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Nothing in the Universe is Wrong
page: 2share:
reply to post by smithjustinb
If this is the message of this thread..time for me to make a quick exit..
All is one. There is no right or wrong. There may be for you, or for others, but not for me. Trust me though, I see how you would think that, I'm not oblivious. There is no good or bad either. We all can move beyond duality. Service to others, acceptance, truth, and unity; all in one package. The key is accepting "evil".
If this is the message of this thread..time for me to make a quick exit..
Originally posted by MemeticHarvest
Think you for your time.
Not sure if you meant to say that but either way that's actually true on so many levels.
As far as nothing in the universe being wrong it of course true ... and false.
So is nothing being right, something being wrong, or everything being right.
I could go on but I won't.
Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by gabby2011
Evil is subjective.
I realize this... but I dare anyone with half a heart to say there isn't some serious evil in this world..that is hurting innocent people everyday.
It is not a matter of balance or how you look at it.. its just WRONG ..plain and simple....and anyone who can be grateful for it..is a little unbalanced in my opinion.
That's my opinion, and its best I stay out of this thread..
I will never buy into those views...of evil being subjective.. and the whole "everything is one", spiritual type of beliefs.
edit on 27-10-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)
reply to post by AnotherYOU
You got it.
It just is.
Has been & always will be.
I was talking to my wife tonight about the big bang theory, & I asked the question, but what was before the big bang. Something was, & it become obvious that it doesn't matter how many times you answer what was before that & what was before that, you would still keep asking it again.
So the only answer has to be, just is.
You got it.
It just is.
Has been & always will be.
I was talking to my wife tonight about the big bang theory, & I asked the question, but what was before the big bang. Something was, & it become obvious that it doesn't matter how many times you answer what was before that & what was before that, you would still keep asking it again.
So the only answer has to be, just is.
Originally posted by gabby2011
That's my opinion, and its best I stay out of this thread..
Probably a good idea. It is obvious that we will not agree, so only arguments will procede. I don't want to argue, only learn.
The oil is pretty in a shell but when it causes cancer in someone you care about, not so good.
The universe recycles everything we do, good or bad. It doesn't care about us.
We do good or bad at our expense. The universe is like a machine. We must use it wisely.
My opinion. But I agree that bad or wrong things can become good things. Sometimes we don't really know what's best for ourselves or others. So doing wrong -can- be good.
But we should still do the right thing. Finding out that wrong can be good is always a surprise.
The universe recycles everything we do, good or bad. It doesn't care about us.
We do good or bad at our expense. The universe is like a machine. We must use it wisely.
My opinion. But I agree that bad or wrong things can become good things. Sometimes we don't really know what's best for ourselves or others. So doing wrong -can- be good.
But we should still do the right thing. Finding out that wrong can be good is always a surprise.
edit on 27-10-2011 by jonnywhite because: (no
reason given)
reply to post by smithjustinb
Woe to those who make of good evil and evil, good.
When JC said "resist not evil" he meant ignore it, give it no time or attention, and where you find it, forgive and if possible, transform, starting with yourself. A radical transformative forgiveness is the only solution to the problem of evil, which is a problem that cannot be denied.
Some people like to suggest that good and evil are cosmic forces in balance, what a crock - the whole creation is good, perfect whole and complete, and magnificent, as is the human being, and yes, the duality and should and should not, of the "knowledge of good and evil" created the opening for evil to enter the scene, which is why it makes perfect sense not to resist evil, where that which we resist, only persists, I get that, I understand that perfectly.
But this good is evil and evil good nonsense, or that the good can only be appreciated and enjoyed by contrast to the evil, and can't exist without the evil, is absurd and ridiculous, as is the part about accepting it or embracing it, as it is.
No, we must love the good and hate the evil, and work diligently to heal the wounds of the world which evil has inflicted.
My point, is that evil is a disease, a sickness, and it's unneccessary.
This frame of reference however I would be unable to understand if I was not a Christian philosopher and mystic of sorts. So absent the cross, without that understanding, I can easily understand how and why someone might move to that position of equating evil with the good, as a hope for healing and for the better, whereby the duality is rejected in favor of unity.
However, there are what I call the absurdities of injustices that stack up in history, from our own, to the "sins of the father", to that of the "elite" and ruling powers and principalities, and all through history, which does not leave a smile on our face when we ask the question "why"? Evil has abused us and/or our fellow man, and it's not acceptable, and the world would be a much much better and more enjoyable place with infinitely less of it. Evil is like a bad tree bearing bad fruit, which is good for nothing but to be ripped out by the roots and cast into the abyss (nothingness).
It takes courage to contend with it, and great loving compassion, you can't just stick it into an equation and go
evil = good
Unless the aim is to avoid the notion that there is Justice, and Mercy, something which Christianity delivers.
People are uncomfortable with anyting that contend directly with evil, and they will even accuse the one who's brave enough to try of being himself evil. I think the reason is because any real solution which is curative contends directly with the heart of the problem, and asks of us that we too have the courage to take it on, and face it down. But that takes work, the work of great love, so that, in serving justice, which makes no compromise with evil, there is the REAL opportunity for our good-willed, good-natured humor to be restored, with wholeness and integrity, allowing us to laugh again, wholeheartedly, in spite of whatever evil may remain, with faith, hope, and confidence, that all such evil, being a house divided, will ultimately fall, and then there is VICTORY, and celebration!
Woe to those who make of good evil and evil, good.
When JC said "resist not evil" he meant ignore it, give it no time or attention, and where you find it, forgive and if possible, transform, starting with yourself. A radical transformative forgiveness is the only solution to the problem of evil, which is a problem that cannot be denied.
Some people like to suggest that good and evil are cosmic forces in balance, what a crock - the whole creation is good, perfect whole and complete, and magnificent, as is the human being, and yes, the duality and should and should not, of the "knowledge of good and evil" created the opening for evil to enter the scene, which is why it makes perfect sense not to resist evil, where that which we resist, only persists, I get that, I understand that perfectly.
But this good is evil and evil good nonsense, or that the good can only be appreciated and enjoyed by contrast to the evil, and can't exist without the evil, is absurd and ridiculous, as is the part about accepting it or embracing it, as it is.
No, we must love the good and hate the evil, and work diligently to heal the wounds of the world which evil has inflicted.
My point, is that evil is a disease, a sickness, and it's unneccessary.
This frame of reference however I would be unable to understand if I was not a Christian philosopher and mystic of sorts. So absent the cross, without that understanding, I can easily understand how and why someone might move to that position of equating evil with the good, as a hope for healing and for the better, whereby the duality is rejected in favor of unity.
However, there are what I call the absurdities of injustices that stack up in history, from our own, to the "sins of the father", to that of the "elite" and ruling powers and principalities, and all through history, which does not leave a smile on our face when we ask the question "why"? Evil has abused us and/or our fellow man, and it's not acceptable, and the world would be a much much better and more enjoyable place with infinitely less of it. Evil is like a bad tree bearing bad fruit, which is good for nothing but to be ripped out by the roots and cast into the abyss (nothingness).
It takes courage to contend with it, and great loving compassion, you can't just stick it into an equation and go
evil = good
Unless the aim is to avoid the notion that there is Justice, and Mercy, something which Christianity delivers.
People are uncomfortable with anyting that contend directly with evil, and they will even accuse the one who's brave enough to try of being himself evil. I think the reason is because any real solution which is curative contends directly with the heart of the problem, and asks of us that we too have the courage to take it on, and face it down. But that takes work, the work of great love, so that, in serving justice, which makes no compromise with evil, there is the REAL opportunity for our good-willed, good-natured humor to be restored, with wholeness and integrity, allowing us to laugh again, wholeheartedly, in spite of whatever evil may remain, with faith, hope, and confidence, that all such evil, being a house divided, will ultimately fall, and then there is VICTORY, and celebration!
reply to post by smithjustinb
I don't wish to argue either..
Common sense is trying to teach me, and I am learning.. though not always willingly.
I don't wish to argue either..
Common sense is trying to teach me, and I am learning.. though not always willingly.
edit on 27-10-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason
given)
reply to post by SeeingBlue
'Before' the big bang it was now, after the big bang it was now and it still is now, eternally now.
The still still now.
Peaceful, silent and still, always now.
'Before' the big bang it was now, after the big bang it was now and it still is now, eternally now.
The still still now.
Peaceful, silent and still, always now.
I figure this out a long time ago. I wish more people could do.
We could do without a less anger and hate and wars in the world.
We could do without a less anger and hate and wars in the world.
reply to post by gabby2011
My post above is for you gabby, and for everyone who finds the notion of calling evil the balacing force of good, as a complimentary thing, unnerving and incongruent, or the idea that there's just no such thing, and that all victims therefore must be suffering from an illusion or worse, a victimhood they somehow chose. It doesn't work, this idea of there being no good and evil, no justice, or of evil/good being the yin/yang of the cosmos (talk about a PROJECTION of evil!), or worse, that good is evil and evil, good. It doesn't work, it doesn't grok, it makes no sense, and ought not be accepted.
That said, resist not evil.
So at the same time, we don't want to pay it any attention, focusing instead of making manifest the good.
It's a paradox, since there is evil in the world, and since those who are committed to being helpful need to contend with it, and of course, in a world gone mad, be prepared to be persecuted for contending with it, for taking a stand in relation to it. People don't like that, and neither does the devil (as a satanic principal of rebellion against the authority of God who is a God of love and who makes and made no compromise with sin and evil).
Sadly, few Christians have the degree of understanding that I do, because only the Christian possesses the entire frame of reference by which evil can be made to FLEE in the presence of the authority of Christ, who's great power and authority, including the authority OVER evil, and the power to make it flee, resided in his absolute obediance to the will of God as the will to love, which alone transcends the duality, while at the same time making no compromise whatsoever. In Christ, and in the love of Christ, it is possible to take a stand in relation to it, and that's powerful, formative, causative, and capable of moving whole mountains of historical causation. Good=evil on the other hand, or "can't have one without the other" or "evil is needed to make the good good" and "it's the way the world is", totally wimps out in the face of the greatest problem facing humanity, all throughout human history, and it's the kind of stance which evil would enjoy, having such a broad mandate if you will.
My post above is for you gabby, and for everyone who finds the notion of calling evil the balacing force of good, as a complimentary thing, unnerving and incongruent, or the idea that there's just no such thing, and that all victims therefore must be suffering from an illusion or worse, a victimhood they somehow chose. It doesn't work, this idea of there being no good and evil, no justice, or of evil/good being the yin/yang of the cosmos (talk about a PROJECTION of evil!), or worse, that good is evil and evil, good. It doesn't work, it doesn't grok, it makes no sense, and ought not be accepted.
That said, resist not evil.
So at the same time, we don't want to pay it any attention, focusing instead of making manifest the good.
It's a paradox, since there is evil in the world, and since those who are committed to being helpful need to contend with it, and of course, in a world gone mad, be prepared to be persecuted for contending with it, for taking a stand in relation to it. People don't like that, and neither does the devil (as a satanic principal of rebellion against the authority of God who is a God of love and who makes and made no compromise with sin and evil).
Sadly, few Christians have the degree of understanding that I do, because only the Christian possesses the entire frame of reference by which evil can be made to FLEE in the presence of the authority of Christ, who's great power and authority, including the authority OVER evil, and the power to make it flee, resided in his absolute obediance to the will of God as the will to love, which alone transcends the duality, while at the same time making no compromise whatsoever. In Christ, and in the love of Christ, it is possible to take a stand in relation to it, and that's powerful, formative, causative, and capable of moving whole mountains of historical causation. Good=evil on the other hand, or "can't have one without the other" or "evil is needed to make the good good" and "it's the way the world is", totally wimps out in the face of the greatest problem facing humanity, all throughout human history, and it's the kind of stance which evil would enjoy, having such a broad mandate if you will.
edit on 27-10-2011 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by gabby2011
Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by gabby2011
Evil is subjective.
I realize this...
Then you said
I will never buy into those views...of evil being subjective
edit on 27-10-2011 by gabby2011 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by NewAgeMan
All is lessons. Period. No good. No evil. Just lessons.
It may be said that all evil is relative, to the victim. What is it then, that the victim is supposed to be learning?
Originally posted by smithjustinb
Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by smithjustinb
I can't stand that argument, as if evil justifies the good, and hurting others is no different from loving and helping them, provided it's "balanced". It's bad philosophy, bad psychology, and bad theology, and it just doesn't "grok" at least not for me it doesn't. Forgiveness is important, and neccessary.
All is one. There is no right or wrong. There may be for you, or for others, but not for me. Trust me though, I see how you would think that, I'm not oblivious. There is no good or bad either. We all can move beyond duality. Service to others, acceptance, truth, and unity; all in one package. The key is accepting "evil".
Bad is good. Good is good. Good wins. Bad is arbitrary. Bad helps you learn good. That's all its there for. Good is just there because its there. So even bad is good. By accepting the bad, you make it good. Then you see that it has a purpose that serves goodness. Since it is serving goodness, then it can't be bad.
When you accept everything, including the bad, then bad and good both disappear, and you're just left with truth. The truth is good even though there is no good. That's how you know the good wins.
SUMMARY
When the bad and good become one, there is no bad or good. But that unity is good. If it sounds like a paradox, it is. Sorry if I was confusing... I'm actually a little confused myself.
You dew kNot accept ANYTHING! You Understand it for what it is, then you use the experience to make yourself better for it.
To Accept something is to Become it (aka: ignore), but to Understand something is the something Becoming you and if you are kNOwTHING but Love, that's when you win!
What dew you think the ending of the Matrix was all about?
Ribbit
evil and good are human concepts made to define the duality of existence, the polarity of experience.
both equally valid but none absolute.
just the spectrum of human emotions, yin and yang.
you cannot separate them
love is good
love is evil too
ssdd...
remember that, that true universal love we all talk about as absolute, that love is so absolute that it rejects nothing, not even its own absence.
its silly that we as humans still get caught up in emotion over what we like and what we dont like
we are here to FEEL everything, not get overwhelmed by it.
im not in this existence to be for or against anything, im here to experience whatever.
so for all of those who are against evil, that makes you evil too, dummies.
being trully alive and awake is consciously understanding and knowing why how where and why we have to be either good or evil.
as we are both or none
its all subjective
both equally valid but none absolute.
just the spectrum of human emotions, yin and yang.
you cannot separate them
love is good
love is evil too
ssdd...
remember that, that true universal love we all talk about as absolute, that love is so absolute that it rejects nothing, not even its own absence.
its silly that we as humans still get caught up in emotion over what we like and what we dont like
we are here to FEEL everything, not get overwhelmed by it.
im not in this existence to be for or against anything, im here to experience whatever.
so for all of those who are against evil, that makes you evil too, dummies.
being trully alive and awake is consciously understanding and knowing why how where and why we have to be either good or evil.
as we are both or none
its all subjective
edit on 27/10/11 by AnotherYOU because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by gabby2011
Originally posted by smithjustinb
reply to post by gabby2011
Evil is subjective.
I realize this... but I dare anyone with half a heart to say there isn't some serious evil in this world..that is hurting innocent people everyday.
It is not a matter of balance or how you look at it.. its just WRONG ..plain and simple....and anyone who can be grateful for it..is a little unbalanced in my opinion.
That's my opinion, and its best I stay out of this thread..
I will never buy into those views...of evil being subjective.. and the whole "everything is one", spiritual type of beliefs.
I agree with you Gabby but where Justin is going astray at is what if everyone here is dew'n exactly what they are here to dew, including yourself?
What if you are good because that's your program?
What if the bad peeps are bad because that's their program?
Then all programs are dew'n exactly what they are programmed to dew and the purpose of this is going down as planned.
Have you ever thought this thing you call Life is planned?
Ribbit
Originally posted by smithjustinb
Originally posted by gabby2011
That's my opinion, and its best I stay out of this thread..
Probably a good idea. It is obvious that we will not agree, so only arguments will procede. I don't want to argue, only learn.
Wuss!
Ribbit
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