Red October 2011; OWS, A Communist Initiative- History Repeats It's Self And They're Steps Ahead O

reply to post by FugitiveSoul


Read the Constitution.

If you believe that it needs changing the Constitution itself provides for such changes.

No need to take up arms.

reply to post by gwydionblack


You know what? Let me change gears here.

Let's say for a moment that a Bolshevik style revolution broke out tomorrow and they wanted a Communist government.

Would you be Ok with the US Army putting it down in order to maintain the integrity of the Union and Constitution?

Edit:

I would be with you if tomorrow the government said "If OWS doesn't disperse we will kill everyone there" and so would many others. I would be with you if government said "We're sending in troops to confiscate all guns and one resisting will be shot".

But that isn't happening.

We need financial reforms and we need to get money out of government. Not bloodshed.

reply to post by projectvxn


You don't seem to understand that the targets of the revolution are NOT the American citizens. That is, unless they decide to stand up and fight us, the loyalists of modern times, if you will.

The only bloodshed that is going to come are people like you who follow the governments unconstitutional orders when they are given. Otherwise, all America has to do is arm themselves to the teeth, march to Washington, and declare the return of the Constitutional Republic and a return to Constitutional Law.

It is the DUTY of the politicians to leave office, and if they refuse to listen to the people when told to leave, then they are committing treason. And I am sorry, but if they are that stupid then yes, there will be bloodshed. They will sick their dogs on the people, the military brutes who are in it only for their paychecks, and meanwhile your comrades, the ones who support the American people, will be on OUR side, fighting YOU.

You can delude yourself all that you want that you are defending the Constitution, but you are wrong. You are wrong about peacefully changing this country too. Been there, done that. It is exhausted. It is old. How many lines in the sand must be drawn that the government steps over before the people finally say enough is enough, times to take matters into our own hands.

If you had it your way, we would be holding signs and chanting in Time Square all the way up until we are led into an incinerator, because according to you - there is no time to fight. The only thing we are apparently good for is to lie down, pretend we are making a difference, follow by the rules that keep us in line, and accept our fates.

Go for it. That is all you. But me and the people who will follow in the revolution - we have our own terms. Give us liberty, or give us death.

reply to post by projectvxn


Last I looked Communism wasn't listed under the Constitution. Nor can Socialism exist under a Republic with a Free Market.

To compare the two is like comparing apples and peas. Sure they are both round, but your are talking about two completely different subjects.


Edit to add:

And your financial reform isn't going to happen by protests and electing "Constitutionally minded" individuals. The system is rotted from the inside. The tree is going to fall whether or not you douse it in pesticides. There comes a time when you just have to plant a new one and let it grow.

reply to post by gwydionblack


See edit

reply to post by gwydionblack


I just don't agree with that.

Aside from a corrupt government. What do you believe stands in the way of getting people elected who would make those reforms possible?

reply to post by projectvxn


You would honestly kill your fellow Americans? Simply because your ordered to?
Wow your messed up more than I thought you were from reading your other posts.

Would you honestly do this in defense of a corrupt government. Man I sure hope I am way off base here. Good luck to you.

reply to post by gwydionblack


I agree. If they refuse to leave office, or abdicate any power. If they refuse the results of elections, if they begin to send goons out to get people who simply disagree with them, that is one thing.

I would grab my rifle and stand next to you for that.

But that day isn't here.

reply to post by Stormwind


In defense of corrupt government? no.

There are conditions that have to be met, in my opinion, before revolution can even be considered an option.

reply to post by projectvxn


Lies. Lies stand in the way.

Anyone can say and do whatever they want leading up to office, but when they step into office there is no holds barred. Anything goes. And there is nothing the American people can stop it.

The system has become so infected that nearly all politicians see this and practice it. It has become a running joke in America that all politicians are liers, and I am sorry but it just isn't funny any more - it is truth.

There is no accountability in government because the government no longer fears the people. They just don't care. The people can't do anything to hurt them. Knock down one puppet, guess what? They have an assembly line of them just waiting to step up to the plate.

It may be cliche to say but people should not be afraid of their government, governments should be afraid of their people. Until we give them something to be afraid of, they don't have a reason to listen to us and they never will. They will continue pushing the boundaries because there will always be someone on the sidelines shouting "C'mon guys! Don't get violent! That is what they WANT us to do!"

Talk about reverse, REVERSE psychology. Because the moment to people became violent, the moment the people stood up, kicked the politicians out of office and made an example of the system - all those who would follow would understand that this is a government for the people, by the people - not the politicians, not the corporations, not the "one percent", THE PEOPLE.

Until then, your change means nothing, the same thing it has meant for the past 130 years.

reply to post by gwydionblack


So, in your opinion, WHO are the targets and why?

Name names.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Stormwind

 

In defense of corrupt government? no.

There are conditions that have to be met, in my opinion, before revolution can even be considered an option.

Your replies are the exact reason a bloody revolution WILL be necessary if anything is too change.

The problem is that a small group of uber wealthy have taken control of all the worlds governments. Yes. Since they have control of all governments, including America's....this means you are working for them. Though you may not realize this, and they must murky your vision so as you can not clearly see it...you are working for them.

People have a problem with corrupt government, when actually it isn't the government that's corrupt. The government is working FINE in the wants of the people who actually control it.

Since the wealthy own the government, they can make any law they wish (Patriot Act). Make no mistake, it is THEY who are making the laws, they just use a theatre to make us believe we are voting for these legislations and bills.

If you were wealthy and evil what would be a more perfect tool to insure you're never booted than the political system we have?

For the record and incase anyone skimmed over it, I'm not saying that all protestors are communists. What I am outlining is the parallels between what happened in Russia and what is happening now.

Those who participated in the original uprising in Russia weren't all out there waving hammer and sickle flags as sworn members of the Bolshevik or Menshevik parties- they were a united group of citizens tired of the existing regime looking for change who were then steered by Lenin towards communism.

What you have on wall street (and across the globe) is that same core group of citizens who have had enough. People from all walks of life, religion, political persuasion, color, etc. etc. desperate for change.

All it takes is one group to grab the reins and propose amendments to the system and an agenda. Then, if the initial agenda and proposal fit what the group feels is appropriate action to remedy the current system...they will follow.

Remember- all dictators started off as savious of the people.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by gwydionblack

 

You know what? Let me change gears here.

Let's say for a moment that a Bolshevik style revolution broke out tomorrow and they wanted a Communist government.

Would you be Ok with the US Army putting it down in order to maintain the integrity of the Union and Constitution?

Edit:

I would be with you if tomorrow the government said "If OWS doesn't disperse we will kill everyone there" and so would many others. I would be with you if government said "We're sending in troops to confiscate all guns and one resisting will be shot".

But that isn't happening.

We need financial reforms and we need to get money out of government. Not bloodshed.

edit on 18-10-2011 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

Or *everyone must be chipped*!!!

They try to chip us ALL hell will break loose.

You made an excellent, people need to know when to stand down
and when to stand up....

OWP is nothing to die for..

If commies try to take over there will be a civil war.
That is what were trying to avoid.

reply to post by gwydionblack


That's the thing though, that IS what the powers that be want.

They WANT YOU to pull out your rifle and go kill politicians, cops, and anyone else that stands in your way.

Why? Because that way they can say "see? you see? They are extremists who want to destroy everything!"

Look, it's not that I disagree entirely with the notion of the conditions that would set the tone for necessity. It's that history shows us that those who engage in revolution RARELY get what they want in the end.

The Founders were extremely LUCKY to have gotten the country they fought for. What makes you think if you and I led a revolution that we would get what we wanted out of it?

Robespierre was a leader of the French Revolution in the end HE was put to the guillotine.

As the OP states, the Russian revolution was justified indeed, but in the end, they spent the next 80 years or so under the thumb of communism.

Not all revolution is good. In fact, in most cases, it winds up worse for the people.

reply to post by projectvxn


Can't do that at the current time. There are still laws and as of right now I am in the confines of the law. The moment I start naming names is the moment I become a target.

Edit to add:

But you suffer from the delusion that a revolution is going to consist of one or two men going and sniping a few politicians. That isn't how it works.

The reason we would be successful in a Revolution is because we already have a plan that worked laid out in front of us. There is no reason not to use the education of our past to ensure our future.

The difference between myself and the Bolsheviks and the French Revolution is that I follow the path of the Founding Fathers. I follow the path of freedom and liberty in the most idealist of states. The only people that who are against such systems are those who wish to CONTROL people. And if you wish to control people, then that is just too bad.

I didn't have to come up with a comprehensive plan for a revolution and what it would be based on. A group of men back in 1775 did that for me. I'm just here to ensure that their will lives on, because it is a will for the betterment of freedom and the people as a whole.

reply to post by popsmayhem


Anyone tries to chip me and I will lead the revolution myself.

reply to post by gwydionblack


Anyone can follow a path, but if shadowy interests take an express route using the work you did?. And I'm not suggesting that the revolution will be two guys sniping politicians.

I'll tell you what. I'm going to take a wait and see approach.

I'm ALWAYS on the side of the Constitution. ALL OF IT.

But I'm not going to ALWAYS be on the side of revolution.

The world isn't the same as it once was. There are foreign interests out there just BEGGING for the US to fall into chaos just so they can get their tentacles on everything. There are all kinds of dubious characters and people in this country who would love to see the down fall of the US and replace it with something much worse, but more to their liking.

I'm saying it is time for CAUTION.


If some rag tag right wing militia started killing anyone they didn't agree with would you stand with them? If some group of people who take a twisted view of the Constitution(but none the less use it's values) started killing people would you simply stand with them? Or would you ask questions of their true motivations?

The world is FAR more complex today than it ever has been.

If the majority of the people in this country(and I'm not talking a slim majority) really felt that it was time, i would back them. And my guess is so would the majority of the US military. But, if some group out of the fringes tried this, you bet I would be right there to stamp them out.

Not all revolutions are equal.

reply to post by projectvxn


I read your post with great interest, it reminded me of myself some 40 years ago.
I would like to continue and say how admirable is your Patriotism that you are willing to lay your life down to preserve the American way.

I would like to be so bold as to offer you some advice from an old Veteran of the Vietnam era.

Don’t check your brain at the door… meaning that you and you alone must make the decision to kill.

Remember this always, every life you take will remain with you for the rest of this life, you will NEVER forget the horror that you dispense on another Human being, so make damn sure that you have the Righteous duty to inflict the damage before you act. The faces of your victims will haunt you the rest of your life.

Your “Duty” is to the American People, not the Army, not the Federal Government, you have but one employer, “We the People”

Defending the Constitution of the United States is most Honorable. Make sure you have read it, so your commanders do not lead you astray.

Your Commanders are just Human beings as well, they put their pants on one leg at a time just as you do, they have the same flaws and fears, they are no better than yourself, and as a Human being they can and will make mistakes, be sure you are smart enough to recognize when they give an illegal order, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO FOLLOW ILLEGAL ORDERS, and “We the People” do not want you to.

Don’t allow the elite of this Nation to use you and your service to the People of the United States for their own Greed.

What you do, will remain with you long after you hang up your uniform, so be very careful to keep your soul pure.

Good luck and stay low.

reply to post by projectvxn


Your solution bears a serious problem.
You cannot take the money out of Washington without removing those who feed them such monetary fair, and you cannot remove those who feed them without legal persuasion, of which they control via government bribery and political pull. It’s a catch-22. The system is broken, and the Constitution holds no power over those who’ve corrupted it. You stand to protect the Constitution, yet you do nothing to protect it.
When revolution breaks out, the people are going to cease paying taxes. Even those that choose not to fight will likely opt out of paying. There goes the funding for your “insurrection suppression.” The machine that is the American Military runs on taxes. Any money you receive will be from private organizations and/or corporations, making you a mercenary, not a U.S. soldier, no matter what colors you wear on your uniform.
Being in the military does not, through some form of default, place you automatically in the right.
No one here is against the Constitution, but if that document has to be burned and rewritten with the ashes of the wicked, then so be it. I will not wager the future of my family against the greed of the past and present.