You deserve what?

reply to post by Cuervo


You validate my point exactly.

We don't need them.

Yes, we can provide for ourselves. Someone above posted we are taking care of our own at 20% unemployment. Really? Then why are there homeless? Why is our national debt so high? Because we don't have enough coming in to sustain what is going out, that's why. Yes, in a truly Utopian type country this would be all well and good. But we will never have that. So in the meantime, if we want to "even" the playing field we must do so with our wallets. Next time you buy a new shirt or a bunch of apples, look at where it came from, and more importantly, ask yourself if you really need a brand new shirt, or would one from goodwill work? They already got the profit from the goodwill one.

reply to post by haarvik


if people could freely grow and take food from the enviorment as well as build their own shelter and also take the resources from the natural enviorment to build it without laws making it difficult to near impossible along with the 'ownership' of land then i might agree with making people fend for themselves, if and only if people where truely free to settle where they want and grow and hunt for food where they want.

when laws are made to prevent you from taking food from the enviorment for free and you are required to buy what was once free then there should be a responsibility to provide the basic's at the minimum, as the ability to provide for yourself has been made more difficult due to ownership and laws and legislation.

in the time of the maya maybe, but today the world is different and peoples ability to survive of the land has been made more difficult.

take into account pollution of the enviorment to.

we have people who do what you are proposing all the time, they are called travellers, they often find themselve evicted for being on land 'illegally'.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by Cuervo

 

You validate my point exactly.

We don't need them.

Yes, we can provide for ourselves. Someone above posted we are taking care of our own at 20% unemployment. Really? Then why are there homeless? Why is our national debt so high? Because we don't have enough coming in to sustain what is going out, that's why. Yes, in a truly Utopian type country this would be all well and good. But we will never have that. So in the meantime, if we want to "even" the playing field we must do so with our wallets. Next time you buy a new shirt or a bunch of apples, look at where it came from, and more importantly, ask yourself if you really need a brand new shirt, or would one from goodwill work? They already got the profit from the goodwill one.

So you are saying that if we could afford it, you would support those things as basic rights? Well if we get rid of the true welfare cases (I'm not talking about that single mom in the grocery store), we could more than afford to take care of our people. The biggest reason we are poor isn't because we have lazy and generous people, ironically it's because we have just the opposite: greedy and ambitious people.

We made our health and basic survival into a commodity. That is evil on every single page of the Evil Book. To anybody who thinks that's okay, I say they are the problem.

reply to post by Cuervo


If you do your history on Germany prior to Hitler losing his mind, they had what I would consider a nearly perfect system. Everyone worked a job. Banks were not owned by international bankers, they were state owned. Everyone was guaranteed healthcare, housing and education. From the time he took power control, until he started invading other countries, Germany was a powerhouse. And it didn't take very long. They were the first to emerge from the Great depression. Germany took care of their own FIRST.

So yes, it is possible, but it has to be done the right way or it gets abused and you are right back to square one.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by Cuervo

 

If you do your history on Germany prior to Hitler losing his mind, they had what I would consider a nearly perfect system. Everyone worked a job. Banks were not owned by international bankers, they were state owned. Everyone was guaranteed healthcare, housing and education. From the time he took power control, until he started invading other countries, Germany was a powerhouse. And it didn't take very long. They were the first to emerge from the Great depression. Germany took care of their own FIRST.

So yes, it is possible, but it has to be done the right way or it gets abused and you are right back to square one.

If you are ever lacking for a modern example of that sort of functioning free market socialism, just look at the Scandinavian nations. They fly in the face of what American corporate capitalists want you to believe.

To a degree, you are right. However, if you want to go off the grid or make your own way...you need a permit for that.

Say I want to take advantage of my own large yard by turning it into a large vegetable garden/small vegetable farm. I will have enough vegetables for my family and I can sell the surplus for an income or supplemental income. I need a permit for that.

If I own an acre of land and want to build a log cabin, I need a permit for that.

If I want to protest these idiocies, I need a permit for that too.

The walls are closing in.

reply to post by Kali74


Yep, you're right. I'm sick of permit this, permit that. It's my land and until they pay for it and the taxes for it I will do as I please. Done that before and won.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by Kali74

 

Yep, you're right. I'm sick of permit this, permit that. It's my land and until they pay for it and the taxes for it I will do as I please. Done that before and won.

That's sort of why I feel the way I do. A homeless family is not allowed to go to the woods, build a house, and start working the land. It's insane that we tell somebody that, not only will we not take care of them, but we will also put in place obstacles to make it difficult for them to take care of themselves. Some families would truly be better off in the jungles of South America.

We are better than that.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by Kali74

 

Yep, you're right. I'm sick of permit this, permit that. It's my land and until they pay for it and the taxes for it I will do as I please. Done that before and won.

My question to you then is, if they are going to force us down narrower and narrower roads, force us into not being able to be self sustaining by making it damn near impossible to farm or use alternative energy...force us into the system, why is it so wrong to say if you won't let me build/grow on my own then give me?

reply to post by Kali74


Because we need to grow some nads and tell THEM what we are going to do. These things get enacted because no one objects. They use the ruse of "protecting" citizens. Think about it. If a city say the size of Baltimore were to have 50% of it's citizens just go and put up solar power without permits, how long will it take them to ticket and fine each one of them? Not only that, but when these people vote, those in charge will lose their positions and they elect those who will stop the madness. If 50% of the population joined together and sued the city for infringing on their rights as homeowners, this nonsense would stop.

reply to post by haarvik


Very good point.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by Kali74

 

Because we need to grow some nads and tell THEM what we are going to do. These things get enacted because no one objects. They use the ruse of "protecting" citizens. Think about it. If a city say the size of Baltimore were to have 50% of it's citizens just go and put up solar power without permits, how long will it take them to ticket and fine each one of them? Not only that, but when these people vote, those in charge will lose their positions and they elect those who will stop the madness. If 50% of the population joined together and sued the city for infringing on their rights as homeowners, this nonsense would stop.

Yeah I think you're right. If 50% of the people got together and did anything the nonsense would stop. I think so many people feel like they don't have the power to stand up to corps and govt and thats just really sad. Once they've convinced you that you're powerless theres nothing stopping their control of you. The trouble comes with "voting". We trade a symbol of our power (the vote) for our real power (our voice). Trading us a symbol for the real thing happens over and over and over in society. We trade TV for experience, fast food for real food, dry crackers for sacraments...etc

I'd rather live in a world where everyone gets a free pony rather then one were people are denied basic food, shelter and clothing.
Why dont you take your anti-entitlement rant to a 3rd world country, Tell them to get off their asses and WORK, stop expecting handouts, im sure that'll encourage them to turn their luck around. Oh wait, luck works of its own accord doesnt it? So i guess by default, those 3rd world people are living by choice without basics while the west produces 4 times more the amount of food the world needs annually. Strange that is.

I also believe that people (all citizens of the world) are entitled to live in peace. Or is no one entitled to that either?

I love how its mostly the rich and well-off that tell the rest of us what were entitled to, its hypocritical.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


I love how people like you think everyone is entitled to something you did not make nor earn. And by the way, why don't you read the entire thread before responding? Clearly you missed the part about my past. You'll have to read to know about it. Maybe you should focus your energy where it is needed, and remove the obvious crooks in DC instead of worrying about someone having more than you. If people would do this, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Originally posted by Kali74
To a degree, you are right. However, if you want to go off the grid or make your own way...you need a permit for that.

Say I want to take advantage of my own large yard by turning it into a large vegetable garden/small vegetable farm. I will have enough vegetables for my family and I can sell the surplus for an income or supplemental income. I need a permit for that.

If I own an acre of land and want to build a log cabin, I need a permit for that.

If I want to protest these idiocies, I need a permit for that too.

The walls are closing in.

Plus, you have to pay for the privilege of an internet connection to voice your concerns online XD

Originally posted by doctornamtab

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by Kali74

 

Because we need to grow some nads and tell THEM what we are going to do. These things get enacted because no one objects. They use the ruse of "protecting" citizens. Think about it. If a city say the size of Baltimore were to have 50% of it's citizens just go and put up solar power without permits, how long will it take them to ticket and fine each one of them? Not only that, but when these people vote, those in charge will lose their positions and they elect those who will stop the madness. If 50% of the population joined together and sued the city for infringing on their rights as homeowners, this nonsense would stop.

Yeah I think you're right. If 50% of the people got together and did anything the nonsense would stop. I think so many people feel like they don't have the power to stand up to corps and govt and thats just really sad. Once they've convinced you that you're powerless theres nothing stopping their control of you. The trouble comes with "voting". We trade a symbol of our power (the vote) for our real power (our voice). Trading us a symbol for the real thing happens over and over and over in society. We trade TV for experience, fast food for real food, dry crackers for sacraments...etc

Only problem is that when people do start to get together and try to do something to stop the nonsense they are called hippies and entitlists or communists and socialists.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

I love how people like you think everyone is entitled to something you did not make nor earn. And by the way, why don't you read the entire thread before responding? Clearly you missed the part about my past. You'll have to read to know about it. Maybe you should focus your energy where it is needed, and remove the obvious crooks in DC instead of worrying about someone having more than you. If people would do this, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

I did read you entire post funny enough, you've been homeless twice? And yet you still want to prop up a system where people are penalized for being poor, while others have enough money to own 7 mansions a yacht a private jet and about 100 cars? There's nothing wrong with that picture to you?

I don't envy the rich & wealthy, i just feel like that wealth could be spread out abit more and used to give people the opportunity to work and earn the basic things in life.
This is 2011 and yet, slavery is STILL in full swing, Poverty of all types is STILL killing billions of people and wars are still raging for pathetic and misguided reasons.
All to do with how we share the bounty.

But you are right, people should come out and make government change but people should also stop using large corporations if at all possible.

Star and Flag. Yea "deserve" is a word that conveys debt owed. A person only deserves something if he and the hoped for debtor agree that something is deserved. Somehow it seems more and more people think they "deserve" something whether it be good or bad. Just don't talk to me about how you deserve something and I'm ok

If we don't deserve Water, Food, and shelter for our basic survival...

Then the Government doesn't deserve our taxes for its survival.

The government is merely a group of controlling animals, they should fend for themselves.

Originally posted by Deafseeingeyedog

If we don't deserve Water, Food, and shelter for our basic survival...

Then the Government doesn't deserve our taxes for its survival.

Just start cutting back on everything, cancel all subscriptions and anything that is being automatically withdrawn from your bank account or credit card.

Consider going without health insurance all together

Raise your insurance deductibles, cut back on your utilities.

Stop contributing to your retirement account.

Start using coupons at the grocery store.

Tell telemarketers to drop dead.

Don't buy anything new. Garage sales, Craigslist and flea markets from now on. Get your cloths from Goodwill

Work less hours.

Find smaller shops and companies to do business with. Ask around find out who does good work for a fair price, stop reading advertisments.

Cancel your newspaper subscription.

If you have an unmanagable car loan or house payment consider giving that item back to the bank.

Reduce your income so you don't have to pay as much tax or quit working all together.

There are some benifits that can be gained if you are successful in reducing your income to a very low level.

Stop doing anything productive at all.

Don't borrow money for anything

THEY are so productive THEY don't need us.

I saved the best for last - Act like everything is completely normal and nothing weird is happening