"Causes and Necessity of taking up Arms" 1775. Are we there yet?

back then it was musket vs musket

anyone wanna take on a drone ?

lets just vote 'em out !

No where near that.

If your having to ask *are we there yet*
then you will know we are not..

When we are there, there will be no questions
about it and 300 million Americans will know
it also..

IMHO : Contrary to popular imagery; You can't kill "the system" with a rifle. Even if violence flared and an entire class of"leaders" fell to an angry mob we would tend to naturally setup elections to fill seats. the laws are still on the"books".

Anyone who thinks this country will be fixed peacefully, is quite simply gone upstairs. There is no such thing.

Originally posted by LightSpeedDriver
Maybe I didn't read it right, but according to point 4, the OWS protests need to continue for another 9 years and 11 months or thereabouts?

Actually, what is meant is that the colonists petitioned the crown and tried legal means of addressing their grievances for around ten years while all these things were going on. They were ignored and after ten years they felt they had tried enough taking the normal channels. If all the other things hadn't continued or increased, they may have not felt a reason to take up arms.

Originally posted by upstairsjim
reply to post by TheMindWar

 

So, if you want to applaud [encourage ] others to take up arms, I have to ask, are you also willing to do the same, or are planning on sitting on the sideline and watching like you're at a football game ? Guess what, there are no sidelines in this scenario.

Good luck, grasshopper, you're going to need it if the bullets start to fly.

I really should have made this clear at the start of this thread. I am not advocating an armed revolt against the U.S. Government. I'm simply trying to compare our situation today with that of the colonists in 1775. Do we have it as bad as they did and therefore must take up arms today? I don't think so and I had hoped that by creating a check list those people on ATS who may think that taking arms is necessary today might change their minds. I had initially desired that people would confirm what points the government had crossed the line on and what points were left to go.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't like football or sitting on the sidelines.

I really truly hope it doesn't come to war.

It would be terrible.

How many dead brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers?

Anybody read of the Civil war?

I'm almost crying thinking about it.

Everyone and I mean EVERY SINGLE CITIZEN has to pay attention and vote for the right person.

IT IS PARAMOUNT. And no, I don't know who the right candidate is.

I know it isn't Obama. it def wasn't Bush either.

It is VERY important in our system of a Constitutional Republic.

Taking up arms against your brothers should be a last resort.

--LEARN WHO YOU'RE VOTING FOR PEOPLE--

This may be our last chance to save The Republic.

AT THE CLOSE OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION, Benjamin Franklin was asked what type of government the Constitution was bringing into existence. Franklin replied, “A republic, if you can keep it.”

I've numbered the list and added examples of how the government may have crossed the line after each point. Hopefully this will get more people to post and add to it.

1. The Legislature must show "an inordinate passion" for unjustifiable power that is rejected by the constitution.
Sounds like business as usual for our politicians in the last 20 years.

2. The people are not successful in legal contests against the Government in regards to truth and laws.
We can't fight city hall and be successful can we?

3. Our politicians and leaders, can't be chosen by the people (ie. no vote or fixed voting), are exempt from the laws and are not subject to the people's control.
Vote fraud is ongoing but debatable.

4. The people have to have tried peaceful means of changing the government for at least ten years without results.
If we put the starting point in the late 1960s, we've been at it for fifty plus years now.

5. Have a purpose of enslaving the people and States.
Many conspiracy theories claim this is true.

6. Fall into confusion, gradually losing prosperity.
Look around and see for yourself that this is true.

7. Give and grant our (people or State's) money without our consent.
Federal and State tax transfers and redistribution, bailouts

8. Deprive us (the people) of trial by jury in cases affecting both life and property.
REX-84 allows FEMA to deal with national security giving them jurisdiction above congress, allowing them to detain and incarcerate anyone without trial.

9. Suspend the legislature of one of the States.
Hasn't happened yet that I know of.

10. Interdict (commanding that) all commerce (go) to the capital of another (other than the people or State).
Bankster bailouts?

11. Fundamentally alter the form of government established by charter (the U.S. constitution).
FEMA, Homeland Security, Patriot Act

12. Exempt the "murderers" (police or troops) of citizens from legal trial and punishment.
There are many examples of this at every level of government.

13. Create a dangerous despotism in a neighboring country.
"Fast and Furious" - Firearms sent to Mexico, let's not forget the contras.

14. Quarter soldiers (house in citizen owned buildings) in times of peace.
Eminent domain and Defense Authorization Act of 2007.

15. Transport citizens to foreign countries to be tried for committing certain offenses.
Extraordinary rendition.

16. Create statutes declaring that the government can make laws to bind us in all cases whatsoever.
USA Patriot Act, Section 802

17. Establish a perpetual auction of taxation where State bids against State, to extort taxes from the people at the point of a gun.
Sounds like a description of our present system of taxation.

18. Cut off commercial intercourse of whole States, with foreign countries, and with each other.
Hasn't happened yet.

19. Prohibit States from the fisheries on which they depend in the seas near their coasts.
Commercial fishing restrictions and moratoriums ie. 2009 moratorium on fishing the Beaufort Sea

20. Have the military occupy a couple of important cities causing destruction, death and injury.
Hasn't happened yet.

21. Confiscate guns under false pretenses then detain the gun owners and take all their property.
I'm sure there are many cases of this happening.

22. Falsely accuse the citizens and "declare them all, either by name or description, to be rebels and traitors", supersede the common law and exercise martial law.
Hasn't happened yet but could with Homeland Security and Patriot Act.

I'd like to see some opinions on this!

I've edited the 12th point on the list and added links to examples. I'll be adding examples with links as I find them to keep this post rolling.

CS (Causes and Necessity) Point 12c

12. Exempt the "murderers" (a.police, b.troops, c.government & d.corporate officials) of citizens from legal trial and punishment.

Example:
Here on ATS is a post about Ex-President George W. Bush's immunity. Apparently our Federal Government can get Bush off the hook in Canada.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is the source link from Van Observer:

ht.ly...

Here is the main points quoted from the article:

B.C. intervened to halt Bush torture case by David P. Ball Posted: Oct 26th, 2011

British Columbia's criminal justice branch – under the attorney general – intervened to shut down a torture case against the former U.S. president (George W. Bush), even after a provincial court set a second hearing for January 9, 2012.

That day in court was cancelled after the CJB intervened, but the branch never in fact contacted the attorney general of Canada, MacKenzie confirmed, but instead consulted with federal prosecutors.

“If George Bush were not the former president of the United States, this might have been looked at quite differently. These laws are on the books in Canada to be able to prosecute people alleged to be involved in torture.”

MacKenzie acknowledged the Bush case is “an unusual matter,” but said the decision to shut down the prosecution was unrelated to merit of nearly 4,000 pages of evidence submitted, but rather based solely on the lack of attorney general consent – which he said is required for cases to proceed for crimes committed outside Canada.

Now human rights groups demanding Bush's arrest for torture – including Amnesty International – are pondering their next steps, which might include seeking censure of Canada at the United Nations for its “failure to comply with its obligations,” Eisenbrandt said. In any case, the organizations plan to continue to pursuit of the former president, he said.

I forgot to include a couple of examples for point 12. Exempt the "murderers" of citizens from legal trial and punishment.

You have the Kent State massacre, Wounded Knee and Ruby Ridge to think of a few off the top of my head. I'll need to do a little research to see if those who pulled the trigger got off the hook or not. I'm sure there are many incidents with the police that apply here as well.

I believe we havenow reached that point with NDAA and SOPA and the illegal checkpoints being inteoduced slowly, the checkpoint we the final key for me personally, introduction of checkpoints must be done slowly to avoid public awareness.

I think these checkpoints should be taken out, but thats just my opinion, also i believe the headquarters of the TSA and vehicles should also be taken out, vehicles should be taken out at night while non-mobile and parked up.

Just throwing a few military ideas out there, from a couple of books I have read

Originally posted by TheMindWar
I believe we havenow reached that point with NDAA and SOPA and the illegal checkpoints being inteoduced slowly, the checkpoint we the final key for me personally, introduction of checkpoints must be done slowly to avoid public awareness.

I think these checkpoints should be taken out, but thats just my opinion, also i believe the headquarters of the TSA and vehicles should also be taken out, vehicles should be taken out at night while non-mobile and parked up.

Just throwing a few military ideas out there, from a couple of books I have read

I'm not really certain how to take NDAA and SOPA yet, of course there is plenty of room for these to be easily misused. Check points sound like interfering with interstate (or even intrastate) commerce. Thanks for the post MindWar.

I personally think that people should be on no doubt that the voting massive fraud being committed by the establishment gives them the right to stand up and take thier country back by force now.

This is only my opinion and America needs a strong leader to get behind to take thier country back. I think looking at the constitution every american has a duty to take thier country back by force becuase if they dont then they can say goodbye to the dream.

Of course this is only my opinion, but the way I see it, these corporate fascist extremists are never going to willing hand back power to the american people. (plus I want to know whats in Area 51 )

reply to post by TheMindWar


Thanks for your post Mind War. Perhaps you're suggesting we need a modern declaration of "Causes and Necessity of taking up Arms". That sounds like a whole other thread to me.

Here's a similar post to this one.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I recommend reading this post if you have read this one.

MSB

If its not time to stand up now then when will it be time?

Thought this was worth bumping at this point in history.

Originally posted by TheMindWar
If its not time to stand up now then when will it be time?

Thought this was worth bumping at this point in history.

How about when people are not living better than ever have in the most peaceful prosperous time in human history? Why would anybody want a revolution that would leave whomever had the most guns in charge and so afraid of the otherside that we would be in state of martial law for eternity. The last thing I would ever want is the type people who I see talking about a revolution running things. A worse outcome I can not see.

If one of our fifty states officially tries to secede from the union and Uncle Sam says no way, then its time for revolution. That simple.

Can our current government be fixed? doubtfull

I've said it before, we are way to extreme on both sides. At this point there is no middle ground, just an abyss. Its time for a divorce America.

Thanks for the new comments guys. Stars for putting the OP back up there.

reply to post by Seventhdoor


7thdoor....dude....yes
you posted.."I think the best possible situation for a country is to have a truly benevolent King"...
that's exactly what we have coming....spot-on....that's the bible story, the new born King is what the Angels said.