Paul wants to phase out federal student loans.

Originally posted by calstorm

Originally posted by projectvxn
Why not go to trade schools?

We need mechanics, machinists, gunsmiths(very lucrative these days), electronics repair, and a whole host of other trades that are absolutely essential and we are lacking in.

The problem I have found with going to trade school is after get your certificate, every one wants you to have two years experience before they will hire you. Please tell me how to get this experience if I can't get a job?

It's called an apprenticeship.

reply to post by ThaLoccster


Damn, I hope my kid can get that bright futures scholarship then. :/
At least I got my schooling done now!!! Mine is already federal, I will be grandfathered out right?

reply to post by projectvxn


Which went out of style in the 80s, right along with thinking about other people. Apprenticeships are difficult to find right now, at best. Which comes back to everyone's underlying point. We haz this many people, 1975937592752975, and only this many jobs 5257297528589.

Dont really know who all has replied in this. Its very hard to read that many things..
Ron Paul wants to lower the cost of education but as for the loans since the STATE will be taking the role of the Government, the State will give the low interest loans to people in that STATE. the loans will not be eliminated. thats the only way i go to school is through loans. but i think he wants to provide students with loans at the state level and at the SCHOOL level instead of at the Country level.

I think most of the people on this thread don't understand how the college education system has been exploited by these so called institutions of higher education.

The Govt. is guaranteeing them tax payer money (more importantly MY money) to provide inadequate educations to people who want to learn useless crap (for the most part).

When the Govt. loan program started is when tuition costs skyrocketed.(When the Govt. handouts stop the costs will go down). Then these colleges started using My money to fund their sports programs, which is their real cash cow.

This is probably one of the most glaring symptoms of how screwed up this country is that people get paid absurd amounts of money to play a game. But that is off topic.

Back in the 50's through the 80's people could pay for their college education with a part time job. Without Gov't interference it will go back to this state. God forbid people are held accountable for their own education and well being without needing me to pay for it.

He's effectively ensuring young people can get the debt monkey off their back.
I went from being a homeless youth to working my way through college no loan required.
Opting out of social security also good I remember having to pay that till I moved countries and each time I did I would think about if I would ever see that investment again.
If I were to hire someone today it would not be based on a degree but what they could actually do. Experience and attitude with just the right amount of creativity and curiosity.

Originally posted by projectvxn

Originally posted by calstorm

Originally posted by projectvxn
Why not go to trade schools?

We need mechanics, machinists, gunsmiths(very lucrative these days), electronics repair, and a whole host of other trades that are absolutely essential and we are lacking in.

The problem I have found with going to trade school is after get your certificate, every one wants you to have two years experience before they will hire you. Please tell me how to get this experience if I can't get a job?

It's called an apprenticeship.

Your talking about being a union worker? That's a whole other discussion.

At the same time saying we need these certain trades when in fact they are about the only trades left for a working American man, outside of working at wal mart or an equivalent. Mechanics, machinists, carpenters are actually everywhere, just no one is giving them a job unless you play by union rules (which are ethically #ty as hell, and another money pot), some don't like watching a crane operator sit around and read a magazine until its time for him to move something, all the while on the clock paying the "union" hundreds of dollars an hour.

Gunsmiths (hell my family on both sides are gunsmiths), and whatever set of careers you mean by "electronics repair", we have that covered by far as well (remember that dot com bubble, how many people you think that left out of work? How many people you think it takes to support this massive entertainment industry? We have more than enough). There is a set of regulations and orders in place that make it difficult for anyone who has ever found bad relations with the wrong set of idiots unable to do anything slightly resembling the works of a free market.

Sheep often fail to see the wolf in sheep's clothing, until it bites them in the ass.

Originally posted by Fractured.Facade
Sheep often fail to see the wolf in sheep's clothing, until it bites them in the ass.

Okay then FF, highlight us with all your infinite one lining wisdom again. Explain.

Oh, and you can hold the emoticons.

And coming from someone with a Technical Certificate in Automotive Technology. I will say this. i had a job coming out of school with 0 experience in an ACTUAL shop. i did however have detail experience at a dealership and that definately helped. Reading a craisglist ad or job offer ad and seeing that it says 2 years experience, then going to the next one is not the attitude. They put that there because they dont want any joe blow contacteing them. Almost any dealership has a training program as do most companies. They want someone who they know isnt gonna change their mind, 2 years in the field sort of indicates they wont. But if you get an interview with them or talk to them on the phone. YOU are who gets the job. Not your resume or your past. YOU will inspire the interviewer into believing that you wont sleep till your job is perfect. and thats all it is...
i graduated from my 2 year college at 19 and in my first year out of school i was making 40-45 thousand. (i didnt file the cash jobs i did). I wanted a better job and future in 30-40 years instead of maxing out at 100k after 25 years and living paycheck to paycheck untill then with no retirement, so i have gone back to school now for Mech Eng. and i have no problem believing that when i get out i can pay my $600 a month loans for school. Or i wouldnt have taken them in the first place. But i think that the cost of school should be much less it should be at MOST after 4 year cost you 20,000 total. I think that college should be considered on the level of a decent car investment.

Not surprising at all.
People who WANT to succeed in life have to wonder is those possible legal drugs that so many think Ron Paul is for, worth not being able to go to/pay for college?

Yep Thanks Mr. Paul you are done! Sit down next to home school everyone Michele Bachmann.

reply to post by netwarrior


Its a messed up system..

In the two years I was in my community college, I think the tuition went from 70 dollars per credit (this is low in relative to many schools) to about 100 dollars per credit..


Quite a difference when you're a full time student. Im also taking a Freshman Biology class myself, as a Junior even though I've had much higher level biology and chemistry than what they cover.

I had one instructor who told us about his time in college, when there was just a 100 dollar flat fee for a full time student (up to 18 credits I think) and you paid for books. This was probably late 80s. But it's still a huge difference in the thousands paid per term now.

Overall I think the education system in this country is a sham. I've written threads in the past over the racquet of textbooks as well.

Wow....first couple of responses were "me me me" This does not mean your state cant do something or private lenders do something.....IT MEANS I DONT HAVE TO!!!

Pay attention, it's a FAILED program...When and IF you ever start contributing to the tax pool and 12000 a year of your money is TAKEN from you...against your will, maybe you will wake up.

i understand how many of you feel, having as Ron Paul stated, only knowing big government and accepting this as the norm. It has not always been this way.

In the forties my mother pretty much put my father all the way through medical school., when most women did not work. He had a job as a bellhop. But, he made it, because they found a way. My father's father had offered to pay for my dad's education--if he became an engineer. But, he did not want to be an engineer. My mother's father would have paid for it, had they asked. But, instead they went it alone. This is true freedom, being able to pursue your career without government, banks, or wealthy parents. Think about it. When the government became involved, tuition skyrocketed.

If people can not pay huge tuitions, by borrowing money, then the schools will have meet these conditions. When the dust settles, in Ron Paul's America you may just have a chance to become educated without being indebted up to your ears for many years. Ron Paul even stated in the interview that he had worked himself through college; and, I feel that he sincerely believes that it can be this way for everyone.


Whenever, the government makes funds easily available, it creates a boom in whatever industry the funds were designed for. For, example the housing boom. When everyone has ez access to money to purchase, then the prices go up. Eventually, we have to pay for the artificial stimulus in a bust, because the boom only lasts as long as people have the money to feed it. Had there never been ez money, prices would have remained more stable, which is Ron Paul's point.



I was surprised to see that many deans in America's universities make well over $800,000 per year, not to mention what the school presidents and so on make.

"A scholar who cherishes the love of comfort is not fit to be deemed a scholar."
Lao Tzu

reply to post by ThaLoccster


This may or may not be true. When I look at health care, it seems to me that the health care insurance has increased the cost of health care. How? Because the health care providers know they can get more out of an insurance company than they can from people paying out of pocket. I noticed how the health care bills are reduced once I say I don't have insurance and am paying out of pocket.

I'm thinking that the school loans are doing the same thing to college tuition. The colleges know they can get more money when the students are getting federal loans. They know they can squeeze more money out of the federal government than out of the pockets of the students themselves.

The price of college is outrageous now a days. For anyone in college who has a student loan, I feel for you. From personal experience, if you don't pay that loan back on time, you will end up paying at least triple if not more in accumulated interest. I sincerely hope all of you find jobs where you will be able not only be able to support yourselves, but also pay those loans. Those deferments, forbearances, and all the "help" you can get if you can't pay it back adds up the interest and capitalizes it even though you don't have to pay anything on it. That capitalized money now collects interest also. That is how $13,000 loan became $43,000 years later. It is close to a mortgage payment.

That is doing everything not to have it go into defaults. Going into a default to me is worse than going bankrupt. If you do go bankrupt, remember your student loan does not go away with bankruptcy.

Student loans is one of the things that have caused so many people to get into so much debt that they will not be able to pay it back. That $13,000 loan was years ago. Now college is $30,000, $50,000, and higher depending on which school you want to get in with no guarantee of getting a job let alone if there are any that will be available when you graduate. Not good. It is good that the one poster already has put a foot in his field. That is promising, but is no guarantee that job or company will be around when he graduates, unless he is graduating soon. Hopefully that job will be there for a long time.

The only reason I agree with Ron Paul with the student loans is that I do colleges and universities being forced to reduce their enrollment and course costs when they realize the students being able to enroll will be less than half from the previous years. Either they will have to close, or adapt. I honestly believe they will adapt.

The costs of colleges needs to come down one way or another. Soon even doctors and dentists won't be able to pay off their loans. Besides health care insurance mentioned above, I'm sure the student loans doctors and dentists have increased their costs due to the overbearing student loans. Cut the cost of the student loans for them, and cut the cost for healthcare, unless those in the medical field are really that greedy.

reply to post by ThetaNuRucka


Yep your gonna be fine...Mech Eng easily earn six figures....Enjoy your future and dont for get about the wrench benders when your engineering something.....I was going back to school for the same then when talking to retired engineer he said well its a long shot...i would have been forty when I finished the program and he told me typically your like an "apprentice" engineer for ten years before you are up to speed so to speak...that you put me at 50 and well.....i decided ill just keep bending wrenches......

I have a lot of student loan debt that is going to be very difficult to pay back. I understand why cutting the funding is a good idea, this should drive down tuition costs. Colleges can cut costs by eliminating those useless credits that are required to get a degree. If a person wants a degree in computer science why on earth do they need to take language arts credits? Just let students take only the necessary classes pertaining to their specific degree and we could eliminate time and money off of a typical bachelors degree program. For any of you who have completed a bachelors degree just imagine the time and financial savings you could have had if those bogus required courses were eliminated.

I'm an under 30 successful computer programmer who never went to college.

I always thought it was ludicrous to spend that much money, in many cases three or more years of your starting salary, to learn something you can learn yourself.

Get off your lazy butts and read books, websites, use videos to learn what you want. Sitting in a classroom for four years and spending money doesn't give you hands on experience.

As a now senior level programmer, I will not hire a college graduate unless he/she has real world experience to back it up. This is the problem, people come out of college expecting big money jobs, and the work force is flooded with people who think they are qualified.

College is great if you want to be a doctor, engineer, or another specialized trade; but not worth anything for 85% of the people enrolled.

I also have to ask, since it is what my daughter wants to do, Why the HELL should she need a DAMN DEGREE in Culinary to get a job as a fricking COOK??? I think this is outrageous, but I also loved culinary and wanted it to be my main field BUT NO ONE would HIRE ME!!!! WHY????? I have been cooking since I was 12 I have made things that Bobby freaking Flay would never come close to nailing and I have worked in various other degrees of restaurant/ food industry, but not a soul would hire me without a degree!!!! WHAT? Seriously, I am thinking of just taking a damn loan to get her her business started right out of High School (she wants to run her own bakery) and just give her the keys and say "Screw your damn schooling and experience!" Think that she could get a loan without her degree? Maybe I should just have her bake for the bank and bring it with her for consideration? She's had culinary two years (it will be three years next year) in high school. Also we have no collateral. Nor good credit to cosign. Maybe I'll just go to my dad to borrow it and her "Profit" can go to paying him back? It's so ridiculous why would she need a degree to own her own bakery or get the loan for it?? It's absolutely retarded. Talk about stifling entrepreneurship!

Originally posted by xstealth
I'm an under 30 successful computer programmer who never went to college.

I always thought it was ludicrous to spend that much money, in many cases three or more years of your starting salary, to learn something you can learn yourself.

Get off your lazy butts and read books, websites, use videos to learn what you want. Sitting in a classroom for four years and spending money doesn't give you hands on experience.

As a now senior level programmer, I will not hire a college graduate unless he/she has real world experience to back it up. This is the problem, people come out of college expecting big money jobs, and the work force is flooded with people who think they are qualified.

College is great if you want to be a doctor, engineer, or another specialized trade; but not worth anything for 85% of the people enrolled.

I agree completely. I think a big part of the problem is employers. They won't even interview someone unless they have a degree and like you said many skills for most occupations can be self taught but the employer doesn't see it that way.