July 4 Not Independence Day, George Washington Not 1st US President, Stars & Stripes Not Real Flag

reply to post by Red Cloak
No, not so much.

1) We formally *declared* (not voted to declare) independence on July 4th - thus, it's independence day.

2) Hancock (or anyone prior to him) was not the first president of the country "the united States" because we weren't an independent nation prior to July 4 1776, and did not ID ourselves as the united states until the declaration was written and the 2nd continental congress wrote the articles of confederation and named us the united states in 1777.

3) Not really understanding the argument here - the stars and stripes is the official flag of the US, and not just it's military? (even though it started as a naval ID, as pretty much all flags did) Silly argument.

4) 1777 was well before the Civil War - granted, the Betsy Ross story is debatable.

No BS spin involved, these are verifiable matters of history, semantic understanding, and definition. Where exactly does this grand conspiracy lie, other than the History Channel not clarifying things well and muddying the waters?

Originally posted by Praetorius
reply to post by Red Cloak

 

No, not so much.

1) We formally *declared* (not voted to declare) independence on July 4th - thus, it's independence day.

2) Hancock (or anyone prior to him) was not the first president of the country "the united States" because we weren't an independent nation prior to July 4 1776, and did not ID ourselves as the united states until the declaration was written and the 2nd continental congress wrote the articles of confederation and named us the united states in 1777.

3) Not really understanding the argument here - the stars and stripes is the official flag of the US, and not just it's military? (even though it started as a naval ID, as pretty much all flags did) Silly argument.

4) 1777 was well before the Civil War - granted, the Betsy Ross story is debatable.

No BS spin involved, these are verifiable matters of history, semantic understanding, and definition. Where exactly does this grand conspiracy lie, other than the History Channel not clarifying things well and muddying the waters?

The issue is why is all of this IGNORED and only the official version is focused on? Surely you can see how this is very suspicious and odd?

Originally posted by Red Cloak
1. July 4th is not Independence Day. It is actually July 2nd.

The 2nd was when the resolution was approved in closed session, but the 4th was when the Declaration of Independence was signed, dated and approved.

During the American Revolution, the legal separation of the Thirteen Colonies from Great Britain occurred on July 2, 1776, when the Second Continental Congress voted to approve a resolution of independence that had been proposed in June by Richard Henry Lee of Virginia.[4][5] After voting for independence, Congress turned its attention to the Declaration of Independence, a statement explaining this decision, which had been prepared by a Committee of Five, with Thomas Jefferson as its principal author. Congress debated and revised the Declaration, finally approving it on July 4. A day earlier, John Adams had written to his wife Abigail:

The second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epoch in the history of America. I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary festival. It ought to be commemorated as the day of deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires, and illuminations, from one end of this continent to the other, from this time forward forever more.[6]
Adams's prediction was off by two days. From the outset, Americans celebrated independence on July 4, the date shown on the much-publicized Declaration of Independence, rather than on July 2, the date the resolution of independence was approved in a closed session of Congress.[7]

Source

Given that I think it makes more sense to celebrate the 4th regardless of what the History Channel thinks.

Originally posted by Red Cloak
2. George Washington was not the first President of the United States. John Hancock was.

Washington was the first president who took an oath to support the newly ratified Constitution, that is why he is generally regarded as the first president of the US. If you want to define the formation date of the "United States" as something other than ratification of the constitution by all 13 states, then you'd have to define the first "president" differently, but that's splitting hairs.

More here.

Originally posted by Red Cloak
3. The stars and stripes is not the actual flag of the US. It's actually the war time flag of the US military.

Actually yes, it is the actual flag of the US. It would be more correct to say "it wasn't always recognized as the official flag of the US" then to say that it's not the actual flag. It wasn't adopted until after the US had been formed, and even then it was largely just used by the military for identification purposes. It didn't gain symbolic importance until the civil war:

The modern meaning of the flag, was forged in December 1861, when Major Robert Anderson, acting without orders, moved the American garrison from Fort Moultrie to Fort Sumter, in Charleston Harbor, in defiance of the power of the new Confederate States of America. Goodheart argues this was the opening move of the Civil War, and the flag was used throughout the North to symbolize American nationalism and rejection of secessionism.

Before that day, the flag had served mostly as a military ensign or a convenient marking of American territory, flown from forts, embassies, and ships, and displayed on special occasions like the Fourth of July. But in the weeks after Major Anderson's surprising stand, it became something different. Suddenly the Stars and Stripes flew – as it does today, and especially as it did after September 11 – from houses, from storefronts, from churches; above the village greens and college quads. For the first time American flags were mass-produced rather than individually stitched and even so, manufacturers could not keep up with demand. As the long winter of 1861 turned into spring, that old flag meant something new. The abstraction of the Union cause was transfigured into a physical thing: strips of cloth that millions of people would fight for, and many thousands die for.[3]

Source

Originally posted by Red Cloak
4. Betsy Ross did not actually create the stars and stripes.

She probably did not, there's no documentation to verify the Betsy Ross legend.

Originally posted by Red Cloak
Now, considering all of this, we have to accept the reality that there is an enormous conspiracy by the US government, media, and certainly all the educational systems and the book publishers.

Deny ignorance.

reply to post by Cloudsinthesky


The show is called "Brad Meltzer's Decoded"

Originally posted by Red Cloak

A lot of occultists teach that Jesus Christ was born on September 11th. It's actually a well held belief amongst the Masons, Illuminati, Satanists.......

Regarding 'Satanists,' once again that would depend on interpretation. Your interpretation, or the reality of it.

I don't know any Satanists, who believe in a god. Satanists accept the responsibility for their own actions, and do not blame an invisible entity, for the choices that they make for themselves.

Originally posted by Red Cloak

All he explained was that "accepted history" is lying about all of those things and [color=E89D82]the History Channel is correct. That people choose to "interpret" it as they are told to by schools, the government, the media - instead of actually taking it for how it really happened.

Such as this↓ part?

Originally posted by Red Cloak

So according to the History Channel...........
2. George Washington was not the first President of the United States. John Hancock was.

Originally posted by Praetorius

2) John Hancock was president of the Continental Congress for awhile, not president of the US after it was declared as such and claimed independence - that was Washington.

I'm not seeing the truth behind this claim of yours, that 'The History Channel is correct."

reply to post by Red Cloak

The issue is why is all of this IGNORED and only the official version is focused on? Surely you can see how this is very suspicious and odd?

On these topics, not so much...other issues, definitely so. These simply aren't good examples of anything shady and have very simple clarifications.

On other issues as I mentioned, though, there are VERY good questions about why things are covered up and (usually questionable) official versions focused on - with usually disturbing answers. I just can't get much out of these mentioned cases...a little looking will show they aren't really false historically, they just come down to specifics and classifications.

Was this on Decoded? I'll have to try to find the episode and see what was covered for myself, but as presented these seem little goofy quibblings without much substance when looked into.

Now, research on the true causes of the Civil War, the Pearl Harbor attack, US gov't/military tests conducted without consent or due process, various official lies and truly buried histories can get us talking about some good things...I just have a hard time getting excited over these four points. As officer Barbrady would say, "Nothing to see here, move along."

The stars and stripes not around until the civil war....BS.

This is just media disinformation designed to confuse the confusable.

Want a conspiracy, check out the various flags flown by the East India Company of GB. Betsy was not very imaginative or original, and possibly not even involved in the process except maybe as a seamstress.

The United States does indeed have a Civilian Flag, it used to fly over Federal buildings.

It ceased flying over America after Russia helped Lincoln defeat the South. Then the Federal Military Flag flew over America to this day.

www.civil-liberties.com/pages/mystery_of_the_flag.htm

Originally posted by billy197300

The History Channel also says that aliens have been enslaving humans for thousands of years. And that weird guy with the crazy hair on Ancient Aliens is sane.

Actually, in History Channel's defence, they always preface their stories with "Ancient astronaut theorists suggest/believe....."

Threads like this are why I love ATS.

The more the OP thinks they know something, the better.

Star and flag for you, sir. Even if almost everything you said was false.

Originally posted by Alchemst7
FLAG Martial Law; "Pursuant to 4 U.S.C. chapter 1, §§1, 2, & 3; Executive Order 10834, August 21, 1959; 24 F.R.6865; a military flag is a flag that resembles the regular flag of the United States, except that it has a YELLOW FRINGE border on three sides. The president of the United States designates this deviation from the regular flag, by executive order, and in his capacity as Commander-in-Chief.

Uh no. I posted a link to 4 USC 1 and EO 10834 above. Check it out some time.

President, Dwight David Eisenhower, by Executive Order No.10834, signed on August 21, 1959 and printed in the Federal Register at 24 F.R. 6865, pursuant to law, stated that: "A military flag is a flag that resembles the regular flag of the United States, except that it has a Yellow Fringe border on three sides."

Here is a scan of EO 10834 from the Eisenhower Presidential Center. You will see that the words you quote are not found in the Order.

FLAG Martial law; "The use of such a fringe is prescribed in current Army Regulation no. 260-10." 34 Ops. Atty. . Gen. 483, 485.

There is no AR series 260. Maybe there was in the past, but it would only be controlling law for the Army, not for the nation.

source: US Flag code

That's not the US Flag Code. It's another one of those crazy sites that thinks the Revenue Cutter Service flag is some kind of "forgotten civil flag." I knew someone would bring that up. It is not now, nor has it ever been, the national flag of the United States. It is, however, with a small modification, still the ensign of the US Coast Guard. Which is a branch of the military, not the civil service.

Originally posted by GringoViejo
Threads like this are why I love ATS.

The more the OP thinks they know something, the better.

Star and flag for you, sir. Even if almost everything you said was false.

I think you have it backwards.
It isn't 'Embrace Ignorance' or 'Promote Ignorance.'
It is 'Deny Ignorance.'

reply to post by BrokenCircles


Problem?

Oh, I see, you think stars and flags mean something. As if giving someone a star and flag promotes or embraces their ignorance.

The only thing funnier than these types of threads are the people who get all ruffled over stars and flags.

This thread was a two-for-one.

reply to post by GringoViejo

If you could just put a YELLOW MILITARY FRINGE on this thread, it would be complete.

reply to post by FurvusRexCaeli

Originally posted by billy197300
The History Channel also says that aliens have been enslaving humans for thousands of years. And that weird guy with the crazy hair on Ancient Aliens is sane.

Is that what he said really ? ´enslaving´? Or Aliens ´visiting´ humans?

George Washington was actually a black slave in white face.!?!?.

Ok, maybe not, but he was the last white person with that last name.

Is this really an issue like who became the first President? Or what color a flag is? So if American flag is wrong, what do you do with it? Like change ´em? I like some more vivid colors how about a flourescent one with less stars and a moon? Its a flag and it has nothing to do with how much you love your native place.

reply to post by GringoViejo

Originally posted by GringoViejo

Oh, I see, you think stars and flags mean something. As if giving someone a star and flag promotes or embraces their ignorance.

The only thing funnier than these types of threads are the people who get all ruffled over stars and flags.

I'm not quite sure what causes you to think that I am 'ruffled over' something, that I have not even mentioned. It is obviously you, who is concerned with them. If not, then why do you keep bringing it up?


The ignorance being embraced, is your own.
You displayed that, with this↓ statement.

Threads like this are why I love ATS.

Yes, this↓ is the statement, where you are promoting ignorance, but that is not my opinion. There is no disputing the fact that those are methods, which are used on this site, to promote the opinions and posts of other members.

Star and flag for you, sir.

[color=5AE8B9]Next time, try to remember that it is 'Deny Ignorance.'
If you can remember that, then you may just be able to lessen your own ignorance.

reply to post by BrokenCircles


You can infer whatever you like from my post, that doesn't mean you're correct, or that your opinion is somehow a fact.

Oh, and as far as stars and flags go, they're meaningless. If it gives me a laugh, I'll give it a star. If you don't like it, too bad.

And I'm sorry, just because someone doesn't think the same way you do doesn't make them ignorant. Thinking so is rather... well, ignorant, don't you think?