The man with the gun

No video, just something to listen to as you read.



The Occupy Whatever Street, protests in America have experienced, what I believe, is a bad start.
So we see now, once again, peaceful protests, being met by the police with brutal force.
It has begun and it is going the same old way. So many of you are asking, "Why are the police doing this" ?
The answer to that, I don't believe, runs very deep at all. They believe, they have a job to do and they are
eager to do it. They are up for the fun of beating people, who they don't agree with. They believe they are
protecting society. They choose to believe, a ready made lie, so they can feel good about
the pay they earn, and live their happy lives in comfort, even tho the rest of us are on the brink of
horror.

So this is what I see.

I see a movement, that has really only jumped one move, ahead of itself. While this mistake could be fatal
and prevent its goal from being realised, it's also easily rectified. For quite sometime now, I have stood by
George Carlins stance, that the only answer is massive bloodshed. I'm abandoning that stance for this
alternative. The police are human beings people. That means that thru all the brainwashing and bias propaganda,
all the lies they believe . They still have presence of mind and they can be reasoned with. They are not zombies.
They are not sadistic. They are not without compassion. I don't even believe they are fascists.

I see the man with the gun must first be won.

Do you realise, you are sitting in front of the greatest communication device, man has ever known ? I see that our
oppressors, are very afraid of the internet that sits before you. Do you really believe the liars, when they say they
are worried about the information war ? I don't. Not for a minute. I see them shaking in thier boots because
of the communication that is possible, between us and every police force in the nation, in the world. And what can
be done with that. I see a way to communicate to the police with loads of truth. That they are really the enablers of
evil men. That just because they are being kept happy, in the land that was meant for you and me. Or in other lands
that aren't even quite this free. What they protect mostly is the PTB.

So if you see what I see.

We can help rectify the occupiers mistake by communicating with the police of the whole world. If we can
help them see the evil they are protecting just enough to let these protests go on. Then the tyrants may be toppled
by the same fear they have kept us at bay with for centuries. I see a massive campaign of truth could easily
win the police over. If we just won the NYPD it would most likely start the domino effect. Yes, just like in
the movie V.

I don't think we are very far away people. The movement is there and the police are human.
But it will take a lot more then stomping the pavement and holding our breath. We need to take away the
toys of tyrants. No one who wants this to happen can sit on their but and hope. So we need to a massive
truth program, to help the police see that they are the key. If the simply refuse to molest any protester.
They can bring about a change in this world that may have been fortold by the ancients. They can make
the end of an era and the beginning of a new awakening and a new world in 2012.

I see something totally bitchen that can happen for all men. The rich must be taken down off there high horse.
Not hurt or punished for anything. But there should be no rich no more. It's going to take some ideas.
So use your imagination, to win the possibly few minds, that must be won. We have to communicate with
phone numbers, flyers, personal phone numbers. Any way we can. It has begun and new world can be won.

Can I get some Ideas ?

Alrighty then. I guess this is a pleasant fiction.

I agree with your logic. Not completely but most.

Especially the part about the police. I have been afraid since OWS has escalated that a civil war between the police and the people will break out. I have looked at it as the inevitability of human beings to resort to violence no matter how it is sparked.

But now I'm beginning to think a REAL CHANGE could come without it escalating. Could freedom loving Americans realize fighting each other won't help? A shift of consciousness is what 2012 is about I believe. Not the end of the world.

This time for the first time in human history, because of what we saw come from WW2, we can actually come together as an entire world united and say, "no".

This has a better chance ending peacefully. This is coming from a self labeled pessimist.

I believe good can come when the police realize we are all on the same side. We have the love humanity in our hearts.

reply to post by FreedomXisntXFree


I am super, so glad to see someone actually gets it. You think you are a pessimist ? I'm the worst if you noticed the part about George Carlin. I no longer subscribe to his views, after waking up this morning with this vision of how close we truly are to changing everything. Communication is the hand that will turn the key. I do believe the police are the key.

I see, for the most part, a police force tasked with and attempting to 'do their job' .... with the vast majority truly realizing and actually feeling a part of/sympathizing with the protesters [at least in NYC, DC, and a few other locations]

From what I've seen, the vast majority of 'conflicts', 'arrests', and 'detentions' have occurred when and after law enforcement have simply asked folks to Stay On / Get Back On The Sidewalk. (?)

Having lurked many a locations audio feeds in the background recently ... I can't count the number of times I've heard law enforcement simply asking that folks get back to the sidewalk ... that they can't block or interfere with the flow of traffic on a given thoroughfare, etc.

common sense (?)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Personally, I'm more interested and concerned with how the various states and municipalities are handling these movements and demonstrations.

Seems to me that their reactions and responses are and have been as diverse and myriad as the actual backgrounds, intents and individual purposes of the participants therein said movements and demonstrations.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Personally,
I see both 'sides' as being on a new turf, a gray area, if you will ... with neither having a black and white policy regarding how to proceed further or conduct, organize and/or move forward in a positive manner.

New Ground All Around

reply to post by 12m8keall2c


A brilliant and informed response from Keal. Thank you.

Originally posted by FreedomXisntXFree

I believe good can come when the police realize we are all on the same side.

Please don't try to place us all on the same "side".

If we are all on the same side, then there can be only ONE side, and one side does not fit all.

The protestors themselves are trying to divide us into "sides" with all their talk of a "99"%" and a "1%". They're just trying to re-draw the lines and DRAFT people like me on to their side, to make their side appear larger. Re-districting. Gerrymandering to draft numbers, and nothing more.

Then, after they "win" using the force of those numbers, they will set about weeding the "undesirables" from their ranks, AFTER using their strength.

No thanks. I have no desire to join their collective, or live within the confines of their commune, which apparently they hope to make encompass the Earth. It's MY planet, too, and I'll fight 'em to be left alone on my little patch of it.

Or UNDER my little patch of it, if it comes to that.

reply to post by nenothtu


So you don't / do have a side ? You are your own side ? You wouldn't fight to be free from tyranny ? I find your message cynical even tho it remains quite vague. Maybe you live in the Ozarks or the Blue ridge mountains ?
If thats the case, then I can at least see your point.

For last few decades all the media has done is divide us. I also think when we talk about the global uprising that is occuring.........AMERICA has a chance at not committing the violent uproars we have seen in the past. We the People are still adhering to the guidelines set in the Constitution.

I just hope our 3 branches of government aren't as bought out as I think they are. The problem for them is they are playing 20th Century politics in the 21st Century. The internet gives us instant communication on a level never seen before. In the 40's the radio was the "great communicator". Internet gives us to ability to reach out to one another.

The comment about yourself not wanting to live in "communes" leads me to believe you think that "Occupy" is a "socialist" movement of Free Health Care, Food, Education, etc. But Freedom is the humanitarian program. True freedom allows to keep the money we earn. Not have the government decide where our money should be "invested". They obviously have been screwing that up big time. Maybe even on purpose. The worst kind of government is one that thinks they need to protect us from ourselves. Its tyranny for our "benefit"?

If ever need be.....would you spill your blood to defend this country? Regardless if you're enlisted or civilian? Do you believe in Freedom and that it needs to be fought for to keep it? We have lived far too comfortable our whole lives.

‎"If everyone demanded peace instead of another television set then there would be peace" - John Lennon

I think the very matter that these things are being discussed in everyday conversation is a sign of the times. Look at our commercials. Commercials are selling us things based off of "whats happening" and the "now".

America is literally the last sovereign country in whole world. The world is looking at us to see if real Freedom and the pursuit of happiness is still alive in our minds. The middle east hates us because we as a people have been too stupid to see what our government has actually been doing to the world.

This is a climax in the story human history. The world is standing up and speaking out about greed and corruption within our governments.

reply to post by FreedomXisntXFree


Damn I don't even know what to say to that. That was excellent ! K I love it when someone puts up a post like that on one of my threads. Here we are two negative self proclaimed pessimists and I'm tingling with positive
energy right now. There is something coming and it must be our choice, wheather it will be good or evil.

My largest fear is that our government will turn on us in a Hitler-esqe fashion. That is my pessimism.

History has taught us Good always conquers Evil and that is why we have checks and balances. Things like our Super Congress and Lobbyists undermine our checks and balances in the form of greed and self-interest no matter the cost.

I only pray our government has more Good, honest, people fighting against the Evil inside of it. As this "occupy" movement goes on I only hope the Good people in our government are winning. If Evil wins I am afraid of a holocaust never seen before.

But as the song you referenced says,

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

We better stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

I've believe of "spirituality" in a way. I have begun to believe the more good thoughts(energy) that run through this world will give us good results. The good energy is building.

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by nenothtu

 

So you don't / do have a side ? You are your own side ? You wouldn't fight to be free from tyranny ? I find your message cynical even tho it remains quite vague. Maybe you live in the Ozarks or the Blue ridge mountains ?
If thats the case, then I can at least see your point.

I'm from the Appalachians, west of the Blue Ridge, towards the Cumberlands, but I don't live there now.

I have fought to free others from tyranny, and will most certainly fight to free myself from tyranny. I don't see the benefits in trading one tyranny for another, which is what this "movement" is all about.

Sorry for the vagueness, but yes I am cynical to a fault, with reason. I've seen what these "Glorious People's Revolutions" prosecuted by Collectivists leave in their wake, and will fight like hell to keep it from taking over a neighborhood near you... or me. I know how they work, have seen them in action and have the T-shirt and scars to prove it.

Originally posted by FreedomXisntXFree

This is a climax in the story human history. The world is standing up and speaking out about greed and corruption within our governments.

Q: What comes after the climax?

A: The End.

Originally posted by FreedomXisntXFree

The comment about yourself not wanting to live in "communes" leads me to believe you think that "Occupy" is a "socialist" movement of Free Health Care, Food, Education, etc. But Freedom is the humanitarian program. True freedom allows to keep the money we earn. Not have the government decide where our money should be "invested". They obviously have been screwing that up big time. Maybe even on purpose. The worst kind of government is one that thinks they need to protect us from ourselves. Its tyranny for our "benefit"?

I can only presume this was directed towards me, given the "commune" reference.

No, I don't think it is a "socialist" movement. "Socialist" is a far too narrow definition, as is "communist", "left", "progressive" et al. It is Collectivist, to the very core. Fascists are collectivists as well.

I've heard no talk of "keeping the money we earn" come out of this crowd. What I HAVE heard is "we want more free stuff, no corporations to make that free stuff, and to eat the rich". They seem not to realize, or at least are not articulating very loudly, that in order for a government to give you "free stuff", it first has to TAKE it in order to have it to give.

That brings me to another point - if they seek political change, why are they protesting Wall Street instead of the government? The answer is that the collectivists already have a very firm foothold in our government, and don't want to upset that apple cart. Instead, they are focusing on finance, rather than the politics of finance.

No, tyranny is not for our benefit - neither the one we have, nor the one they want. I see no net benefit in trading one tyranny for another.

If ever need be.....would you spill your blood to defend this country? Regardless if you're enlisted or civilian? Do you believe in Freedom and that it needs to be fought for to keep it? We have lived far too comfortable our whole lives.

Yes, I would, without doubt, hesitation, or remorse, and WITH extreme prejudice.

I don't know about this "we" having lived in comfort all their lives. I've lived right out there in the weeds and the mud and the bugs, right along with the campesinos and peons. I grew up in a shack, with no running water - well, the only running water we had was the water we ran and got. I've done my homework by an oil lamp, and farmed with a horse and a hoe.

I'm not a stranger to discomfort, right up to the point of being comfortable with it if I have to, and I'm telling you right now, from the perspective at the bottom, that this is NOT going to end well.

Your comment about what happens after the "climax" is "the end" I can agree with. But it doesn't mean it will end for all mankind unless Evil wins. Don't we want Good to win?

I hope a good ending comes out of this with a new beginning. Whatever this comes to. Human History looked pretty grim in WW2 but we made it out. Maybe a World War could be diverted this time out of love in peoples hearts.

What you've heard about OWS being a bunch of "collectivists" that just want a hand out is a lie. I admit, I feared this at first too. That people would be demanding socialist ideals without knowing you have to sacrifice freedom to get them. This comment from a fellow ATS-er made me happy that what I was hearing about the demands of the OWS movement wasn't the truth as I assumed. This post encouraged me that doing WHAT'S RIGHT will be the ending of this story. So long as the people demand it.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Btw my comment about "living comfortable our whole lives" was directed towards middle class citizens which I fall under. But the middle class is a dying breed and its slowly becoming just the RICH and POOR.

I am sorry to hear that you didn't have some of the things I have taken for granted growing up. But no longer. I have grown up and denied ignorance. Sadly ignorance is bliss for some.

As more people go down to these protest they probably do go down with a "collectivist" attitude. The uninformed go down thinking "I want the government to do this and that with our money because I'm entitled to certain rights".

What I think they learn once they get to the protests is that people are there spreading the word as to how that mentality tricks you into needing the government to help you with your life.

Take this for instance. Lets just say you have a job and you work hard. Doesn't matter if you're upper class, middle class, or lower class.

Out of all the money you make you get to keep 90% of it. But 10% goes to the Federal Government to do its job up keeping our bridges and roads and whatever else. Freedom to spend the money you make in and put it towards what you think is a good investment.

That means people would have more money in their wallets. So another hypothetical question pops up. If your friend or family member got injured and needed help paying medical costs they people around you would have enough money to help. I know I would help if I had extra cash in my pocket. But maybe that is just me.

Churches have also shown to help people in times of need.

We as a people just need to be earning an amount of money that isn't kept at a minimum to live and struggle to get by. The elite in this world are so greedy that they horde all the money, illegally or legally, and keep enough of it so there's barely anything for us.

Keith Olbermann reads the OWS plea. Listen to the words. Don't get distracted by the images even though they do mean just as much.





Maybe I'm a collectivist. I don't know. But I care about people. Our brains are programmed that way almost. Its not that I want to live on a commune by any means. But a "commune" mentality in terms of Food, Healthcare, and Education is attainable if all the wealth that was EARNED by the 99% was in possession of the 99%. Because we are the ones that do ALL OF THE WORK.

Obviously the ones who work the hardest deserve the most. But "working hard" to figure out how to screw people out of money is wrong. That is what we face with this Occupy movement.

90% of the wealth/resources in this world is controlled by the 1%. Yet they sit in a little office somewhere and watch the money pile up on the backs of hard working individuals just trying to make ends meet.

You just give me the impression if that you are just accepting this current tyranny because you believe the other route is tyranny even though it boasts of wanting to better humanity. That's the only part I see that I feel you are mistaken. I can see how a collectivist attitude could be used against us and be corrupted like socialism and communism where the people higher on the totem pole get to run things which is where corruption ruins a good idea. The US of A was a good idea and corruption has spilled into our capitalist government as well. I still believe in Capitalism as its been proven to work.

Maybe I misunderstood you. Either way, good conversation going. These things need to be discussed.

So when you tell me "Don't place you on the same side"....I'm not placing you. If you aren't Rich we are on the same side because the rich pull the levers of how much we struggle. They show us that 90% of wealth for the 1% still isn't enough.........to make them happy.