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There are more MRI machines in just Phoenix AZ than all of Canada. I've watched people wait months for their turn to have a hernia operation in Canada.
Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by ignant
WOW! A few New York City doctors and nurses support OWS? What a shock! Who would have thought there were liberal doctors and nurses in New York?
Everything I’ve read indicates that the majority of healthcare providers do not want socialized medicine. OWS is anti-free-market. If there is no free market you are left with socialized medicine. Instead of those who can afford having access to “good” healthcare, no one will have “good” healthcare as the level of quality of the over-exploited system drops. Eventually the entire system will crash as countless petty-problem healthcare-seekers flood in.
www.forbes.com...
The Jackson & Coker survey joins a large stack of research with similar findings. In February, the National Physicians Survey discovered that more than three times as many doctors believed that the quality of American health care would “deteriorate” rather than “improve” under ObamaCare. Nine of ten physicians think ObamaCare will have a negative impact on their profession. On average, physicians treating Medicare beneficiaries receive 81% of the rate private insurers pay. For Medicaid patients, reimbursements are even lower — just 56% of the private rate. In 2009, underpayments to hospitals amounted to $36.5 billion.
bighealthreport.com...
Quote: What we have seen so far from this disastrous monstrosity of legislation is that we and our physicians will be so tied up in bureaucracy; from mountains of paperwork, to bureaucrats getting in between our doctors and ourselves, to employers providing insurance that contains “minimum essential coverage” which has yet to be fully disclosed for their employees, to the policing of our coverage by the IRS to make sure we have purchased what the government deems to be acceptable health insurance coverage. Physicians will also be subject to fines for not providing care to their patients as dictated by a panel of bureaucrats. The individual mandate in this bill is unprecedented in our history. The Cato Institute’s Michael D. Tanner has published a comprehensive analysis of this heath care reform bill in his much more readable 61 page Bad Medicine: A Guide to the Real Costs and Consequences of the New Health Care Law. He states that “what we are finding increasingly looks like it will leave Americans less healthy, less prosperous and less free.”
Originally posted by seabag
Originally posted by NoHierarchy
Originally posted by dbarnhart
Having gotten up close and personal with the healthcare systems in a couple European counties, I will take our system hands-down. Some people point to the British system. Well, when I lived there children wear going deaf because the waiting period for minor ear operations was so long.
There are more MRI machines in just Phoenix AZ than all of Canada. I've watched people wait months for their turn to have a hernia operation in Canada.
Sure, you can have free health care but it will be crappy and you'll wait a long time for it.
Is deafness amongst children due to long waits for ear-infections an epidemic or just anecdotal and rare?
Does the number of MRI machines in Canada in comparison to Phoenix AZ matter? Is there a dangerous shortage of MRI machines in Canada that actually affects the population to a large extent? Have you considered that Phoenix might have too MANY MRI machines?
Free health care, no matter the wait times, is BETTER THAN NO HEALTH CARE. There are tens of millions of Americans (including children) who don't have any health care provided, that's plain unacceptable. As for the fear-mongering over universal health-care in other countries... many people actually enjoy their health care in those countries and they have higher quality of life, health, and life-expectancy than we do in the states... so what gives, man?
No American is turned away from heath care services. That's part of the reason that health care cost are so high...because doctors don't get paid for their services in many cases!
I agree that the prices are high, which is why TORT reform, big pharma, government regulations on insurance and other things need to be addressed (all things that liberals won't touch because they WANT socialized medicine).
Addressing those problems would drive prices down and allow more people to buy insurance on the free market. The situation in the marketplace dictates the price. When you have the government throwing up obstacles and driving up the price of doing business those costs are passed on to the customer.
Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
Oh, what a utopian system it is!
Hospital overcrowding affecting Ont. patient care
Long-term care shortages strain Windsor hospitals
N.B. nursing care bed shortage acute
Maybe Canada ought to do what the UK has resorted to, having doctors fill out Do Not Resuscitate forms for elderly patients without the patient's or family's knowledge or consent (Source.)
Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
Originally posted by ignant
Co-pay means paid, private premium insurance is paying the rest of it, probably hundreds,
no??
I don't know. I pay $48 / month from my monthly military retirement check for my TriWest health insurance. I pay $12 co-pay if I see a doctor.
And as an aside, do all the healthcare workers, administrators, managers, etc. in socialized healthcare systems work for free; and what about the facilities, supplies, and all other ancillary expenses? Are they all free? No, because there is no such thing as free. It all comes out of a pool of money graciously 'donated' by all the taxpayers in the country. So how much are the taxpayers in your country's socialized healthcare system paying for a full panel blood test? Probably hundreds, or maybe even thousands seeing as money to the government is readily replaced by more taxes.edit on 10/23/11 by Ferris.Bueller.II because: Added.
Originally posted by woodwardjnr
So here in the UK where we have terrible health care,it has treated me for Brain tumours for the last 10 years, 2 courses of chemotherapy, Radiotherapy, 2 brain surgeries, more than 10 MRI scans, support groups, counselling, medications, see a GP within two days, MRI scans whenever I want. Yeah it's a really terrible system. How much has all this cost me? The only costs I have had is paying to get too and from treatments and for the parking at the hospital. Terrible I tell you.
Now the US also spends twice as much of their GDP on health care than the UK. Spending all that money and still not providing a decent service for the whole country, where are you guys going wrong?edit on 24-10-2011 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by dbarnhart
Having gotten up close and personal with the healthcare systems in a couple European counties, I will take our system hands-down. Some people point to the British system. Well, when I lived there children wear going deaf because the waiting period for minor ear operations was so long.
There are more MRI machines in just Phoenix AZ than all of Canada. I've watched people wait months for their turn to have a hernia operation in Canada.
Sure, you can have free health care but it will be crappy and you'll wait a long time for it.
Originally posted by 547000
reply to post by Swills
Wow. That's a very compelling argument. Hadn't thought of it that way.
But then someone might argue that about the internet pricing that way. Or maybe cellular plans. The problem is, socialism creeps and is merely a transitional phase to communism. The children of my generation are very entitled, so I don't think it's absurd to argue it's a slippery slope.
On the other hand, I really like your argument.