It's on! Choose your future now!

reply to post by InnerPeace2012

It is apparent to me you fall short of providing proper reasoning and explanation as to why you label this as apparent excuses, which all the more strengthens my point of the argument.

Now you are using the logical fallacy of arguing from ignorance.

That is you argument has no substance and is an indirect "attack" by nitpicking weak points that fail to address the entirety of what the OP is saying.

You think challenging the bulk of the OP is nitpicking? How odd. On second thought that is the norm for you.

Your excuses for the failure of prophecies are laughable. Claiming that the future is changing and that is why the prophecy failed is a ludicrous excuse. It's just laughable and your subsequent excuses are dismal efforts to save a dead horse.

Wow - it`s mind blowing to see all these negative comments. This was an inspirational post for people who think this way to begin with. If you don`t believe in this kind of stuff, why bother reading OR posting negative comments. There`s no onus on the OP to `prove` any of this to anyone. But I will say that AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN, `pragmatic` individuals and scientists throughout history have been consistently slowed down by their own inability to think outside of the box or to even as much as explore any possibility that reality is composed of anything more than what they already say it is. You think they would have learned by now.

reply to post by stereologist


Good luck with your whole, deny everything, continue to be ignorant approach. Try to open your mind a bit, you dont need evidence for everything, a little bit of imagination and thinking for yourself is key. Remember, Science is and always will be 99%. I wonder whats going on with that other 1%?

Remember what Einstein said, "Imagination is more important than knowledge". It has been a very valuable lesson in my life, use it.

Originally posted by thebtheb
Wow - it`s mind blowing to see all these negative comments. This was an inspirational post for people who think this way to begin with. If you don`t believe in this kind of stuff, why bother reading OR posting negative comments.

I dont try and post negative comments, but i can understand how they might look that way. Believe it or not, i am very interested in this kind of thing and have done more experimentation and reading on this than many others. However, i have yet to have a "eureka!" moment. I certainly thought i had in the past while "experimenting", but i have since come to the conclusion all these experiements do is unleash our inner mind, with no effect on what is happening in the outer (real) world.

Originally posted by thebtheb
There`s no onus on the OP to `prove` any of this to anyone.

True, but he should not shy away from confronting honest questions. Avoiding non-confrontational questions tends to push people on the fence away. Why not try and honestly answer to the best of your ability. Explain what you feel and why and try and bring others into the fold. I agree some are simply here to put down the OP, but some of us honestly want to try and understand and bring deeper meaning into our lives.

Originally posted by thebtheb
But I will say that AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN, `pragmatic` individuals and scientists throughout history have been consistently slowed down by their own inability to think outside of the box or to even as much as explore any possibility that reality is composed of anything more than what they already say it is. You think they would have learned by now.

Yes, but on the other side of the coin, and scientist will tell you that a theory is only a theory until it is proven. Thinking outside the box is how new theories are formulated, scientific experimentation and process is how they are proven and come into use. String theory, or its offshoot multiverse theory is all based on theory, hence the name. Many here seem to cling to these things as being the reason why there is "more out there" than we can see or interact with. I find it facinating that string theory posits that there may be 10 spacial dimensions, but it is a theory and cannot be used to further the new age philosophy of ascensionism any more than saying that Jesus is the son of god simply because it is written in a book.

How does anything get done in our world? First someone has to imagine it before anyone can study it to gain knowledge.

If we knew how to do something to begin with it would be a very borning world. Your power flows where the mind goes.

Peace to all.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by InnerPeace2012

 

It is apparent to me you fall short of providing proper reasoning and explanation as to why you label this as apparent excuses, which all the more strengthens my point of the argument.

Now you are using the logical fallacy of arguing from ignorance.

And what am I ignoring, I only pointed out your lack of reasoning behind what I proposed. That being the point of shifting realities base on the multiverse theory or parallel Universe theory.

You think challenging the bulk of the OP is nitpicking? How odd. On second thought that is the norm for you.

I'm just giving you a taste of your own medicine my friend, it is not my nature to do such a thing. I am merely proving a point that not all is hocus pocus just because you can't get any reasoning behind what has been shared.

Rather then taking it for just food for thought, you have taken it upon yourself to invalidate the OP with your demand for evidence of which you and I know does not exist.

If anything this is just food for thought.

Your excuses for the failure of prophecies are laughable. Claiming that the future is changing and that is why the prophecy failed is a ludicrous excuse. It's just laughable and your subsequent excuses are dismal efforts to save a dead horse.

And these are not even my excuse for a failure of prophecies, and I'm but looking at this as a possibility from the context of the multiverse theory of which you failed to provide any true reasoning to allow further discussions.

Hence I rest my case.

Peace out

this is good place to make friends

Thank you, everyone, for your participation on this thread. Every post is strongly appreciated. I am so glad to see so many people understanding what I am talking about. Even the opposing posts are welcome. The interest to this thread way exceeds my expectations – this could only back up my words.

I want to explain the purpose of the OP, especially to those who “don’t believe” what I am saying.

I am not and would never ask you to believe me or anyone else. All I am talking about is there for you to explore by yourself. This is very clearly said in the OP, but some of you chose to ignore it. It is not about “believing”, because this is not something external to you, which has to be “proven” for you to believe in. Nothing has to be proven for you to believe in, yet this is the only known way used by most people to accept information and consider it true. This is because you have been disconnected with your inner sense of rightfulness. “Proof” is actually a false way to make you believe in something, conveniently replacing your natural way to know. Proofs can be and usually are fabricated. Those, who have been exploring philosophy, know about schools that have been developing the art of speech and argument to a degree where anybody could be convinced of anything (this is how the profession of lawyers came to be). Your mind – your only known tool for discerning information has been programmed for a long time. When a certain belief-system is installed, anything that is true according to it can easily be proven. To reach full understanding of this you first have to understand that you mind is working like a computer. Many have explored the way the mind and the brain work – there are vast amounts of books on this subject. Most of them originate from work done by the governments, because they are who exploited this field the most. Projects like “Monarch” and “MKUltra” are not secret anymore. Subliminal messaging, creating archetypes and then connecting with them to create reasoning are just some of the many techniques used in our everyday life. A perfect example for this is advertising – it makes you buy stuff that you don’t really need and aren’t good for you in any way. But it’s just a small part of the big mind control machine – governments make you pay taxes by making you believe it’s for your own good.

Popular science is another belief-system used to control what is true for you. Most of the “facts” there are validated only by the regarding system itself. This is the modern day religion – most of its existence in reality is not better proven than god’s – yet most of you believe in it without question (see the article in the end).

I am not a hippie, neither am I “a spiritual person”. Such claims for me could only originate from thinking defined by stereotypes and preconceptions. I don’t follow any religion, even less any New Age or whatever spiritual movement. I have no “gurus”, neither want to have any followers or gather people with the same worldview. Same as some posters here, I have gone through many different stages including strong skepticism, until I realized that everyone is free to believe in whatever they want and this is mainly what defines their reality.

All the people who agreed with me on this thread didn’t do so because they believe me, but because they know what I am talking about from their own experience. All I try to do is point your attention to yourself (which was obviously the most difficult to understand) and your own life and future as a part of the whole.

I don’t know who Keisha Crowther is. I posted her video because she, as the other woman, inspired me to write the OP. And what’s more – I don’t care, because I don’t believe her, I know from my own experience what she is talking about. “Debunking” her doesn’t work for me, because it’s not about her persona, it works for people who need “ an authority” to accept any information – a “credible” source. This is the way we have been taught, because to make a source “credible” and then spread information through it is the easiest way of mind control. Keisha Crowther is not a fraud to me, because she hasn’t asked me to do anything, neither to give her money in any way. All she asks is to live from the heart – something which I have started doing long before I saw her speaking some days ago. Because I am born with the knowledge that Earth is a living thing and have always seen it that way. There is no “mystery” to this fact.

“Debunking” reminds me of Inquisition’s trials and putting people on fire for saying that Earth is round and other natural (rather than mysterious) truths. If I was still emotionally attached I would say it’s plainly pathetic.
Here is an excellent article on the topic:
Skeptics & Debunkers

Skepticism is just another form of religious fanaticism — a rejection of anything that threatens established orthodox belief systems. Skeptics are individuals intolerant of new perspectives, and therefore enemies of progress and discovery.

reply to post by thebtheb

individuals and scientists throughout history have been consistently slowed down by their own inability to think outside of the box or to even as much as explore any possibility that reality is composed of anything more than what they already say it is. You think they would have learned by now.

That is really funny. The people that actually do think outside of the box don't? You think that speculating about obviously wrong ideas is thinking outside of the box? All I see in your post is a misunderstanding of thinking outside of the box.

reply to post by Dionisius

Good luck with your whole, deny everything, continue to be ignorant approach. Try to open your mind a bit, you dont need evidence for everything, a little bit of imagination and thinking for yourself is key. Remember, Science is and always will be 99%. I wonder whats going on with that other 1%?

Remember what Einstein said, "Imagination is more important than knowledge". It has been a very valuable lesson in my life, use it.

It's a typical mistake by folks like yourself that think accepting every nitwit story is somehow being an open mind. It's not. What you do is shut out the evidence that reveals the failures of some ideas. That is being close minded. You are being close minded by not using your ability to think and to check whether or not an idea is plausible.

You are also quite wrong that I or anyone else denies everything. You also label it the ignorant approach. The ignorant are those that take every dimwit story without any thought as to whether or not the story makes sense.

Finally you misrepresent what Einstein stated. Einstein was certainly not suggesting discarding what is already known. He is not suggesting discriminating new ideas. If this quote is a valuable lesson in your life, then at least learn what Einstein was talking about.

reply to post by InnerPeace2012

And what am I ignoring, I only pointed out your lack of reasoning behind what I proposed. That being the point of shifting realities base on the multiverse theory or parallel Universe theory.

The excuse that prophecy failures is due to a changing future is laughable.

And these are not even my excuse for a failure of prophecies, and I'm but looking at this as a possibility from the context of the multiverse theory of which you failed to provide any true reasoning to allow further discussions.

Still trying to save a dead horse.

reply to post by ElevenFlint

Because I am born with the knowledge that Earth is a living thing and have always seen it that way.

One of the reasons you give for believing in Keisha Crowthers is that you think the Earth is alive? Why would anyone think that the Earth is alive? The total biological mass is small and exists near the surface.

The link you provided is to someone that doesn't understand the difference between being a skeptic and being a scoffer. We can readily see that in the first paragraph.

Skepticism is just another form of religious fanaticism — a rejection of anything that threatens established orthodox belief systems. Skeptics are individuals intolerant of new perspectives, and therefore enemies of progress and discovery.

The rube who wrote the article doesn't understand how science works. The article does not describe how science describes its limitations. He misrepresents the science method its development into the current method employed today. The author pretends that these ideas of his are somehow not noticed by scientists that have perfected the method and discussed the method for centuries.

They go on to claim that Shermer wants psi to go away.

This may be true for some PSI research, but certainly not all, and is no doubt wishful thinking on Shermer's part, hoping that PSI will simply go away.

There is first the claim that there is some valid psi research and then suggests that Shermer is a scoffer and not a skeptic.

The author discusses 5 reasons for rejecting Shermer as Shermer gives 5 reasons for rejecting Bem.
1. The author does not point out that better experiments make psi disappear while good experiments continue to show results.
2. The author tries to misrepresent the situation by claiming that not understanding a process implies paranormal issues.
3. Paranormal effects being fleeting at best have never been shown to be anything else. The comparison to quantum effects is ridiculous since quantum effects were observed and written about by 1905 - very early on in the study of that field. After decades there is still nothing from psi research.
4. The results are inconsistent. The author thinks that is what psi should show. They go on to argue excuses instead of realizing that we are back to step where tightening the experiments up makes the effect go away.
5. Then tightening up experiments is the subject of 5 where Shermer points out the experimental inconsistencies.

When all is written in that blog the author still hasn't figured out he is describing scoffing, not skepticism.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by Manula

 

Mostly right. Some people do not try to feel good, but most do.

You point is what? The issue is whether or not you can feel the truth. I say no. The problem is that feeling good may or may not lead to truth. When the goal is emotional the goal is not truth.

My point is that the truth is a tool to happiness and nothing else.
What you want is not the truth in itself, you want to feel good, to be happy is to feel good, all the things we do have that goal, so the bottom line is: you want to feel good, that's the meaning of life.
You believe the truth will make you feel good, that's why you pursue it.

stereologist, your work starts smelling really fishy... One might wonder why are you so vigorously responding in a thread, which is obviously total nonsense to you. And the time that you are spending on this... What are you getting out of this? Maybe you know very well that by doing so, you will put down those who are really interested in the thread? Go on, you are not bothering me. I strongly doubt you are a professional, because you're too inconsistent and full of logical fallacies and an artisan argumentative could easily smash you. Even I could do that and show that all that you're doing is twisting my and others' statements and making false assumptions of them in order to lead the thread astray. But I don't have the time to do this, neither the will for such a waste. And guess what - this is not an excuse, but a plain fact. I am doing many other things as well, something that is obviously not true about you (maybe ATS is somehow connected with your work?) and I will use the time that I have here to respond to people, who really want to learn something from this thread. nightbringr is also opposing many of the ideas shared here, but he asks genuine questions and I respect his willingness to get into the matter and will try my best to respond to his questions as time allows.

Just some example of your logical fallacies:
- My statement for prophecies was not an excuse, but a possibility - something that you would never consider. What's more - nowhere I say that it refers to all prophecies being made everywhere.
- Nowhere I state that I believe Kiesha Crowther - just on the contrary. Also I said that I don't care about her persona, but you continue barking on that tree (typical for your type). What's important for me is her core message - living from the hearth - something that I know from my own experience.
- Nothing more than plain controversy are your statements about proving everything you accept as true, because you use unproven "facts" as arguments, e.g. "Kiesha Crowther is not a shaman" (have you spoken with the tribe, that initiated her?), "she is a succubus" (?!? ) and so on
- You said something about feelings could be tricked and also senses, if I'm not mistaken... Very true! Brains could be as well. And that applies to you too. So you are just digging your pitfall.

Congratulations, you leeched more time and energy from me than I ever thought I would spend on this!

Originally posted by ElevenFlint

Skepticism is just another form of religious fanaticism — a rejection of anything that threatens established orthodox belief systems. Skeptics are individuals intolerant of new perspectives, and therefore enemies of progress and discovery.

This, I assume, is someone's belief. The true definition of skepticism:

Skepticism (or scepticism) has many definitions, but generally refers to any questioning attitude of knowledge, facts, or opinions/beliefs stated as facts,[1] or doubt regarding claims that are taken for granted elsewhere.[2] The word may characterise a position on a single matter, as in the case of religious skepticism, which is "doubt concerning basic religious principles (such as immortality, providence, and revelation)",[3] but philosophical skepticism is an overall approach that requires all new information to be well supported by evidence.[4] Skeptics may even doubt the reliability of their own senses.[5] Classical philosophical skepticism derives from the 'Skeptikoi', a school who "asserted nothing".[6] Adherents of Pyrrhonism, for instance, suspend judgment in investigations.[7]

Source

Skeptics do not reject anything/everything that "threatens established orthodox belief systems". We are not "individuals intolerant of new perspectives, and therefore enemies of progress and discovery". If anything I would say that skeptics help to drive progress and discovery. Skeptics are the individuals that raise the tough questions. It is simply because we have a doubt and would like clarification. It does not mean that we are closed-minded. Skeptics are the people that say, "Well if the world is round, then why when I look upon the horizon can I see the edge of the earth as opposed to a curve. Why is it flat all the way to the horizon?" This is a relatively innocent and logical question (to someone who does not know the answer and has a long held belief hammered into their head).

People do not like criticsm. But people are flawed, we are not perfect. As a result, we have to embrace criticsm and be prepared to defend or change our stance. When someone makes a claim, their claim is processed and compared to what we (believe to) know as well as what can be proven.

Skepticsm is doubt, plain and simple. But doubt can be changed to disbelief or belief. Even still, disbelief or belief can be changed again to their opposites or become netruel (a skeptic) once again. It's called free will. It's called progress. It's called learning.

-saige-

reply to post by ElevenFlint


You post several ideas, none of which are even close, and then you suggest that somebody can come along and best me. Then you claim that you could do it, but all you can do is nothing. Instead of showing something substantial or defending your claims where I have challenged it you do nothing.

You point out that others also doubt your claims.

Your excuse concerning the failure of prophecies is just an excuse. It sounds like the sheep goat effect which is an excuse as to why psi research shows nothing is happening.

I love being labeled in the phrase "typical for your type". Crowthers core message is fraud. She's not who she says she is. Her message isn't unique. It is meant to separate the gullible from their earnings. Look around. There are others that are honest with the same message.

"Kiesha Crowther is not a shaman" (have you spoken with the tribe, that initiated her?)

I posted a link to the newspaper from the Navajo Nation that calls here a sham. Bet you didn't bother to read it. A closed mind would have skipped over the article. Did you skip over the article? It sure sounds like you did.

Native Americans are deeply offended by these frauds using their name and claims to their backing. She claims to be spreading Native lore. In fact she has claimed that pole shifts are an Indian belief. She claims that the Hawaiians are from Sumer. She claims to be helping Natives. Really? Who and how? Other frauds include John Kimney, Adam DeArmon, Lynn Andrews, etc. She is recognized by the "Continental Council of Indigenous Elders" a sham organization created by DeArmon. She claims to have been recognized as a shaman by Lakha Lama from the village of Makram, Tibet. The guy has been in Sweden since the time Keisha was born.

Check out the magnitude of the problem caused by frauds spreading disinfo and causing cultural destruction.
Exposing the Fake Medicine Men and Women
These frauds make threats to the tribes when threatened with exposure as the frauds they are.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by Dionisius

 

Good luck with your whole, deny everything, continue to be ignorant approach. Try to open your mind a bit, you dont need evidence for everything, a little bit of imagination and thinking for yourself is key. Remember, Science is and always will be 99%. I wonder whats going on with that other 1%?

Remember what Einstein said, "Imagination is more important than knowledge". It has been a very valuable lesson in my life, use it.

It's a typical mistake by folks like yourself that think accepting every nitwit story is somehow being an open mind. It's not. What you do is shut out the evidence that reveals the failures of some ideas. That is being close minded. You are being close minded by not using your ability to think and to check whether or not an idea is plausible.

You are also quite wrong that I or anyone else denies everything. You also label it the ignorant approach. The ignorant are those that take every dimwit story without any thought as to whether or not the story makes sense.

Finally you misrepresent what Einstein stated. Einstein was certainly not suggesting discarding what is already known. He is not suggesting discriminating new ideas. If this quote is a valuable lesson in your life, then at least learn what Einstein was talking about.

First of all, I do not 'accept every nitwit story', I simply have a very similar view on life to the OP along with other like minded members. You do not know me so do not judge me so strongly, yes I know I judged you beforehand but that was through impatience and being exhausted so I apologise for that.

Again through exhaustion I did not explain myself properly, I mean that you will deny anything without a 'logical' and thorough explanation or solid 100% proof. I agree it is not a necessarily a bad way to be but it is 'close minded'.

Yet again you are not thinking for yourself and putting my post out of context, He was saying that we should not always depend 100% on knowledge and should try to use our imagination instead of only using previous knowledge or facts. After all, everything we know throughout history has always been proven to be different through people using their imagination. Apart from death of course, everyone dies. That is the only absolute in life

Here are some answers to your questions, nightbringr, in the way I see things:

Hippies

Originally posted by nightbringr
How do you think the hippies felt as they sat in silicon valley making their computers? Do you think they felt like it was a spirtual mission? Do you think they felt they had accomplished their mission of peace and love when it first computed 1+1=2?

No, I guess they didn’t feel good at all, despite all the fun they usually used to have, because they were the first of the new consciousness in a far more closed-minded world than today. But I don’t see how this makes them or their ideas not genuine or useless. They weren’t supposed to manifest their visions back then, it was plainly impossible – the battle was way uneven and it was simply not the right time. But they were to plant the seeds of the new consciousness and that was exactly what they did – they laid the basis of the modern thinking and most of their concepts that seemed ridiculous to people then we take for granted today. Interestingly how the birth of the hippie movement coincides the birth of the new consciousness on Earth according the Mayan calendar. For more information on the calendar (which has nothing to do with a calendar in fact, but is a tool for measuring the energies effecting Earth) with exact periods you can research Ian Xel Lungold’s work (there are videos around the net and threads here on ATS) also visit this site. There is also a wonderful thread by sir_slide.

New Age religion

New Age religion is all about “enlightened” gurus and blind followers seeking Enlightenment on the other side. Since the hippies came to existence, the span of awaking was ever more growing. More and more people began realizing the fallacy of religion. The elite had to respond to that to maintain the control and that’s how the first New Age movements came to be – they were meant to trap the “deserters” and bring them back in a closed state of mind. What the New Age movements did is to take the core message of the hippies and mix it with a lot of disinfo and lies about Enlightenment , that’s why they resemble orthodox religions so much – because they are practically one and the same thing, originating from one and the same source. From then on the movements took a life on their own, their egregore grew faster and faster along with an excellent enviroment for self-proclaimed gurus to sprout, conveniently discrediting the main point of the original message.

I beg to differ greatly from all New Age and whatever movements, as I said many times earlier, simply because I don’t follow anyone, what’s left for do it blindly, neither have I suggested anywhere in my posts to anyone to do this, just on the contrary (as I said many times before). This is made very clear also in my other thread To All Truth Seekers.

These are excellent articles, which I strongly agree with, on the matter of New Age movements and their “spiritual materialism” (the way they replace material goals with the pursuit of spiritual Enlightenment, which is principally the same thing):
Spiritual Philosophy vs. Spiritual Practice
From Creating Our Reality to Authentic Spiritual Awakening
Spiritual Marketing Techniques

I’ll end this post with an answer to your question “What does “ascention” really means?” and leave the rest for later.

The so called “ascension” is actually a natural way of evolution. There is no mystery to it all. It’s as mysterious as the people outgrowing their need of fur or tails. Noone will be “magically plucked up and moved to a better world”. There’s no reason for this. If you have a terrible performance at school and don’t pass your exams do they “magically” make you graduate? You move forward when you are ready with all the work you have to do. To understand how this works you have to understand that this is not about a lifetime and there is much more to life than the things that we see. Everything vibrates at a certain frequency – this is even a popular science today – the atom is such a solid structure because it spins very fast. As the Earth evolves it begins to vibrate on higher frequencies. This is a simple natural process and there is nothing “magical” or “mysterious” about it. Because there is such thing as resonance (as stereologist pointed out, sadly he is too ignorant on the matter), which is a natural law what states that things of the same or close frequencies are pulled together and those of different frequencies are pulled apart, if people remain vibrating too low their existence on Earth will be no more. (continues)

Differently from animals, which are part of the entity of Earth and thus share its will, people are entities possessing their own free will. People also are a part of the Earth, but a more authonomic one, because they have a sense of “I” – the so called “ego”, which animals do not, so they cannot be forced to evolve along with Earth if they do not consciously wish so.

So noone becomes “suddenly enlightened”. Of course not. Well, there are cases when this occurs but its only in extreme conditions, when one faces their own death (this is only the means by which it happens), but there has to be other reasons for that. You don’t just get enlightened from nothing because “it’s the time”.
I guess it’s enough for now for you to consider. I am saying for a hundred time maybe – do not just believe me, make your own researches, get what resonates to you and leave the rest. For your life true will be what you wish to be true – but make a clear difference between wish made of consciousness and wish made of ego. The latter just doesn’t work. That’s why eventually you can’t win the lottery.

[

Yes, but on the other side of the coin, and scientist will tell you that a theory is only a theory until it is proven. Thinking outside the box is how new theories are formulated, scientific experimentation and process is how they are proven and come into use. String theory, or its offshoot multiverse theory is all based on theory, hence the name. Many here seem to cling to these things as being the reason why there is "more out there" than we can see or interact with. I find it facinating that string theory posits that there may be 10 spacial dimensions, but it is a theory and cannot be used to further the new age philosophy of ascensionism any more than saying that Jesus is the son of god simply because it is written in a book.


I think some of these theories will never be proven by current scientific methods because some of the things they posit simply aren't measurable. If someone leaves their body, there's no way to measure what that person perceives or experiences during this time. But what that person does experience is no less important in the full understanding of something IMO. But science usually automatically relegates it to the trash heap if it can't be touched, held and measured. I can definitely say that a lot of my beliefs about the nature of reality have been gleaned from my own experience, and I'm not waiting around for a thumbs up or thumbs down from science.