E-Cat -The Greatest Invention of All Time?!

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by flexy123
*) I am aware there exists thread about this, but i thought it would legitimate a new thread.

In particular, i would like to hear how such a tech would change our world - assuming that the e-cat device is real and turns out working.

How do you think would that invention change our world? What effect would it have on the middle-east, on America? Would our economy FIRST collapse before it enters a new area where energy literally has become too cheap to even meter anymore?

It doesn't and it won't work. If it does we will still be metered, and the technology will be patented. You will have to buy the machine, and it will have to be serviced by their certified technicians. You will still pay plenty. Rossi has never claimed this is a free energy device. It's a more efficient way to make money, if it works, which it wont.

The ramifications IN THE LONG RUN are significant ---> It would mean we will be independent from fossil energy sources like oil/coal etc. as well as nuclear energy and whatever other "alternative" energy like solar/air etc. (which are often not efficient enough)

Nickel is supposed to be ultra cheap and available in abundance...and don't forget that the problem of getting rid of nuclear waste would also be instantly be gone.

For the sake of it, let's just assume this works....yes in the beginning we will be metered, someone will sell those devices...we will get power "somewhat" cheaper...but in the end the cost to produce this power will "almost" be zero, it's not even remotely on par of cost of power NOW.

I am little surprised you are convinced "it doesnt work"..because according to various sources there is already a bunch of devices in service to power plants..and it SEEMS the device is actually more or less ready for customer production already and got a CE certification?

There is also an estimate price for such a device for the home ($3500 + $1500 for the generator)...mind you this is in the early stages of all this. So..skepticism..yes....but i hope it turns out legit.

I don't understand why people think it is impossible. The only problem I see is energy conversion laws but laws are only laws because it's simply what we consistently observe. The term "law" is harmful to science as it makes us think we are bound by some rule.

None of that matters since it's going to be proven whether or not it works. As far as all you Debbie-Downers saying "oh, it will just be metered because of the evil NWO yadda yadda" need to realize that we don't know how hard this will be to create. It could be a simple design built with cheap components. As long as this isn't in the hands of private interests and as long as the government can hold on to it, people will have near-free energy.

This would absolutely change the face of the world and flip it upside-down. Everything in economics boils down to energy. It's literally what drives humanity. If it were unlimited, then those crazy evolved society concepts people have been playing with would finally be possible. It could spell the end of capitalism as we know it.

Originally posted by Cuervo
I don't understand why people think it is impossible. The only problem I see is energy conversion laws but laws are only laws because it's simply what we consistently observe. The term "law" is harmful to science as it makes us think we are bound by some rule.

They're called "laws" because time and time again, in laboratories throughout the world and ages, the experiments yield the same result. That's not to say that they cannot ever be shown to be incomplete, rather to demonstrate a genuine violation of a physical law, strong evidence that has been independently and objectively verified has to be presented. Laws aren't harmful to science, but expecting the scientific community to take violations of physical laws seriously on the most scant and questionable/non-existent evidence certainly would be.

Originally posted by john_bmth

Originally posted by Cuervo
I don't understand why people think it is impossible. The only problem I see is energy conversion laws but laws are only laws because it's simply what we consistently observe. The term "law" is harmful to science as it makes us think we are bound by some rule.

They're called "laws" because time and time again, in laboratories throughout the world and ages, the experiments yield the same result. That's not to say that they cannot ever be shown to be incomplete, rather to demonstrate a genuine violation of a physical law, strong evidence that has been independently and objectively verified has to be presented. Laws aren't harmful to science, but expecting the scientific community to take violations of physical laws seriously on the most scant and questionable/non-existent evidence certainly would be.

I know this is a side-topic but I wanted to clarify what I said. I don't believe "laws" are harmful, I believe our dubbing them "laws" are harmful to the spirit of scientific inquiry. A more appropriate term would be something like "persistent notion" or "consistent observation". People claim to witness exceptions to these "laws" all the time but those are not repeatable under laboratory settings because they are exceptions and not the norm. The Holomovement model actually accounts for this and sort of shows how the whole standard physics model is flawed.

In any case, it will either work or it won't on the 28th so I guess we'll just see.

Originally posted by Cuervo
I know this is a side-topic but I wanted to clarify what I said. I don't believe "laws" are harmful, I believe our dubbing them "laws" are harmful to the spirit of scientific inquiry. A more appropriate term would be something like "persistent notion" or "consistent observation". People claim to witness exceptions to these "laws" all the time but those are not repeatable under laboratory settings because they are exceptions and not the norm. The Holomovement model actually accounts for this and sort of shows how the whole standard physics model is flawed.

Maybe you should edit the Wikipedia article that discusses the "law of the Holomovement" to "consistent notion of the holomovement"?

It seems like your alternative pursuits aren't getting you away from the concept of laws:

en.wikipedia.org... ment:_Holonomy

Also, when people claim to "witness exceptions to these "laws" and the exceptions can't be observed under laboratory settings, which is more likely? That the laboratory observations are wrong, or that the person making the extraordinary claim without extraordinary evidence was wrong? Normally, it's the latter, Bohm's new agey metaphysical law of the holomovement not withstanding.

And Rossi, is the latter, until he provides some credible evidence.

And stop promoting laws which will harm scientific inquiry like Bohm's law of the holomovement! (just kidding!)

Exactly what new discoveries have been made as a result of Bohm's topsy-turvy metaphysical approach? He sold some books, but I'm not aware that he really advanced science.

At least Rossi will actually make a contribution if his thing actually works, which remains to be seen. And I'm not holding my breath.

Originally posted by flexy123
I am little surprised you are convinced "it doesnt work"..because according to various sources there is already a bunch of devices in service to power plants..

Do you have any sources for that?

I never heard or saw anything to confirm that.

Which power plants?

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by flexy123
I am little surprised you are convinced "it doesnt work"..because according to various sources there is already a bunch of devices in service to power plants..

Do you have any sources for that?

I never heard or saw anything to confirm that.

Which power plants?

peswiki.com...:Andrea_Rossi%27s_Cold_Fusion_Energy_Catalyzer_%28E-Cat%29:_Frequently_Asked_Questions
--->
freeenergytruth.blogspot.com...

Mind you i cannot vouch for the seriousity of those sources, just citing what i read.

How many e-cats are in continuous operation today? - 97
How many geographic locations are e-cats running today? - 4
Are there any e-cats running in the US with businesses you own or individuals you trust? - YES

So to recap on this, Rossi is saying that at this moment there are 97 e-cats installed and working accross 4 different countries, with some already installed in the businesses of trusted individuals.

The 4 countries are presumably USA (Rossi's Company Leonardo Corp), Italy, Greece and it's anyone's guess what the 4th one is.

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Maybe you should edit the Wikipedia article that discusses the "law of the Holomovement" to "consistent notion of the holomovement"?

You got me there!

In any case, I'm an adherent to both Bohm and Pibram in regards to definitions of reality. My point was that if this machine turned the color purple into unicorns that, in turn, could be ground up in a machine made of peanutbutter and converted into energy, then that's exactly what it will do. It doesn't matter how many theories it crushes or how many assumptions it shatters. It will do whatever it does.

reply to post by Cuervo

Just remember what Feynman said, that we should strive to understand nature as it reveals itself to us, not as we want to see it or as we expect it to be. It seem like you have expectations for how you think it should be. I think you might want to heed his advice beginning at about 2:20



I'm still waiting for Rossi to reveal if he actually has something that works. Until then, it's a little premature to start rewriting the laws of physics

Originally posted by Arbitrageur


I'm still waiting for Rossi to reveal if he actually has something that works. Until then, it's a little premature to start rewriting the laws of physics

Or to cite them for reasons you can't do something. That's all I was saying. We'll see. Either way, it will make the 28th interesting.

I have been following this for over a year and believe it to be real.
The cost of electricity with this technology is about 1 cent per KWatt hour.
If the technology works the grid will soon become obsolete.
Cars will be built that can go for 6 months to year before a refill and that would be less than 10 dollars.
OPEC would be done, no more power as the demand will be greatly gone.
Everything will cost less with trucking costs greatly reduced and factory energy costs reduced.
Food could be grown in doors year around, starvation will disappear.
Water could be desalinated cheap, so much of the world would have abundant water.

The changes are endless and it will be very disruptive as a new economy emerges. This could be the biggest invention of the last 100 years.

The 1 MWatt demo is on the 28th, lets hope it goes well.

It will probly be Fail as in No Go here...

But my hopes are it isnt....

Guys, we will know the test results soon. This is some really important stuff, IMO. Some of the people here expected the date of October 28th to be special and the world to change, I really hope this is it.

I recommend you this site for live updates regarding the E-Cat Megawatt test: peswiki.com...:October_28%2C_2011_Test_of_the_One_Megawatt_E-Cat

I also was very suspicious, but then I read and learnt more and, hell the guy can pull it off!
Now, regarding the small to none media coverage, in the link I've provided above you can read:

"The lack of coverage from the mainstream media is not due to lack of interest but from the lack of cooperation from Andrea Rossi. He has turned a lot of media away who have wanted to come in. The AP writer has gained Rossi's trust over time, and hence was invited to be here today.
Rossi will be sending us all the data this evening.
Wish I could say more, but it will have to wait. Great day so far."

Let's update here in this thread on ATS, when I find some new info I'll post it.

Keep your fingers crossed!

yes i am following this today, no concrete information YET, but some tweets etc. are in good, positive spirits. Have to wait til the the evening to get more.

When is the info going to be posted im in the UK so not sure what times I should come back and check. Also perhaps someone should make a copy of the contents of the website if tests come back with good results. Last thing we need is for everything to go offline for "reconstruction" of something.

On his blog and website, they are stating they kicked out the Italian press and only the AP is there. Also, the hourly blog updates he promised were blocked by the "customer". There was one update that sounded promising: Passerini tweets, “We are self-sustaining with an abundant buffet )” Sounds like they are eating well!

We'll know by this evening as they are releasing an official report by midnight tonight. They are +1GMT so if you are in the states, it will be 4pm-7pm.

Finally, another update.

# Andrea Rossi October 28th, 2011 at 10:37 AM FIRST INFORMATION REGARDING THE 1 MW PLANT TEST: WE SARTED REGULARLY THE TEST THIS MORNING . EVERYTHING IS GOING WELL SO FAR. THE 1 MW E-CAT IS WORKING IN SELF SUSTAINING. TONIGHT I WILL PUBLISH THE NON SECRET REPORT THAT THE CUSTOMER WILL RELEASE. WARM REGARDS, I HAVE TO RETURN TO THE PLANT. SORRY, I CANNOT ANSWER TO THE MANY COMMENTS I AM RECEIVING. I WILL PUBLISH THEM PROBABLY I WILL NEVER FIND THE TIME TO ANSWER. WARMEST REGARDS TO ALL, ANDREA ROSSI

I have doubts that the report they will release today will be conclusive..it simply would take some time to analyze such data (IMO)...but..well i hope anyway.

Originally posted by flexy123
I have doubts that the report they will release today will be conclusive..it simply would take some time to analyze such data (IMO)...but..well i hope anyway.

I think the AP report will be conclusive enough. They will either report that it works and is not a scam or they will report that it isn't. That will be enough to change the world (or not).

PRELIMINARY UPDATE:

Q&A just finished; reading of results; 470 kW maintained continuously during self-sustain; customer satisfied; sale made; more later.

plus [RUMOR];

[Vo]

ismaying rumors about October 28 test Jed Rothwell Fri, 28 Oct 2011 11:34:00 -0700 I have heard that observers of today's tests are only being allowed to look at the equipment for a few minutes at a time, and they are not being introduced to the engineers who are taking the data.

They are not being given a chance to establish the bona fides of these engineers, or to confirm that they are fully independent from Rossi. If this is true then it goes without saying these results will have zero credibility.

If this is true then Rossi has once again taken a golden opportunity to convince the world his claims are true, and used it to make himself look like a crook. I hope this is not true. Whatever happens, I am sure we will get the full story. The reporters there can be relied upon to tell us the truth. If they are not allowed to interview the engineers and they cannot independently confirm the data, they will say so.

I am sure Rossi knows they will tell the truth, so it seems unlikely he would impose such outrageous conditions. Unfortunately, he has often done outrageous things, such as telling people they are not allowed to measure the temperature with their own instruments. - Jed

all from here:

peswiki.com...:October_28%2C_2011_Test_of_the_One_Megawatt_E-Cat