It's on! Choose your future now!

Originally posted by Dionisius
Yet again you are not thinking for yourself and putting my post out of context, He was saying that we should not always depend 100% on knowledge and should try to use our imagination instead of only using previous knowledge or facts. After all, everything we know throughout history has always been proven to be different through people using their imagination. Apart from death of course, everyone dies. That is the only absolute in life

With all my respect, Dionisius, I would like to explain this is not exactly so. I am not saying we should just use our imagination. We shouldn't depend only on knowledge, because we don't really have knowledge. Most of the things, even might say 99% of that we think we know, we actually don't know at all, but have been taught. That's right - most of the things we think we know we have learned second hand - from books, from school, from media and from culture. Even science - most of it is not easily observable, so it can be manipulated. We are conveniently programmed by belief systems to think we know by ourselves, while we actually do not have the slightest idea about the reality. So it's not productive to rely 100% on popular knowledge. What can we do then?

Imagination is a good thing, but it won't be just enough. Instead of relying only on knowledge of the mind, which as said could be easily manipulated, we can turn to knowledge of the heart, which cannot. Why? As I already said - it's the portal of our true selfves. How to do that? Through meditation, which is not at all some 'mystical practice', it's as mystical as jogging at the park is. Again and again I will be saying - don't believe me, try it for youselves. What are you going to lose, except of your limited point of view?

Just to add, death is not the absolute. Use your imagination.

Originally posted by thebtheb

I think some of these theories will never be proven by current scientific methods because some of the things they posit simply aren't measurable.

They already have been. But more on this tommorow. I can't keep on posting, I have a life I am 7 hours ahead, in a time, which you consider 'future'. So for you may be tonight, but for me is 'now' so I gotta go to sleep.

Originally posted by thebtheb If someone leaves their body, there's no way to measure what that person perceives or experiences during this time. But what that person does experience is no less important in the full understanding of something IMO. But science usually automatically relegates it to the trash heap if it can't be touched, held and measured. I can definitely say that a lot of my beliefs about the nature of reality have been gleaned from my own experience, and I'm not waiting around for a thumbs up or thumbs down from science.

Good for you! Keep the open mind!

Originally posted by thebtheb
I think some of these theories will never be proven by current scientific methods because some of the things they posit simply aren't measurable. If someone leaves their body, there's no way to measure what that person perceives or experiences during this time. But what that person does experience is no less important in the full understanding of something IMO. But science usually automatically relegates it to the trash heap if it can't be touched, held and measured. I can definitely say that a lot of my beliefs about the nature of reality have been gleaned from my own experience, and I'm not waiting around for a thumbs up or thumbs down from science.

I can agree somewhat.

Certain things may never be fully measurable or understood. In string theory, they state the strings are so very tiny, in fact many millions of times smaller than even an electron, we may never be able to observe a string.

I disagree with astral projection not being testable however. Sure, you may not be able to test the incorporeal form of the traveller, but you could certainly ask them to visit a site and ask them to explain the surroundings. What was on the wall? How many pens on the table? Things like that. Astral travel is a myth. Those who claim they can do it have been tested in this manner, and never once has concinving evidence been obtained.

First of all id like to thank you for responding to my post, even if our veiws do not match.

Originally posted by ElevenFlint
But they were to plant the seeds of the new consciousness and that was exactly what they did

I disagree. There have been forward thinking people thoughout history, with the strange exception of the dark ages. The Rennasance was a perfect example and much art and inventions were created. Why was a time such as that not a candidate for your ascension? Why could it have not happened then? Why do you claim this ascension is going to happen now? Since you mention the Mayan calender, i assume you beleive in 2012. I refuse to believe in prophecy, as the existance of true prophecy precludes free will. I refuse to believe im not in control of my destiny and it was laid out millions of years before i was born.

Originally posted by ElevenFlint
The so called “ascension” is actually a natural way of evolution. There is no mystery to it all. It’s as mysterious as the people outgrowing their need of fur or tails. Noone will be “magically plucked up and moved to a better world”. There’s no reason for this. If you have a terrible performance at school and don’t pass your exams do they “magically” make you graduate? You move forward when you are ready with all the work you have to do. To understand how this works you have to understand that this is not about a lifetime and there is much more to life than the things that we see. Everything vibrates at a certain frequency – this is even a popular science today – the atom is such a solid structure because it spins very fast. As the Earth evolves it begins to vibrate on higher frequencies. This is a simple natural process and there is nothing “magical” or “mysterious” about it. Because there is such thing as resonance (as stereologist pointed out, sadly he is too ignorant on the matter), which is a natural law what states that things of the same or close frequencies are pulled together and those of different frequencies are pulled apart, if people remain vibrating too low their existence on Earth,

Im not sure which science you are refering to that claims everything is vibrating, but im assuming its string theory. In this theory, yes, the string vibrate, and the way they vibrate give the protons, neutrons and electrons they make up their properties. Now where i think your going off the track is in assuming that this "vibration" is transfered to the mass they make up as a whole. This simply isnt true, and if it is, ive never read of it. Please link me an article explaining such a thing. I have read of what you speak many times on either ATS or elsewhere, but they are never backed with any kind of scientific proof or even speculation from any particle physicist.

Please also explain to me how earth "evolves" and vibrates differently. I simply see no basis for these statements. These ideas are as new age as the new age people you are trying to distance yourself from. Any links or reading material you can provide me to back up these veiws would be helpful.

Hello, iam sort of open-heart person so explanation is not my best point,
but if we agree that all is made of strings (string theory) which is core of everything, than the vibration comes as best variable diferencing all the states of existance. And its quite usual movement of the string after all, isnt it?
And if all is one, than it can be "One on all levels, everytime everywhere" trough vibration.
Or if all started from one, then its again something that started to move to vibrate .. and it may stop for short moment.. come to one again.
Thats why i think fractal like timewave zero can work.. "magic" can work, psychokinesis can work..
ahhh sry just words ... i am not sure if one is able to understand time, universe and aliens at all..
so thats why its less important for me recently..

Originally posted by BardoPhoenix
A wonderful, well thought out ideal. I am not a religious person but I have read a lot of religious texts and books from around the world. In all of them there is a resounding truth. That "God" is within you. With the concept of the soul being connection to said source. Personally, I believe in the genetic engineering theory but that's a separate subject. ALL of the Godly figures spoke of divinity in cryptic ways. Jesus said God is love(compassion). You spoke of considering others in the process of making our own world. So, I would like to propose a question. What is the concept of divinity? Some would claim that it has "magical" tendencies. But I think it goes hand in hand with what your post was about. We as a global community have strayed from our spiritual roots and fled to a world of material/superficial selfish desires. "To get a foot ahead of our brothers."

Anyways, Kudos to you. Thank you for taking the time to write all of it.

good thnking... nice.
I agree with U, GOD is in you like is in me....that i discovered by my own...i think all of us have to do that, to understand... i don't know if we all can do that, but i think it's possible.

Originally posted by ElevenFlint

All the people who agreed with me on this thread didn’t do so because they believe me, but because they know what I am talking about from their own experience. All I try to do is point your attention to yourself (which was obviously the most difficult to understand) and your own life and future as a part of the whole.

PERFECT! Couldn't say better

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by ElevenFlint

 

Because I am born with the knowledge that Earth is a living thing and have always seen it that way.

One of the reasons you give for believing in Keisha Crowthers is that you think the Earth is alive? Why would anyone think that the Earth is alive?

How do you know / "prove" that she isn't?

reply to post by stereologist


After having time to read through the thread I see it's clear nothing I could say will ever get through to you so I'm not quite sure why I'm wasting my time lol, but I'll respond one more time.

It's always best to ask for evidence since it is the starting point. Evidence can be accumulated into proof.

Yes awesome I agree with you 100%, BUT, not in this thread, that's the whole point. The OP is just sharing their thoughts and view point on the world and your supposed to take it for what its worth and move on, it's not like the OP is submitting a scientific theory that needs peer review or that he's trying to gain followers and trick people for profit.

Not to mention, like I said before but which of course you ignored, you know very well, in fact I know you are 100% certain the OP doesn't have a scrap of "strong" evidence to back up what he's saying, so why are you here wasting your time(no I mean it, honestly ask yourself) when you know there is none?

I have already provided a list of counterexamples. Look down you copied it. You do realize that your ludicrous commentary is unwarranted (and makes no sense either).

Yeah I saw the list that's why I copied it because it supports my argument, nothing in that list proves or even suggests that our bodies are not encoded with truth; and what exactly is ludicrous and unwarranted about my "commentary"(e.i. my thought and view point)?? Because you don't like it? Really, explain, and please point out which part didn't make sense.

Typical failure response; move the goal posts.

Actually no, I didn't move the goal posts, your simply shooting at the wrong net my friend.

No. Ignorant are those that take these tales of baloney and latch onto them without thinking. That is ignorance.

Yes you are right, people who latch onto this without thinking is ignorance, but sorry just because you write "No." doesn't mean that you are not being ignorant for assuming people are not thinking about the OP because they haven't come to the same conclusion as you.

Actually use the brain. You'll surprise yourself with the quality of your posts.

Really again with this? I feel like I'm talking to Cleverbot....

The truth is that everyday something happens and is significant to defining what comes ahead. Today's future is not tomorrow's future, because tomorrow something may happen that changes the current track of things. So don't laugh and call names to those who make predictions that don't come true eventually, but first try to understand the nature of time and how things happen to be. Instead of predictions being just 'wrong' we may have shifted tracks in the process.

reply to post by ElevenFlint


This makes absolutely no sense.

Tomorrow is today's future. Because whatever happens tomorrow is then a product of the past, in future sense, which is today. So, I may likely scoff at ridiculous predictions of the world ending every other week.

imagination

1.the ability to form pictures or ideas in your mind
2. something, that is caused only by your mind, and does not really exist or did not really happen

The second definition is what made me say last time that I am not exactly trying to say, that we should just use our imagination. Because when most people hear "imagination" they instantly think it's about non-existing stuff. While the first one is crucial to understand the situation we are in.

This is actually a problem of semiotics, when symbols (representative of reality) are mistaken for reality itself. Words are only symbols, but the meaning they hold we usually mistake with the real thing they represent. The second definition of "imagination" implies that things caused by our mind are not actually real, which is something we can't be sure of, because (beware, proof-lovers!) we have no proof of that (try to find me one, you're welcome). So, we mistake the popular concept of the word with the real thing called "imagination", thus ignoring its actual attributes, in the case - it's ability to cause "real" things. This huge mistake is actually very common in everyday life and is one of the most significant reasons why is so hard for us to "get out of the box". Belief-systems, such as religion and science, are also symbols we have agreed to represent reality - orientation maps of systematized knowledge. If a place has not been marked on a map does this mean it doesn't exist?

In fact all breakthroughs is science are made of people using the tool of imagination. Here is a video called Dimensions (they are several short videos, so don't stop watching when the first one ends), which is made by mathematicians, who suggest you use your imagination so you can understand the 4th dimension, which is very well proven to be real. Their approach to explaining it is very appropriate, starting with explanation of 3D to 2D creatures.

More on dimensions: Imagining the Tenth Dimension

About string theory - check out Nassim Haramein and his Unified Field theory. His words are very well proven by his scientific paper "The Scharzchild Proton", which has been awarded at the CASYS '09 conference in Belgium. Here you can watch all his videos, I recommend Crossong the Event Horizon to all interested in the matter, as well as to those who think this is "just some theories".

Science is actually one. Physics, astronomy, biology, chemistry - they are not isolated, but very much interconnected. You can see the same patterns all over.



What do you see here? I see mathematics. Very sophisticated mathematics. All nature is constructed in this extremely intelligent manner. Just google Fibonacci and Golden ratio. Do your own research. Connect the dots.

reply to post by ElevenFlint


Hi Eleven,
First of all, read my post a second time and you will realise that I was not saying only use your imagination, just that imagination can be more useful than knowledge. Just wanted to clear you on that

Secondly, I wholeheartedly agree with you about knowledge of the heart, meditation is the key to the door of the soul. Buddhist's have always known this, and have led the way in real Spiritualism.

Thirdly, Birth and Death are the only absolutes, in this life anyway

Originally posted by nightbringr

Please also explain to me how earth "evolves" and vibrates differently. I simply see no basis for these statements. These ideas are as new age as the new age people you are trying to distance yourself from. Any links or reading material you can provide me to back up these veiws would be helpful.

edit on 13-10-2011 by nightbringr because: (no reason given)

Sounds like you're trying to believe.

Instead post links that prove his words incorrect.

reply to post by Dionisius


I understood what you're saying at first reading. But I wanted to be more specific, because I'm afraid that when people hear "imagination" they get totally uninterested, because that doesn't sound seriously to them. Otherwise, I totally agree with you Thank you for pointing that out.

About the absolute - I just wanted to add another dimension to this concept. Yes, they are "absolutes in this life" in some way, but yet the word "absolute" suggests some omnipotence that makes it inappropriate for particular cases. What's more, there may be more to birth and death even only in "this life" that we don't know yet, that could shatter the absolute concept. Don't forget what we know about them is just a concept, therefore cannot be absolute. Again problem of semiotics.

I had a message coming from within that its time to choose, within to envision the world we wish, the eutopia we will journey to, these steps begin here. Yeshua said that in his Fathers heaven there were many dwellings. Infinite frequencies, levels and grades exist. What kind of love, equality and world are we yearning for?

So we need money? Laws or virtues (common law)? Collectivity and freedom, so no one is left out, and all have rights to land, resources and food? Do we desire an upgraded equal world without pryamids? What is paradise?

Because we're here to choose our next steps, becoming.

Originally posted by Mizzijr

Originally posted by nightbringr

Please also explain to me how earth "evolves" and vibrates differently. I simply see no basis for these statements. These ideas are as new age as the new age people you are trying to distance yourself from. Any links or reading material you can provide me to back up these veiws would be helpful.

Sounds like you're trying to believe.

Instead post links that prove his words incorrect.

Er, not really sure why or how i could do that.

Since the "earth vibrating" theory isnt based in science, there is no material refuting it that i can find. Why disprove something that isnt first proven in the first place? The onus is on him to provide proof of what he is talking about.

After much googling "earth vibrating", and similar stuff, nothing but new age hogwash comes up. Nothing based in science at all.

reply to post by ElevenFlint


While i agree with your general philosophy that the future is IN OUR OWN HANDS (and not determined by some silly comet etc)...i need to add where i do not agree:

*) I do not think that the people are "demonstrating because of a shifted consciousness" - in fact the people are demonstrating "simply" because of MATERIALISM, because they feel poor and repressed and want MORE MONEY.

I know this sounds extremely simplified, but at the end this is what it is: Those demonstrations are because of MONEY...and not because of a "higher consciousness shift" as you propose.

Originally posted by nightbringr

Since the "earth vibrating" theory isnt based in science, there is no material refuting it that i can find. Why disprove something that isnt first proven in the first place? The onus is on him to provide proof of what he is talking about.

After much googling "earth vibrating", and similar stuff, nothing but new age hogwash comes up. Nothing based in science at all.

I told you, mate, but it seems you don't read my posts. I gave you some links, did you check them out? I guess no.
Here is the site of scientist Nassim Haramein - The Resonance Project and in one of my previous posts i provided a link where you can watch all his videos online. Watch "The Power of Spin" and "Crossing the Event Horizon" and then we can talk again. It's not only him, many scientists agree on that.

Originally posted by flexy123
reply to post by ElevenFlint

 

*) I do not think that the people are "demonstrating because of a shifted consciousness" - in fact the people are demonstrating "simply" because of MATERIALISM, because they feel poor and repressed and want MORE MONEY.

I know this sounds extremely simplified, but at the end this is what it is: Those demonstrations are because of MONEY...and not because of a "higher consciousness shift" as you propose.

How do you know that? How do you know there is not something more happening in a bigger picture than this one we can encompass with our vision? How do you know what is going on is not the result of something happening beyond our understanding? And what I am saying is not complicated at all - it's just as simple - cause and effect.

People are used to explaining everything according to what they know and what their worldview is - it's just normal, they can't go beyond their mindset just like that. Back in the days when people were far more religious they used to explain natural disasters with "God's wrath". Now when the western worldview is more materialistic, normally people would explain events with material reasons. But people ain't protesting because they are greedy, but because they have been exploited and lied to all the time and now they've had enough.

reply to post by Dionisius

Good luck with your whole, deny everything, continue to be ignorant approach. Try to open your mind a bit, you dont need evidence for everything, a little bit of imagination and thinking for yourself is key. Remember, Science is and always will be 99%. I wonder whats going on with that other 1%?

Remember what Einstein said, "Imagination is more important than knowledge". It has been a very valuable lesson in my life, use it.

Ignorance is blinding believing in every bit of nonsense that comes your way. Being able to discriminate is important. An open mind is not a trash can open to all of the ridiculous stories being tossed around.

You appear to be misrepresenting Einstein.