of an ignorant man. The US uses violence against every nation in the world. It uses violence in extreme and threatens to inhialate the entire world by a nuclear holocust. 4000 people died in america, and the US goes to war across the globe and murders over a million people, and leaves behind radioactive sickness that kill and mutilate the unborn.

That's ok, but using violence to change society isn't? that sort of statement is an idotic crap, literally ... you can't bring about change, without violence. You can't bring about a revolution, without violence ... it's in the nature of things, that violence is needed.

The police is using this violence, in a psychological manner ... to make the idiot public "fear" violence. Both within and without, and thus not being able to bring about any change to the establishment ... so that in the end, all you have is a group of "hippies" singing "peace" and "make love, not war" ... sitting in a circle, smoking their pot and living in their own little world.

You think those hippies are going to bring about a change? The rest, run out, because they know very well that if those hippies are the center of attention, they'll end up being hit by fists, rocks or worse ... from the police.

I could not have put it better myself.

If I had a 100 stars, I would give them to you for that Post!

Cops are not there to server and protect the public anymore. They are in being to serve, the Political Classes, and the Rich. While the rest of us are screwed right left and center. Until People open up their eyes and see whats been going on for years. Maybe then you will learn something. Or you could just continue to pull the wool over your own eyes. Thinking that there is nothing wrong with the Police as a whole/

So it turns out he was there as a civillian protesting. Figures.

Fred Shavies and I are both from Oakland, and are both photographers. I was acquainted with him because of some mutual friends and interests. When I saw the Copwatch video I recognized him. I saw (from his twitter feed) that he had seen the video, and he had posted a comment identifying with the 99%. I contacted him and asked if he was willing to discuss on camera. He agreed. We filmed the interview the following day.

Source Pinac

Let the conspiracy theories fly!

Originally posted by jibeho
Where is the evidence of these guys being provocateurs?? That is where the line is crossed. They have nothing to gain by provoking violence that may actually lead to one of their fellow officers getting hurt or killed..

Hurt or killed? Have you seen these guys? They've got three inches of body armor,armored vehicles, chemical weapons, gas masks, plexiglas shields and visors, paramilitary training, and total legal immunity for their own actions. On top of their regular-issue weaponry, a moderate airforce capability, the ability to call in reinforcements, etc.

And they're going up against people armed with.. .what, cans? Tambourines? That loud popping noise a bone makes when a cop breaks it?

The cops are at no risk. So don't worry your sweet little head over their welfare.

so what do the cops get? Well, they get to keep their protected position. Remember that "total legal immunity for hteir own actions" thing? yeah, that's one of the perks. Other perks are never getting fired no matter how badly you violate your oath. Having access to drugs and confiscated goods. Having weightier testimony in the courts.

Basically what they gain is the same thing every other brownshirted thug institution in history has gotten - a small seat at the table of the ruling class, so long as they continue to brutalize their "lessers"

If they are not at risk then how come they're constantly getting hurt and hospitalized? What ever gear they have hardly makes them magically immune to damage.