US Marine in critical condition after OccupyOakland

reply to post by gamesmaster63


In reality, protecting people is not the mission of law enforcement. Their purpose is to enforce the law, to administer the will of the state. Every LEO knows that as well. Everything else used is a PR slogan. People misunderstand this always and many LEOs even spout off like smart arses about it as a point of fact nowadays. I support Law Enforcement overall but the mentality and status quo has gotten out of hand in my experience and opinion. Just like anything else, there is good and bad. Citizens need to be more informed about what I have mentioned here though.

Originally posted by Flint2011
reply to post by gamesmaster63

 

In reality, protecting people is not the mission of law enforcement. Their purpose is to enforce the law, to administer the will of the state. Every LEO knows that as well. Everything else used is a PR slogan. People misunderstand this always and many LEOs even spout off like smart arses about it as a point of fact nowadays. I support Law Enforcement overall but the mentality and status quot has gotten out of hand in my experience and opinion. Just like anything else, there is good and bad. Citizens need to be more informed about what I have mentioned here though.

100% agree and I think that's a distinction, though at first glance subtle, that is missed by most. Police exist to keep the masses in order and to keep whatever status quo is currently envogue, including enforcing whatever law is currently on the books (again tied to status quo). They aren't there to protect anyone but will do so as a secondary job description.

Originally posted by GrimTroll
reply to post by RedParrotHead

 

I realize it is extreme, but thats how it is.

Hold them accountable in a system that will protect them 80% of the time?

This is getting BEYOND ridiculous - they only let you keep protesting to let you think you're doing something.

This is giving you an illusion of power/change.

No change will happen, until someone dies as a result of being fed up!


Speaking of which, where is another crazed IRS guy to fly a plane into some government establishment when you need'em?

edit on 27-10-2011 by GrimTroll because: (no reason given)

If peaceful protest is the way to achieve the change we want - All I have to say is, if they decide to just shut us up, they have that power, they have the individuals who are STUPID and COWARDLY enough to join this movement against the people!

Also, we do not fight wars in other countries with cardboard signs, we go over with weapons and fire-power.
You want change? MAKE THEM FEEL IT!

If you want something done, you have to take action and DO it.
not just stand and talk about it, even if you are outside with a thousand other people doing it!

edit on 27-10-2011 by GrimTroll because: (no reason given)

NONE ARE MORE HOPELESSLY ENSLAVED THAN THOSE WHO FALSELY BELIEVE THEY ARE FREE

Originally posted by jlv70


Here's a pic taken before he got shot, Olsen and the sailor are standing directly in front of the police line. Olsen and the sailor are sandwiched between the main body of protesters and the police.
Given his position it looks to me like the police intentionally fired the gas canister directly at his face.
Here's a link with video that shows it all a little better, Olsen is at at 3:30 in the video.
Link:www.businessinsider.com...

Yeah I don't see any "fog of war" scenario there. That's just cold blooded murder.........

reply to post by v1rtu0s0


So the guy died?

Originally posted by Aggie Man
If this Marine dies, I'm fairly certain that WILL be the straw that breaks the camels back.

On a side note, can you imagine what things would be like if the OWS protesters brought their guns to the protests like the tea baggers did? Would we have seen this same kind of response from the police? Or would we have seen the same "tolerance" given to the tea baggers packing heat?

edit on 26-10-2011 by Aggie Man because: (no reason given)

No, but i can see how well it would be in spreading the message. That is, not at all.

Also, what would happen if when tempers were high(they were) and someone got shot? Now you got a crime scene in Oakland and extremely bad publicity.

Think about what would happen if it escalated into a WAR. Not only is this very bad, it also defeats the whole purpose. Which is of course 99% v. 1%. (Cops = 99%) (protesters = 99%) (horrified observers = 99%)(Men standing unharmed at windows laughing manically = 1%)

So, that is probably the worst decision the protesters could have made.

when peaceful resolution becomes impossible, violent revolution becomes inevitable. - John F. Kennedy.

I believe that people complaining about this incident are way too soft. Guess what, if police have to intervene where hundreds of people with strong opinions are, not every protestor is gonna get a shoulder massage. Suck it up. The police have a job to do, and if they are told to throw tear gas cans, then so be it, not every throw is gonna be Dan Marino-esque. This is the same reason protestors who call "foul" don't advance in life, because someone is always "throwing tear gas cans at me." In football terms, run a different passing route; you will eventually get the good pass and score a touchdown.

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by v1rtu0s0

 

So the guy died?

No, he's not dead AFAIK but he's in a serious condition in hospital.

reply to post by capone1


I hope the day never comes when you are that person getting hit with a gas canister, or rubber bullet against your will. I agree that it is terrible that people were hurt and I agree that people out there should be more prepared but I don't agree with your stance at all. People have a right to complain about this incident.

Originally posted by Flint2011
reply to post by gamesmaster63

 

In reality, protecting people is not the mission of law enforcement. Their purpose is to enforce the law, to administer the will of the state. Every LEO knows that as well. Everything else used is a PR slogan. People misunderstand this always and many LEOs even spout off like smart arses about it as a point of fact nowadays. I support Law Enforcement overall but the mentality and status quo has gotten out of hand in my experience and opinion. Just like anything else, there is good and bad. Citizens need to be more informed about what I have mentioned here though.

edit on 10-27-2011 by Flint2011 because: Typo

So should every police officer take a bystander vote whenever someone breaks a law?

I'm sure there are a lot of Marines out there that feel the same way about this that this guy does.

Marines around the world are outraged by the injuries inflicted by police on Scott Olsen at Tuesday's Occupy Oakland protests. Olsen is in a medically-induced coma after getting hit in the head by a police projectile. Read more: www.businessinsider.com...

Source:www.businessinsider.com...

Originally posted by Flint2011
reply to post by capone1

 

I hope the day never comes when you are that person getting hit with a gas canister, or rubber bullet against your will. I agree that it is terrible that people were hurt and I agree that people out there should be more prepared but I don't agree with your stance at all. People have a right to complain about this incident.

People DEFINATELY have a right to complain. Don't get me wrong. But where is the line? Someone is ALWAYS getting offended, that won't stop, so where does the line start? I'm not trying to battle, I want an honest answer.

reply to post by capone1


I didn't say that so stop trying to bait an argument. People have a right to complain. Plain and simple. I didn't disagree with LEOs having to do there job. Just pointing out what you want to avoid. If you want to troll in a thread then try to stay on point at least.

reply to post by capone1


I wish you would have stated this in your prior post. Now I feel bad for calling you out as a troll. My bad. I don't see what your point of debate is regarding where the line is drawn on people having a valid complaint about the extent of harm brought about during this situation though? Where does the line end regarding LEOs going to far? All valid concerns I have as a whole. Everyone has there role and people need to know there limitations and be accou8ntable regardless of which side they are on.

Originally posted by Flint2011
reply to post by capone1

 

I didn't say that so stop trying to bait an argument. People have a right to complain. Plain and simple. I didn't disagree with LEOs having to do there job. Just pointing out what you want to avoid. If you want to troll in a thread then try to stay on point at least.

Troll? No sir. I respect your opinion. And I mean this question with all my heart: How else can you control thousands of people with a strong opinion? Try talking with them? Make a deal? I agree with a lot of what "Occupy" is doing. But when protestors cry about tear gas cans, they lose credibilty in my opinion. What else do they expect?

reply to post by jlv70


I am displeased that a person was hurt overall, the fact that he is a Marine is just a means of exploitation being used by media and OWS in my view. NO ONE deserves what that young man had happen to him.

Originally posted by Flint2011
reply to post by capone1

 

I wish you would have stated this in your prior post. Now I feel bad for calling you out as a troll. My bad. I don't see what your point of debate is regarding where the line is drawn on people having a valid complaint about the extent of harm brought about during this situation though? Where does the line end regarding LEOs going to far? All valid concerns I have as a whole. Everyone has there role and people need to know there limitations and be accou8ntable regardless of which side they are on.

It's all good brother. I love you just as well, and agree with what you're saying. I guess what my question is, what's the realistic situation for protestors?

reply to post by capone1


I get what you are saying but it just doesn't fly with me. I can't be sorry for not agreeing. Thank you for showing effort in expressing yourself more clearly for me though. Much appreciated.

Originally posted by Flint2011
reply to post by jlv70

 

I am displeased that a person was hurt overall, the fact that he is a Marine is just a means of exploitation being used by media and OWS in my view. NO ONE deserves what that young man had happen to him.

You are absolutely right.