Paul wants to phase out federal student loans.

reply to post by projectvxn


Oh I thought you were saying poor people should not get degrees. For example if someone is currently making $8,000 a year then if they went to college that would be a responsible investment. We really do need more DRs and I for one want to see everyone have equal oppurtunites who have the intelligence and focus it takes to become a DR.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by HauntWok

 

Ok.

Meet me in the middle:

Government only funds math, science, and engineering degrees.

Everyone else has to do their thing on their own.

Here's one better pass off the education costs to the employer that way they can get the best return for their investment that makes sense to me.

reply to post by neo96


They used to do that a long time ago. Employers found out that it wasn't very profitable and stopped doing it in the united states.

reply to post by neo96


How would that work if a person works at a fast food joint but wants to become a DR? Are you saying McDonalds should pay for someone to become a Dr when they don't have DRs there?

reply to post by dreamseeker


Lol works the same way for every "fast food" business on the job training that doesn't require 100k to flip burgers.

reply to post by neo96

Here's one better pass off the education costs to the employer that way they can get the best return for their investment that makes sense to me.

That sounds like just the kind of "pass the buck" thinking that Ron Paul endorses.

Except that there are too few companies anymore that are willing to pay for an education for their employees. There should be more, but it's not happening, and how is a president gonna get employers to pay for education? More tax breaks that aren't paid for?

But I'm sure that Pass the Buck Paul would love your idea.

reply to post by dreamseeker


I do too. But I also expect personal responsibility.

Someone who is making 8,000 a year. and then borrows & spends 100,000 on a fine arts degree knowing the field isn't exactly lucrative isn't being responsible.

reply to post by projectvxn


Yeah but no one can tell someone else how to manage their own education/money. I make about $12,000 a year and got a BS in communications. I furthered my education with a Masters in Psychology and a Second Master's in education. I plan on teaching online courses in Psychology.

reply to post by dreamseeker


That's great. I'm very happy for you. So long as you're paying off you debts, and living the life you wish to lead I have nothing bad to say.

But backstopping stupidity is not something government should be doing. You can't tell me that loaning 100,000 dollars to someone pursuing a degree in art appreciation is a sound investment.

reply to post by projectvxn


I love art.I prefer art to math anyday. It may not be a sound investment but not too many chose that degree. I would rather someone get a degree in something he or she enjoys then in something they hate. My first degree was in communications because I love to write in general. A person may do what I did get their first degree in their first career choice and a second degree in their secondary career choice.
It is not up to me or anyone else to tell someone else what not to get a loan for.
Art has it's place in society. At the same time you can't really teach talent.

reply to post by dreamseeker


I'd rather the government invest in something that will bring a return in terms of economic output and innovation than to satisfy someone's appetite for art.

Seriously. It should not be an argument at all.

Government should be funding things we NEED, not things we WANT.

reply to post by ThaLoccster



I think Ron Paul might have seen this film. It was new to me and quite a shock to discover some of the material in it. If you watch the first 5 minutes you get the idea. I can't imagine starting life with the amount of debt an education ends up costing and you are often not even guaranteed a job. Makes you wonder what is the point? All things considered I think education should be somewhat subsidized since an educated populace is certainly more vital than things like genetically modified corn. When a governing body makes it (or allows it to be) difficult and costly to receive a quality education I would have to assume that body is interested in perpetuating ignorance and then that would bring up a whole other set of questions, like why such an underhanded and devious self defeating agenda unless it has something to do with CONTROL and depopulation.




You might be better off with something like this in the future.

reply to post by BadNinja68


Um, I'm pretty sure that highly trained college professionals are the ones who are creating jobs, and doing a "good job" because we are highly trained. Stop helping people get a better education and the world is over.

Anyone ever see "Idiocracy"?

Why not go to trade schools?

We need mechanics, machinists, gunsmiths(very lucrative these days), electronics repair, and a whole host of other trades that are absolutely essential and we are lacking in.

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Ron Paul is wolf in sheeps clothing. He is part of the elite's agenda to take away everything from you and me. He wants to strip us of everything yet he says he is doing it for our own good.

Ron is what you call a Libertarian .. they want to get back to the roots of how we were founded, we weren't founded as a society where the Government spoon feeds us and it never should have been this way to begin with.. We can't afford to be that.. We don't need this government entity coddling us, it doesn't help anyone.. if anything, it removes your freedoms by forcing you to fit into a box with everyone else... As it stands right now I have large amounts of money taken from me without option to pay for things I'll probably never get .. I'd rather at least have the option of handling my own money my own way..

He's not "taking" from you .. he's looking to restore the way government was intended to operate all along and offer people more freedoms to think and act for themselves.. do you really need big brother to take care of you? have we gotten that helpless? that would be a shame.

Originally posted by miniatus

Originally posted by dreamseeker
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Ron Paul is wolf in sheeps clothing. He is part of the elite's agenda to take away everything from you and me. He wants to strip us of everything yet he says he is doing it for our own good.

Ron is what you call a Libertarian .. they want to get back to the roots of how we were founded, we weren't founded as a society where the Government spoon feeds us and it never should have been this way to begin with.. We can't afford to be that.. We don't need this government entity coddling us, it doesn't help anyone.. if anything, it removes your freedoms by forcing you to fit into a box with everyone else... As it stands right now I have large amounts of money taken from me without option to pay for things I'll probably never get .. I'd rather at least have the option of handling my own money my own way..

He's not "taking" from you .. he's looking to restore the way government was intended to operate all along and offer people more freedoms to think and act for themselves.. do you really need big brother to take care of you? have we gotten that helpless? that would be a shame.

Education should be cheap and readily available.

When a governing body makes it (or allows it to be) difficult and costly to receive a quality education I would have to assume that body is interested in perpetuating ignorance and then that would bring up a whole other set of questions, like why such an underhanded and devious self defeating agenda unless it has something to do with CONTROL and depopulation.

reply to post by projectvxn


They do go to trade schools. Very few people purposefully try to get a degree in a field where they can't get a job and make money. At times, the modern world is moving so fast that these people find 4 years later a field that was once bursting, is no longer doing well, and no longer needs workers. That's their complaint.

I think that a community that does not educate its young as a cost of the community are doomed to failure as a community. The only stipulation to that I should point out is that I do not extend the cost for this community education of its young to the federal government. That is not the job of the nation state level government in the modern web enabled era.

Perhaps for a short interval between the industrial age and the atomic age there was such a leap in information without the decentralized mass communication systems we have today so some collectivism at the national level for education was realistically cost effective. Perhaps even needed at the time.

It is not the same today. All of elementary education can cheaply be done at the home school level or small community education center supported by the local community through property taxes or perhaps a school tax as well if the community chooses to go that way for revenue.

My take on this is that crowd sourcing for revenue for projects of merit is working as can be seen with so many online media education systems and crowd funding projects coming online. It can replace taxes with volunteerism and crowd sourcing. Make your case for your project put out a presentation and the world will contribute as can be seen from a myriad of online crowd sourcing projects. Kiva, Kickstarter, and many others for example.

We need to reshape our education system and become self reliant like the hundreds of thousands of happy and well educated home schoolers online today have shown us. This should naturally be extended to non profit online education for higher learning. Forget about government central planning for education. It has failed miserably in this country. Move on and evolve our education system to be better than anything we previously imagined possible. And quit bitching about how badly the government is doing things when the answer lies with the parents and the community to and our modern technology to educate their young.

We need to become more self reliant in every area that touches our lives as this gives the central government and the big corporations less control of our lives.

There is a difference between loans and financial aid. He is no talking about cutting financial aid he is talking about the loan programs. People are better off getting loans from credit unions than these school loans anyways. The financial aid AKA free money will still be their. What Ron Paul is talking about are the loans that students have to pay off leaving them thousands of dollars in debt. Have you ever tried working with these people? I have. Although they aren't supposed to they have attempted to collect from me while I was still attending school. They thwart my attempts to apply for deferments at every turn (even though I am still in school they say this is the only way to get it off my credit) They tell me they are sending me a form and that I have to have it in by a certain day, I wait and wait for the form, it never shows, I call they say they are sending it, finally it comes the day before it's due. I don't get my deferment due to another one of their mistakes. These loans are nightmares and I 100% support doing away with them I wish I would have never gotten one. I only got one because I could, even though financial aid was enough.

Originally posted by projectvxn
Why not go to trade schools?

We need mechanics, machinists, gunsmiths(very lucrative these days), electronics repair, and a whole host of other trades that are absolutely essential and we are lacking in.

The problem I have found with going to trade school is after get your certificate, every one wants you to have two years experience before they will hire you. Please tell me how to get this experience if I can't get a job?