Local terror plot suspect described as more a 'joke' than mastermind

reply to post by Xcathdra


No offense, but that link is to an opinion page on CNN.

Here is a bit about the authors

Editor's note: Jamsheed K. Choksy is professor of Iranian, Central Eurasian, Islamic and International Studies, senior fellow at the Center on American and Global Security and former director of the Middle Eastern Studies program at Indiana University. Carol E. B. Choksy is adjunct lecturer in Strategic Intelligence and Information Management at Indiana University. She also is CEO of IRAD Strategic Consulting, Inc., which provides services to government agencies, companies, and organizations.

Biased? Most likely

They are nothing but media mercenaries.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Yup, its an opinion piece. I was pointing out that possible repercussions for Iran would actually be positive and not negative. If Iran is linked into this, its win win for them on their homefront.

reply to post by Xcathdra

Actually the White House went another step farther, and announced they have been in direct contact with the Iranian government over this incident.

I was under the impression you were associating that link with the above quote. If that is not the case, then I apologize for misunderstanding.

I've read most entries in this thread. Both sides have some valid points, although some have more than others.

I do believe that there was a plot to assassinate the Saudi ambassador in a DC restaurant. Now at this point the story becomes foggy. I question the timing of the info release, and I would not doubt it if the admin used it to take the spotlight off of the subpoena being served to Eric Holder. That's some of it, that's the extent of the govt deceit here.

What I totally discount is the immediate knee jerk response of some members. To them, it's always a false flag operation carried out by "al-CIA-da". Every time, without fail. And anybody that doesn't agree with that "worldly view" from these "very experienced, in-the-know members" is a govt plant or a very naive sheeple. These members are the most dangerous, because their immediate cynicism makes it that much easier for a real terrorist plot to succeed. These members are the ripe fruit on the low hanging branches.

The worst thing is all of you are working with very few facts, and none of them important. And you will get NO FACTS; the govt is under no obligation to share their evidence with you. So don't bother demanding facts.

Sit back and relax, stop insulting each other. The story will unfold in it's own time...

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


Being all we have right now is a basic story that is lacking in solid facts, my comments are nothing more than my opinion on what might be going on and how those actions might affect Iran - nothing more. One of my points was if Iran is behind this, whether or not it succeeds or fails, Iran will come out ahead.

I think Iran severely underestimates the US military while overestimating their own (again opinion). Any way you slice this the group of people who are going to approve of this are the hardliners in the government.

If Iran is attacked they will spin the info that makes the US / Allies look like the agressor. If we dont attack it will make the US / Allies look incompetent.

Either way, a propoganda win for Iran.

The only thing that will head that off at the pass is if the administration backs up its claims with actual evidence that is valid, which apparently it is doing. Ive seen some news accounts that these guys are being charged using evidence that can be verified. Until that info comes out though, we are guessing.

What I find interesting though is the reaction by people (including the ones in these forums) who arent screaming bloody murder over the US's possible response. If Bush were still in office they would be burning effigies of him on the White House lawn.

Secondly, while I understand why people are skeptical about the US accusations, it does seem odd to assume Obama is going to pick up where Bush left off. I dont care for Obama and I dont believe in his ability to be an effective leader or commander in chief. With that being said Obama did open the door to possible diplomatic relations when he first took office and continued down that road up to the present, with no tangible results.

One must ask, based on Obamas stance on Iran when he took office, and his stance on Iran now, what information is Obama seeing that cant be shown in public?

Originally posted by Corruption Exposed
reply to post by TortoiseKweek

 

It looks like the general population has been conditioned to believe these fabrications. A perfect example is that 10 years after 911, we still have people thinking that 19 cave dwelling Arabs flew those planes into the Pentagon.

So you're right, looks like hey may have a winning formula. I can only hope people snap out of their propaganda induced slumber before it's too late.

Those 19 "cave dwelling" arabs were anything but cave dwelling. They were educated, took various martial arts studies, flight school, ect.... yep...typical cave dwellers... Have you ever tried flying an airplane? I have a buddy that does...he is a genius

One thing I find odd is that Manssor Arbabsiar was given a public defender....

Why not an expensive lawyer?

Hard to believe that his watchdogs were not monitoring the whole thing.

Docket Text

anything else "funny" with this?

Gaps in the Iran Plot Docket to Go Along with the Gaps in the Story

There are a couple of weird aspects to the docket.....

First (and this is what got me looking at the docket in the first place), the complaint is an amended complaint. That says there’s a previous complaint. But that complaint is not in the docket. Not only is it not in the docket, but the docket starts with the arrest on September 29 (notice the docket lists his arrest twice, on both September 29 and October 11), but the numbering starts with the amended complaint (normally, even if there were a sealed original complaint, it would be incorporated within the numbering, such that the docket might start with the amended complaint but start with number 8 or something).

reply to post by xuenchen


A Public defender is assigned when the accused cannot afford an attorney on their own. I thought the judge in the case assigned the public defender but also gave time for him to contact his family to retain private council.

As far as the FBI goes it is possible they werent the lead agency in the begining. We still dont have the info that explains in detail how the events were set in motion either.

The issues with the docket is there is no issue. The PA / AUSA are responsible for going forward with any criminal complaints (IE they can charge the person or decline to prosecute. Amending a complaint is also nothing new and occurs a lot in the legal system.

As an example I worked a burglary (homeowners were sleeping). When we caught the guy I submitted my PC with the elements of 2nd degree burglary. The PA amended the charge and raised it to 1st degree burglary because people were present in the house.

Once all the legalities / investigation is complete they can file the charges, at which point the case is assigned to a judge and placed on the court docket to officaly start the court proceedings. If a PA / AUSA rushes the charge, and they get to the point of witnesses being sworn in, jeopardy is attached (cant be charged for the same crime twice).

Its possible that new information was developed that allows for additional charges or upgrading the charges.

Im really curious as to how they developed the information in the first place.

reply to post by Xcathdra

When Ahmadenijad fired the justice minister, the Ayatollah reinstated him.

He just asked his-ayatollah's opinion and he did as ayatollah Khamenei said.

Several members of Ahmadenijads cabinet have been arrested.

Not true.

Not sure what issues you are trying to downplay as ignorable.

Be sure , When it comes to outside enemy , it is ignorable.

The Iranian government is hurting the Iranian people, not the US.

The ones who are being played by American god blessed Persian media are being bombard by the same bs that American people are being bombard. They are some stupid gulls who think that America is transmitting the news for them for gad sake. They are much blind that can not see their neighbor-Iraq is being played by TPTB which is making the anarchy to stay in Iraq and taking out Iraq's oil.

So they have chosen the wrong source to hear the news from.

They are hurting ??? No. they are being taught to be hurt.

I haven't seen much people being hurt in Iran.

The whole Green movement bs was a sinister velvet revolution which was being played by fools.

I was one of those fools. But I am aware , now. Many are aware now.

I have educated lots of people about TPTB and Zionism.

So , you better know that anything you said about Iran is wrong in the conclusion and Iranian people are aware of their enemy offering a fascist hand in a velvet glove.

I am saying every thing by my own wide observation in Iran , as an eyewitness.

America has always been an enemy for the Islamic revolution and is not going to credit our revolution because it thinks about it's injustice kind of One world government for the 1 %.

I am so glad that American people are aware now about those 1 %.

reply to post by Xcathdra

I was pointing out that possible repercussions for Iran would actually be positive and not negative.

America has already started the lose-lose game and you blame it on Iran. Just more pressure on Iranian people :

In addition to prosecuting the men, Obama told reporters that the US would continue "to apply the toughest sanctions and continue to mobilise the international community to make sure that Iran is further and further isolated and pays a price for this kind of behaviour".

AJ-e

If Iran is attacked they will spin the info that makes the US / Allies look like the agressor. If we dont attack it will make the US / Allies look incompetent.

You just worry about what US govt will look ??

I do believe that Iran will never attack on American soil first . But as America has shown aggressive-arrogance stance , it will be going to attack Iran and killing Iranian innocent people.

You don't care about people being killed and you just care about what US govt will look like.

This is why you are American.

Ive seen some news accounts that these guys are being charged using evidence that can be verified. Until that info comes out though, we are guessing.

The evidence will come out like evidence of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq came out.

American govt is just like a arrogant ogre flying over Middle East.

With that being said Obama did open the door to possible diplomatic relations when he first took office and continued down that road up to the present, with no tangible results.

Obama just tried to use Social Networks as infra structure to bring Iran to his knees and he failed. So , he is trying to use the same old tools Bush was using for Political change in Iran.

One must ask, based on Obamas stance on Iran when he took office, and his stance on Iran now, what information is Obama seeing that cant be shown in public?

Are you asking ?? or you just offer others to ask ??

Originally posted by hmdphantom
He just asked his-ayatollah's opinion and he did as ayatollah Khamenei said.

Actually no he did not. Ahmadenijad appointed people to act as ambassadors, and the Ayatolah forced the recall

Originally posted by hmdphantom
Not true.

Yes true
Ahmadinejad-Khamenei Rift Deepens
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad warns opponents against detaining ministers

Iran's president defends his government after several key allies were detained amid rift with Ayatollah Ali Khamenei

“Special Envoy” Appointments Pit Ahmadinejad Against Khamenei

Originally posted by hmdphantom
Be sure , When it comes to outside enemy , it is ignorable.

riiiiggghhhtt....

Originally posted by hmdphantom
The ones who are being played by American god blessed Persian media are being bombard by the same bs that American people are being bombard. They are some stupid gulls who think that America is transmitting the news for them for gad sake. They are much blind that can not see their neighbor-Iraq is being played by TPTB which is making the anarchy to stay in Iraq and taking out Iraq's oil.

So they have chosen the wrong source to hear the news from.

Can you clarify this comment? I dont know what you are trying to say.

Originally posted by hmdphantom
They are hurting ??? No. they are being taught to be hurt.

All the more reason for the Iranian people to change the government. We can do a thread just on the topic of how Iran treats its citizens alone. When its taught in school that Israel and the US are satan, its the Iranian governments fault.

The plight of the Iranian people falls squarely onto the shoulders of the Iranian government and no one else.

Originally posted by hmdphantom
I haven't seen much people being hurt in Iran.

That would be because their media is state controlled. They arent going to run news about the number of citiens the Iranian government kills / beats etc. Iranian media is not so much a news source as it is a court stenographer.

Originally posted by hmdphantom
I was one of those fools. But I am aware , now. Many are aware now.

I wouldnt count your chickens before they are hatched. Its just to bad that Iran went on a killing spree to end those demonstrations. Its all the more perplexing that even occured since Ahmadenijad has stated people in Iran are free to express their opinions. Apparently they forgot to add the part about being killed for doing so.

Originally posted by hmdphantom
I have educated lots of people about TPTB and Zionism.

Are you using the Hamas material or one of the other groups how want to see Israel wiped off the map? Or was your source stormfront?

Originally posted by hmdphantom
So , you better know that anything you said about Iran is wrong in the conclusion and Iranian people are aware of their enemy offering a fascist hand in a velvet glove.

You have your opinion, I have mine. Eventually though and the others will need to take your blinders off and look at the entire picture, and not just the parts you are told to believe.

Originally posted by hmdphantom
I am saying every thing by my own wide observation in Iran , as an eyewitness.

You cant be at every single place at all times. Just because you didnt see anything, doesnt mean it didnt occur. If there was nothing to see then why did the Iranian government close down all media outlets? If there is nothing to see there is no reason to restrict the media.

Originally posted by hmdphantom
America has always been an enemy for the Islamic revolution and is not going to credit our revolution because it thinks about it's injustice kind of One world government for the 1 %.

I am so glad that American people are aware now about those 1 %.

Actually thats not true. Our fuirst encounter with Islam was during the days of the barbary pirates in the med when they were attacking merchant vessels. We sent an envoy to find common ground. The response received from those muslim groups was the typical if you are not Muslim, you should be killed because you are an infidel.

That info is in the History books, however I think Iran may have dropped it though for sections dealing with the great satan, the lesser satan, denial of the hollocaust and how best to destroy Israel.

reply to post by hmdphantom


Please do me a favor and actually read my posts before responding to them. You are either missing or not understanding key points and the context they are placed in. The manner in which you only see what you want while twisting the rest is counter productive.

If you want me to clarify by all means ask and I will.

If you are from that part of the world maybe you should take the time to actually give us a well thought out response so we all can learn. Why pass up the opprotunity?

Originally posted by hmdphantom
The evidence will come out like evidence of Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq came out.

Wikileaks release sheds light on Iraqs wmd program and how much was found

In case anyone is wondering the UN resolutions dealing with WMD and Iraq states no / none / nadda / zip / zilch
wmd programs. It doesnt say no wmds unless its in small quantities.

I don't post often but read all the time. The Obama administration has reminded me of Alan Alda's President in "Canadian Bacon" since day one. I love the way the since of hapless ineptitude they both share.
Anyways...have you considered maybe these are getting more and more ridiculous on purpose? At least in my opinion, the only thing that gets more attention than a hot story is a hot story that smells of conspiracy / untruth.
We ARE talking about this "plot"...lots of people are. Only they're laughing and mocking it...but talking about it all the same.
I get this image of a "drunken" man knocking into people on the street to pick their pockets. Classic distraction technique...and it works whether truth is involved or not.

Just my $.02 worth

Originally posted by jpalasty
I don't post often but read all the time. The Obama administration has reminded me of Alan Alda's President in "Canadian Bacon" since day one. I love the way the since of hapless ineptitude they both share.
Anyways...have you considered maybe these are getting more and more ridiculous on purpose? At least in my opinion, the only thing that gets more attention than a hot story is a hot story that smells of conspiracy / untruth.
We ARE talking about this "plot"...lots of people are. Only they're laughing and mocking it...but talking about it all the same.
I get this image of a "drunken" man knocking into people on the street to pick their pockets. Classic distraction technique...and it works whether truth is involved or not.

Just my $.02 worth

100% right on

your $.02 is worth $200 (inflation adjusted of course)....

please post more often !!!!

reply to post by jpalasty


Lol good movie... Since you are ignoring the requirements for travelling in Canada, let me help you out -

don' ; poteau de t souvent mais lu toute l'heure. L'administration d'Obama m'a rappelé Alan Alda' ; président de s dans le " ; Bacon" canadien ; depuis le jour un. J'aime la manière depuis du manque de justesse malchanceux ils les deux part. Quoi qu'il en soit… ayez-vous considéré peut-être ceux-ci obtiennent de plus en plus ridicules sur le but ? Au moins à mon avis, la seule chose qui obtient plus d'attention qu'une histoire chaude est une histoire chaude cette des odeurs de conspiration/de mensonge. Nous parlons de ce " ; plot" ; … un bon nombre de gens sont. Seulement they' ; le rire re et railler… mais parler de lui tous les mêmes. J'obtiens cette image d'un " ; drunken" ; équipez le frappement dans des personnes sur la rue pour sélectionner leurs poches. La technique classique de distraction… et elle fonctionne, que la vérité soit impliquée ou pas. Juste ma valeur $.02



As far as the plot it doesnt have to be as complex as the space shuttle is. You have the target, you know where its at, you know what city its in, you know they go out in public. Any goober with a gun could be the next lee harvey by accident.

People tend to over complicate things...

example -

NASA spent a few million dollars developing a pen that works in space.

The Soviets used a pencil.

Sometimes simplicity is genious, and can be more effective than a mission impossible type movie.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Well the way i see it its nothing more then a false flag an excuse to start a war, however if america fails to fake the proof, its all over and if more people are coming out supporting the guy, saying he was a drunk and not a plot maker or that he didnt have the brains to do obama is done for

We can only wait and see.

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Well the way i see it its nothing more then a false flag an excuse to start a war, however if america fails to fake the proof, its all over and if more people are coming out supporting the guy, saying he was a drunk and not a plot maker or that he didnt have the brains to do obama is done for

We can only wait and see.

Thats my attitude right now on it. The 14 members of the Security council have been briefed by the the US and so far the reactions cooming from it have been from cautious (Russia and China) to demanding answers from Tehran (Germany).

The overall sentiment is the evidence does show that Iran is linked to the plot, but no one can for certain say just how high that knowledge of the plot goes.

As far as theother threads go on attacking Iran, I dont see it. The Us views the attempt as an attempted act of terrorism, and the Saudis are pissed, but not really sure how they will respond. So far its been "a measured response" as the answer from them.

The US has to put all of its cards on the table in order to show how we started at A and ended at Z with all the questions inbetween answered and spelled out. Absent that I think any response to Tehran that goes beyond sanctions (which Russia is absolutely refusing to support, regardless of evidence per their ambassador) is going to be viewed as suspect and an over reaction.