If the 99 just got these 4 things, they could rule instead of protest.

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx


Again you make a good point, that few among us could lead admirably and selflessly, but consider this: People are 99% genetically similar and all pretty much want the same thing. This fact is bigger than any leader or political system ever devised. They realize they have to share and work in this world, and get along, this isn't rocket science.

So if the people just start voting and fixing their bad votes with better votes, they will eventually fine tune the government to optimally satisfy them. This is going to take some time, but it will be worth it.

reply to post by Ethericplane


The left has never created real wealth and when it has attempted to it has concentrated wealth in smaller hands than our current system. What is an example of a leftist society where real wealth has been created and sustained?

Where do leftists get capital to start businesses? From the government? Historically thats been a fine solution to organize society. It has been failed everywhere it has been tried.

There will always be places that will enable the wealthy to locate to - the countries will tax at some level and they will fight for the assets of the wealthy. They are now.

The massive wealth creaters in the world, like Apple, Microsoft, the various biotech firms are tied to brains, not countries. There is absolutely nothing keeping those firms here but the people who work at them. If you were to start a knowledge capital firm today, considering the state of education in this country, burdensome regulatory environment and confiscatory tax policies, you would start it elsewhere, perhaps in India. The only thing preventing that from happening at the moment are lax legal systems surrounding intellectual property. That will get straightened out. The next Apple/Microsoft will not be an American firm regardless of who the founders of it are.

Tax policy is already massively biased against the rich. At the end, they are going to simply pick up and leave. The OWS crowd can do fine without them? I wish them luck.

reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx

So was I. Those who care, are willing to act, and could agree on how to act is not a 99%. After you got that together, you'd have a horribly small minority. That's the flaw in this proposed plan.

Maybe not. I think the key is to have a much finer division of voting blocks than we do now. With the type of technology the op is talking about, we could go down to the neighborhood level. That is, this neighborhood sets its own rules. If you don't like those rules, you are free to move. If neighborhood x did something that affected neighborhood y or z, then the first regional group that contained all of x,y, and z would need to vote on x's actions, but not other regions.

That is, I have an equal say in what is directly relevant to me and no more or no less. I cannot say how you should live your life in New York, but in my neighborhood, I have a voice. If a national vote comes up for war with country x, then I have a direct vote in the issue and so too does everyone else in all of the other child voting blocks.

The type of technology the op is talking about offers vastly superior types of organization possibilities.

Originally posted by watchitburn

Originally posted by Ethericplane
reply to post by sligtlyskeptical

 

And we should order the Military to retrieve our stolen money from the Illuminati. That would give every American about 5 million and get the economy back on track for future generations.

Do you realize what would happen if every American had $5million?

What would happen is a shift in power to the common man, for a few months until the mega rich found a way to screw them out of their 5 million with the help of a few people in congress and the whitehouse.

Originally posted by Ethericplane
Here is my latest post from occupy wall street.

I have been trying to get to the essence of what The People need to do, to take control of their own government; instead of begging criminals for respect from the streets:

Here are my thoughts so far:

The People will need:

1) Publically verifiable, constant, Internet Voting (to guarantee a reliable vote, 24/7)
2) A new law compelling government, and all its associates, to follow the popular vote
3) Audits of all government spending and money printing (we must control the money, this is key)
4) Organized, nationwide, tax withholding to defund our enemies (we must force our control on them and not let their laws scare us into sheep)

We could get this by next year if we worked at it. I say we go for it, because our government has a million problems, and even with the people passing many new laws it will still take years to find all the problems and vote them out of our country. Let's start now.

occupywallst.org...

You need to add NON-COMPLIANCE to the list..to control the mega corporations

If you want to withhold your deductions of the FED (Private Banks) your Employer (if you have a Job) Has a Form that can change your Deductions Just use the Maximum Dependents or the Tax Exempt part and you will take Home More money than you thought and at the End of the Year you just don't File. This is Not for everyone many can do this with no problem But The choice is yours and it can be done. just Don't feed the Beast. If everyone did this it would be better
than a Bank run 10 times over. And the Fed would Fall. Don't feed the Beast. Let it Starve. Many People withhold under
the Fact that their Money Deductions are being used for Murder. So We as People Have more Options to make a
Change and this is another way to do this. So Lets see how many of you want to Change this World Like the Occupiers
This is another Tool to Use and would Be Very Effective. Don't feed the Beast.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Simply not paying taxes, EN MASSE, would effectively bring the Government to their knees and within months, not years.

Yes! Not paying taxes is a great idea. When you figure out how to fix the roads, pay police, keep our elderly alive, and a whole host of things without taxes let me be the first one to know!

(sigh) I don't think the OP was suggesting that taxes be withheld as a new perm. way of doing things, and I certainly wasn't either. As a short term kick in the tail for our Government and to assist them in waking up to the fact the public IS mad, this IS serious and people aren't just going to fall back asleep in a few months and forget about the whole thing like the latest fad, that seems about as good an idea as any in the realm of 100% peaceful approaches.

If you want to withhold your deductions of the FED (Private Banks) your Employer (if you have a Job) Has a Form that can change your Deductions Just use the Maximum Dependents or the Tax Exempt part and you will take Home More money than you thought and at the End of the Year you just don't File. This is Not for everyone many can do this with no problem But The choice is yours and it can be done. just Don't feed the Beast. If everyone did this it would be better
than a Bank run 10 times over. And the Fed would Fall. Don't feed the Beast. Let it Starve. Many People withhold under
the Fact that their Money Deductions are being used for Murder. So We as People Have more Options to make a
Change and this is another way to do this. So Lets see how many of you want to Change this World Like the Occupiers
This is another Tool to Use and would Be Very Effective. Don't feed the Beast.

Get real. The entire "movement" is nothing but a parody.

reply to post by dolphinfan


I don't disagree with anything you said in your post. But what good is it to simply say something doesn't work and not offer something positive in return ?

I'd like to know what your opinion is regarding the solutions to these problems. Or do you think there are no solutions or, for that matter, no problems.

So, what's up ? You sound like you know what you're talking about. Give us a solution. Even a small one.

Originally posted by TsukiLunar
reply to post by Ethericplane

 

1) Publically verifiable, constant, Internet Voting (to guarantee a reliable vote, 24/7)

So, only people with internet can vote?

Or only the rich,

the 99% have no internet access.

(the USA is a small country - the world is very, very big)

The OP sound's alot like fascism to me shame this country is a Constitutional Republic.

Not a Democracy even tho they try as the might to brainwash people into that which is why that most hated pledge of alliegance is never said anymore.

Lays it out perfectly clear.

And "rule" poor word choice seriously poor The People Not the Government has the power in this country as per what the Constituion says protection from the Government and People from themselves.

That Constitution ain't just a piece of paper or a marxist slogan where there is no individualism.

Meh

reply to post by Ethericplane


I can't say that I agree completely with what OWS is doing but I do agree with some of their points. I do think that our goverment needs to be held responsible for the laws that they are passing, the way they mispend our tax dollars, how we are getting deeper and deeper into debt while they continue to guard and arm other countries and send billions of dollars worth of aid overseas while taxing us more. Here is a thought, for all of the working Americans, if we could get together as a group, raise your withholding exemptions so high that only minimal to no taxes will be taken out of your check. Then, refuse to pay taxes at all until the government starts respresenting "we the people" instead of lining their pockets, bailing out the rich, and changing their foreign policies so that they aren't giving away the farm to people that want to destroy America. This would take strong leadership, organization and alot of people willing to join in. You would have to have enough citizens willing to participate. If you had 3/4 of the country refusing to pay taxes, they couldn't arrest everybody for tax evasion so they would have to change their policies. Hit them in the pocketbooks! Then maybe they would listen!

Originally posted by neo96
That Constitution ain't just a piece of paper or a marxist slogan where there is no individualism.

You got that right, individualism is certainly part of the constitution, part of capitalism and part of greed.
Again, right wing ideas are so easy to assimilate with individualists, that they all agree.
Selfishness and individuality, yes those right wingers know and stick together! Well at least in their ideas.

I bet my life would be a lot easier if I didn't gave a crap about others and not expect everyone else too care about everyone in the world.
Sadly, I just do not understand this way of thinking and to be honest, it disgusts me.
Gives me chills and makes me dizzy.

reply to post by dolphinfan

When the folks who are paying for everything are not here to pay

They don't pay anything anyway so you have contradicted yourself.

The whole point of the wealthy is tax avoidance.

reply to post by TWILITE22


Yes, thank you, I will now at the top.

Oh #, too late to do that now, 4 hour edit window.....

reply to post by upstairsjim


Not sure what you mean by problems, but I would suggest that our current societal model, where 50% of the people don't may income taxes is a significant element as it provides zero incentive to ensure that the government is operating effectively. I merely incents voting for people who promise more. The goal should be to reduce taxes while expanding the percentage of people who actually pay them.

Ultimately we need jobs, not handouts and to create jobs it must be far easier to open and operate a business. Our regulatory environment stifles business. Environmental regulations which are absurd, permitting processes, EEOC overhead, Sarbanes/Oxley and the like provide a significant dissincentive to operating a business.

The government is insanely corrupt. I summarize a solution would be to:

-zero base the entire federal budget. Start with the assumption that all budgets are zero and build them back up with total transparency. Make the process transparent. Over 1/2 of the federal government would be eliminated, including massive cuts in defense.

-zero base all regulations, rejustify them, calculate the economic costs, analyze the confusion between state, local and federal with a bias on local regulations. Thousands of regulations would be eliminated and with them the cost of compliance and the workers who ensure compliance.

-end the revolving door between government and special interests, including corporations and groups that lobby government in a big way, such as labor unions. Make it illegal to work for the government or visa versa for 5 years - no switching sides and that includes Congressional staff.

The entire government needs to be redefined and the roll conformed to supporting economic expansion, not the expansion of the government/welfare state. The goal should be the elimination of the welfare state. There should be a safety net, but all the rest of it should be eliminated.