Fliers Drop on Occupy Chicago Protesters

Originally posted by 2gd2btru
In this recession I have gone from riches to rags. Although I fully understand the frustration of the person who wrote the letter, I do not agree with the angry spirit it reflects.

When I had my own business it was a privilege to be associated with our 68 employees. I was happy to provide the best healthcare and continuing adult education for those who desired progress in their careers. I enjoyed working in my community supporting various charitable organizations. Whether cancer research, homeless shelters, outreach centers, reading programs for at risk students, providing classroom supplies for schools, etc. I made sure that my money didn't spend much time lining my own pockets.

When my business closed in 2009 we chose to give up our financial security to provide severance packages for those we had to lay off. I do not regret my choice. I was never the "sum total of my possessions."

Rags isn't as bad as it could be. We rent a very small place instead of owning an estate. I still wake up at 6 AM. I still put in a full days work. When I couldn't afford furniture to replace what was lost I went to the library and read enough to figure out how to make my own for a small fraction of the price of inexpensive new. I know how to cook, sew, and garden to cover other needs. The same work effort coupled with faith that helped create the success I enjoyed before is still what drives me today. I don't have time to be envious. I only have time to work, pray and be thankful for the moment by moments of each day. It is still important to me to find ways to benefit my community, and I'm thankful serving others can be accomplished on a budget of nothing. In many ways I still feel rich.

Originally posted by wayouttheredude
reply to post by 2gd2btru

 

I would sure like to hear the rest of your story. Perhaps you could start a new thread with that as the central theme. I would subscribe.

I would subscribe as well

There is much wisdom to be gained from failed business owners and ventures.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by roswell1987

 

Explain to me how "society gave them their money"

Society didnt give them their money directly, but there would have been no way for them to get their money when there wouldnt be a society. For example take the CEO of some company. They get paid much because their company s successfull. Most companys dont generate money in some magical way, but by selling products or servces to other people. So if the company would be operating in a society that is so #ed up, that no one would be able to purchase anything at all this principle wouldnt work. The same can be said for most rich people, famous artists get rich because so many people attend their concerts or buy their paintings, a broker on the wallstreet can only make money because we have the economic system that is currently in place. If you would take one of these persons out of this and place them without interaction to the rest of us there would be no way for them to acumulate the huge amount of wealth they currently have.

Originally posted by notquiteright
They threaten to take the protesters jobs. . . I'm kind of thinking that given the amount of time the protesters have now been there, they don't have jobs (anymore ).

That is the point. While OWS protests, the laid off Trader will work what they can find, without little resistance.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by notquiteright

They threaten to take the protesters jobs. . . I'm kind of thinking that given the amount of time the protesters have now been there, they don't have jobs (anymore ).

That is the point. While OWS protests, the laid off Trader will work what they can find, without little resistance.

Hooray Americas best and brightest minds can now hope to depose the weakest amongst us of thier cushy landscaping job, once they become unemployed from thier redundant paper shuffling sales career

Originally posted by InformationAccount

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by notquiteright

They threaten to take the protesters jobs. . . I'm kind of thinking that given the amount of time the protesters have now been there, they don't have jobs (anymore ).

That is the point. While OWS protests, the laid off Trader will work what they can find, without little resistance.

Hooray Americas best and brightest minds can now hope to depose the weakest amongst us of thier landscaping job, once they become unemployed from thier redundant paper shuffling sales career

Never stated I was rooting them on.

Just stating what I see coming and what is possible.

I know many of traders.
About 99.9999% of them did not grow up with the silver spoon.
They know how to fix a car, grow a garden, hunt and fish and so on.
The idea that all they do is sit on their butts is pretty stereotypical.
These are people with wealth and all the things that come with wealth. Like, food storage, firearms, several homes (some outside the cities).
Out West, they are prepared.

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by InformationAccount

Originally posted by macman

Originally posted by notquiteright

They threaten to take the protesters jobs. . . I'm kind of thinking that given the amount of time the protesters have now been there, they don't have jobs (anymore ).

That is the point. While OWS protests, the laid off Trader will work what they can find, without little resistance.

Hooray Americas best and brightest minds can now hope to depose the weakest amongst us of thier landscaping job, once they become unemployed from thier redundant paper shuffling sales career

I know many of traders.
About 99.9999% of them did not grow up with the silver spoon.

They know how to fix a car, grow a garden, hunt and fish and so on.

Out West, they are prepared.

It's not the people that are the problem, it's the entire system.

It's structured wrong.

100 people want your money and no one wants to be responsible.

Thanks lawyers.

These traders should join us in deposing a defunct and dysfunctional system.

Everyone knows it's all #ed up, just join us and together we can all bring it down.

Originally posted by InformationAccount

Originally posted by sonnny1

Theres a lot of Anger at the Government for keeping poor people poor.

Imagine a government,where you dont pay Taxes?

Where there is NO Fed Reserve?

That's been done before Comrade.

It's called Communism or Totalitarianism

"The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism by Goldstein - (How You Are Controlled)"
www.abovetopsecret.com...

edit on 29-10-2011 by InformationAccount because: (no reason given)

...Well...it certainly has been done before.
But the 2nd part of your answer is where you go a little off. It was done in the United States before the creation of the Federal Reserve and the adoption of the federal income tax under Woodrow Wilson's "progressive" administration. Also happened to coincide with banking/corporate domination of the US government. Coincidence?

Unless you consider a more decentralized, republican (small "r"), and more relatively free and egalitarian society to be "totalitarian", I would have to disagree.

reply to post by InformationAccount


Wow, "Join or Die"....... I guess.

Originally posted by wayouttheredude
That is the dumbest most ill conceived taunt/rant I have seen today. The reality is that what they call work is mostly sitting on your butt in front of a computer screen or talking on the phone for hours. That is not going to prepare them for middle class level of work. They tanked the market and our 401k so they are already feeding on us. What they are not going to like is when we who overwhelmingly outnumber the Wall Street bunch work for real every day are not harmed at all if they did not exist. We make things. We build things and we are the ones that create things.

Wall Street creates nothing, it builds nothing. It invents clever ways to extract more value from the productive classes. That type of invention we do not need more of we need less so if they were gone tomorrow I would just say good riddance now we are one giant parasitic organism down with one more to go.

Actually, most Wall Street jobs are extremely high stress and involve lots of interacting with people and being successful in doing so (or they end up doing something else). What work are the protesters doing? Or what skills do the protesters have? What do they make? Minimal tip money for lousy service in their service industry job?

I would agree that much of the Wall Street apparatus produces nothing concrete, but then again neither does the American Middle Class. And except for a few, most American jobs produce very little except creating an income for consumers to buy things & services (mostly produced in foreign countries)

I am not defending this letter's position so much as saying that OWS types should realize that it is largely true. Because if you don't know your enemy (and obviously most don't) you will most certainly lose.

Originally posted by The Old American

Originally posted by AzureSky
Talking about the 1% = talking to anyone who makes multi-millions, or billions a year.
BIG BUSINESS
MONEY IN POLITICS.

Its more like the top 0.001% that control trillions of 'digital' money. And can collapse what they want, when they want. Theres lots of money in it. Lots of money to be robbed from the planet.

No, statistically the 1% is anyone making more than $350k a year. Like that mom-and-pop Chinese restaurant down the street. Or that local hobby shop. Or that privately owned dry cleaner that doesn't put too much starch in your pants. You know, small business owners that are the backbone of the U.S. economy. The small business owners that employ 60% of the Americans holding a job today.

Down with the 1%, indeed.

/TOA

Very true. Regardless of some good intentions by some naive protesters, OWS' ulimate aim is the destruction of America's backbone. Wall Street/banks/large corps need to be contained, but the answers being proposed by this crowd will only strengthen elites and destroy the American Middles class.
Most of that 1% actually are hard working producers that represent the economic and moral backbone of the nation and provide jobs.

The problem that should be targeted is the much smaller percentage who have gained influence due to the power of centralized banking and the growth of the federal government. Also, the percentage at the bottom who have become dependent on the taxpayers must be weaned from the teat.

It's all our faults, really. We've been ignoring every warning about this happening for the last 30+ years now.
Chomsky, Nader, Paul, Perot, Kucinich, among others were all called nuts and loons until the crash of 2008 hit.

Until normal Americans accept responsibility for their predicament and acknowledge that they are responsible for fixing it, nothing will change. Fulminating against people who have things is not only petty, it's self destructive.

Dependence and lack of personal responsibility are the exact reason we are where we are. Not rich people.

Originally posted by 2gd2btru
In this recession I have gone from riches to rags. Although I fully understand the frustration of the person who wrote the letter, I do not agree with the angry spirit it reflects.

When I had my own business it was a privilege to be associated with our 68 employees. I was happy to provide the best healthcare and continuing adult education for those who desired progress in their careers. I enjoyed working in my community supporting various charitable organizations. Whether cancer research, homeless shelters, outreach centers, reading programs for at risk students, providing classroom supplies for schools, etc. I made sure that my money didn't spend much time lining my own pockets.

When my business closed in 2009 we chose to give up our financial security to provide severance packages for those we had to lay off. I do not regret my choice. I was never the "sum total of my possessions."

Rags isn't as bad as it could be. We rent a very small place instead of owning an estate. I still wake up at 6 AM. I still put in a full days work. When I couldn't afford furniture to replace what was lost I went to the library and read enough to figure out how to make my own for a small fraction of the price of inexpensive new. I know how to cook, sew, and garden to cover other needs. The same work effort coupled with faith that helped create the success I enjoyed before is still what drives me today. I don't have time to be envious. I only have time to work, pray and be thankful for the moment by moments of each day. It is still important to me to find ways to benefit my community, and I'm thankful serving others can be accomplished on a budget of nothing. In many ways I still feel rich.

edit on 29-10-2011 by 2gd2btru because: (no reason given)

You have the right attitude. And due to that attitude, work ethic, and sense of responsibility, you will more than likely see better days again. Also, your initiative to be more independent by doing things for yourself, that most rely on others for, displays a true American spirit that is sadly lacking in today's world.

Stick in there, bud. You got this.

Originally posted by wayouttheredude
That is the dumbest most ill conceived taunt/rant I have seen today. The reality is that what they call work is mostly sitting on your butt in front of a computer screen or talking on the phone for hours. That is not going to prepare them for middle class level of work. They tanked the market and our 401k so they are already feeding on us. What they are not going to like is when we who overwhelmingly outnumber the Wall Street bunch work for real every day are not harmed at all if they did not exist. We make things. We build things and we are the ones that create things.

Wall Street creates nothing, it builds nothing. It invents clever ways to extract more value from the productive classes. That type of invention we do not need more of we need less so if they were gone tomorrow I would just say good riddance now we are one giant parasitic organism down with one more to go.

Define "middle-class work", I actually though that it would mostly consist of clerical jobs, in which people, guess what, spend most of their time sitting with their butt in front of a computer screen and talking on the phone for hours. These people are investment bankers, and they are not any kind of mindless drones - they are actually among the brightest in our society. Anyone who has made a career on it or who has tried to do so knows how competitive the environment is, and how difficult it is to land a position in one of the big i-banks.

Wall Street creates nothing? Think of that next time your company tries to get a loan for some investment project. Think of that when you try to get a loan to buy a house. With that mindset, no wonder that your company failed.

reply to post by kipfilet


IMHO the most common middle class work in the US right now is working for the government. With the evisceration of Americas industrial jobs due to outsourcing.

Wall Street doesn't create anything they move money around. There is absolutely a place for traders and all the other occupations on Wall Street. Ideally they ensure that capital is moved to the places where it is put to it's most efficient and productive use. No one works for free so they are entitled to skim a little off for themselves for their work. To claim that financial services create anything is disingenuous.

What has gone so terribly wrong in the past two decades is that while the parts of the economy that actually produce have contracted, the financial services industry has become a grossly large part of our economy. As I said earlier no one works for free so the "tax", for lack of a better word, that financial services take from the movement of capital to the most efficient and productive use has grown.

From a certain perspective, all professions in the FIRE (Finance Insurance Real Estate) leech from endeavors that might produce a good or service. It's my opinion that the amount leeched by that part of the economy has become greater than the benefit they provide of efficient uses of capital.

Oh, and to reiterate my post from a couple of pages ago, The rant from the OP was not written in response to OWS. It's been around since at least April of last year.

The note seems more threatening than anything - what the author fails to realize is that we are educated, as well, and it won't be so damn easy to knock us middle-class to the lower-class in the event their position is destabilized. I got a clear feeling the author puts himself on a pedestal above the rest of us. Anyway, the author is taking the protests personally, when the protests are meant to be a message to the government. Ergo, a message to Obama and his administration. Which means, then, that Obama and his administration are part of the problem, not "our" solution. Which then renders that entire note moot.

If the author was half as intelligent as s/he thinks s/he is, s/he would have realized that.

reply to post by InformationAccount


Not much to the story, I owned two Saturn Dealerships. When other dealers were power booking deals with the banks, I refused and contracted deals through local Credit Unions. I was given preferred status based on my ethical business practices. When others were feeling the pinch of the banks needing to tighten lending, I was still turning in record profits.

Then GM did away with the Saturn line and gave their better designed vehicles to Buick and Chevrolet to prop them up. My business didn't fail, it was taken from me.

Now as far as me regaining what I have lost. It isn't my focus. I have ended up doing what the letter in the OP states will happen. I don't purchase manufactured items. I am not able to afford to pay another for making anything or to provide a service. I do what I did before I bought my own business, I labor for what I have. Many of us that were in the top 1% did work our way up to a better life, so we are not afraid of having less. I still have what I consider a good life. I don't have money, but I do have the same values and principles this country was founded on to sustain myself and my family. In my world, God is still good, work is still at my fingertips, and my neighbor is still worth reaching out to.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Evolutionsend

 

The overall message from the letter, that I gather anyways, is that our society does not function without the Traders. Our investments depend on it, the economy depends on it, the wealth spent by them is a huge part of the economy, etc etc. And it's true. It's not an excuse for unethical practices or corruption, that needs to be taken care of. But if you punish people for making money .... well then we have a problem.

And the most important message of all, to me anyways is ..... who's going to get screwed?

The Middle Class. The poor want to eat the rich, the rich will squash the Middle Class when they stop spending and investing, while the poor devour their savings because of course the Middle Class pays for everyone.

Being a member of the 53% that pays an obscene portion of my income to federal taxes to support the do nothing poor and watching the rich squander it away.. I got to say.. in the class warfare don't expect me to fight for either group. The rich and the poor can both go to hell in my opinion.

edit on 10/29/2011 by Rockpuck because: (no reason given)

I see that you missed out the HUGE FACT about how if these same money makers as you potray, did not get a bail out from us, ie., government, they would not be trading right now, NOW WOULD THEY

Irony at every turn is not not when you live in a "Democratic" society.

Here is the reality. When it becomes us vs them (the rich vs the poor...as the middle class is being completely purged) they will definitely have a wake up call lol. This is like the internet warrior fighting behind his keyboard only they are doing it behind corporate walls and piles of cash.

Oh yeah we will stand here and let you financially rape us some more...want some vaseline while you are down there?

I speak to you mister banker and all those you represent. Try it. Try to impose your arrogant, over-payed, unappreciative will on the majority with the spark lit. As a matter of fact why don't you just come out and show your faces. Put faces to these ideas like we have. Anonymous you might say? Well to a degree, at least we can voice our opinions AND show face rather than hide and make threats from the shadows. And trust me we know why you hide...you have good reason to.

reply to post by allprowolfy


The person doing the trading did not get the bailout. The banks they work with and work for did.
I thought the whole idea was that Corporations are not people?

Can't have it both ways.

reply to post by ErgoSphere


This was written long before any of us had ever heard of OWS. Keep that in mind. Check out the date on this link

FT Alphaville

That article is from 4-30-2010.

The rant has been around for at least year and a half today. To say that it was written in response to OWS is provably false. The only protests that had any anti-bankster messages were some of the early, prior to being co-opted by the GOP tea party protests. You can't say that the author is taking the protests personally as it was written well before OWS was even a thought.

That being said, someone who agrees with it probably did drop it on Occupy Chicago.

reply to post by Rockpuck


cool story bro, but no.

When you get off the pyramid, you automatically land at the bottom, not the middle.

That's how the treadmill works bro.


Aside from the contradictions such as "we'll do our own landscaping" and "we'll push the middle class down", it's just plain dumb.

Enjoy the bottom. The middle class will enjoy the extra room.