For Those Who Don't "Get" OWS. This Explains It...

Originally posted by ldyserenity

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Cuervo

 

And there is the point.
If the OWS crowd was in DC protesting the weasel politicians that WROTE the laws, the Tea Party, would be standing with them.
This crowd is protesting the headache that a tumour caused.

I protest the tumour.

I'd like to give you a big ol' Georgia kiss! Exactly right, friend.

Wall st. pays those politicians to make the laws that benefit them, they are the puppet masters, why would we go to the puppets first? Logically it makes sense to go to their masters, does it not?

No matter what their "masters" say, the people STILL have the power to VOTE. If we could rally together, we could VOTE those politicians out.

We DO have power here.

reply to post by radosta


No offense but I think that i'ts you that are confused. Larger social programs actually cost LESS than the way our country is being run right now....Let's take Healthcare, for instance..
" Americans spend considerably more money on health care services than any other industrialized nation - but the increased expenditure does not buy more care. According to the study, U.S. per capita health spending rose to $4,631 in 2000, which was an increase of 6.3 percent over the previous year. The U.S. level was 83 percent higher than Canada and 134 percent higher than the median of $1,983 in the other OECD member nations. They found that in 2000, the United States spent 44 percent more on health care than Switzerland, the nation with the next highest per capita health care costs." Source

And just to be clear..we spend more on Healthcare, yet most of these other industrialized countries provide FREE , (or nearly free) Healthcare for everyone....can't you see there's something wrong with imagining social programs will cost us more money? The numbers simply don't add up to support that hypothesis. Not to mention a healthier nation means a stronger nation, that can work harder.

Originally posted by Cuervo
Alan Grayson explains the anger and why people are protesting. There doesn't need to be a specific thesis for a person to understand why we need to protest.

the truth being told @ bill maher show? grow up. lol.

Originally posted by Rockdisjoint
How did wall street ruin our economy?

& what crimes did they commit?

edit on 9-10-2011 by Rockdisjoint because: (no reason given)

seriously?

Originally posted by GeorgiaGirl
No matter what their "masters" say, the people STILL have the power to VOTE. If we could rally together, we could VOTE those politicians out.

We DO have power here.

I wonder how many of the people that are protesting now bothered to vote in the 2010 mid-term elections?

reply to post by GeorgiaGirl


So then the wall st lobbyists aren't treasoness, or they're not worth having to face justice for their part? So we just vote politicians that are hand picked by them into office...you didn't know the electoral college picks the nominees? Not US citizens? Look up electoral college online and then look at who these people are individually. Yep they are likely bankers and wall st executives (or ex both).

Originally posted by pngxp

Originally posted by radosta
I understand that people are angry and resentful, but why become a tool of your own enslavement by joining some manipulated movement? I've seen video after video, not MSM - but OWSers' own videos promoting themselves, that make them look plain goofy and obviously ignorant of how the system works.
"We want massive government spending on social programs but we want an end to debt!" - waitaminute - these people have no concept that their demands can only be paid for through deficit spending and continued domination by banks. Make up your mind. Do you want to depower the banks? Fine, that means the federal government must be massively shrunk and an end to deficit spending and Keynesianism. It means you have to rely on yourself, not the government.

The protests are just a bunch of people showing how ignorant and easily manipulated they are.

Abraham Lincoln has advice for you people: "It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

"They" are not scared. They are laughing at you. Their system will probably collapse but it has nothing to do with protests. It will be because of their own hubris and incompetence. Then those that rebuild will be people with intelligence and ability who very likely have nothing to do with these clown festivals that will only serve as talking points for pundits and politicians.

beautifully said.

and while alan does make a very clear, and concise speech about what they are pissed about. it still just seems so pointless.

what is the OWS end game? so we know why theyre pissed, but what do they really expect to happen? somebody posted a video of a protester there talking about how we should do away with currency or some crazy business. thats his plan to fix this country? i mean, he was going on and on about how there were thousands of people working for pepsi and coke who shouldnt be, because they could be doing more important things like growing food and stuff. its just childish really, and hopefully not an accurate representation of the overall populations intelligence.

so what is OWS plan?

either way, i still just dont see how blaming the banks for the mess were in is going to help. not a single bank held a gun to a single persons head and made them sign up for a mortgage they didnt understand and couldnt afford. no banks made people spend money they didnt have.

if everyone spent as much time trying to better themselves as they did bitching about what everyone else has we would all be better off.

It is the bank's fault. Why? They should know better. They're the economic leaders of this nation. The specialists of money. What they essentially did was present poisonous candy to a baby in order to make a profit. Your stance are that people should not be financial "babies". Fine, but that's a very limited way to think. Should I perform my own surgeries too? No. I'm not a medical specialist. I know the basics of the human anatomy in order to know that getting hit by a car will probably kill me, or cutting my wrists will bleed me out. But I am a specialist in another field, like many others are. Be it construction to salesman to maid to farmer to porn star to engineer to doctor to scientist to teacher. Everyone is specialized including the economists, brokers and financial experts on Wall Street. We the people put trust in our specialists that they will do what's best for us - their investors. They didn't. They did what was best for themselves in the short term and screwed the rest in the long term.

I can only imagine the meeting that initiated all this economic mess:

Top Wall Street Guy 1 says, " Hey, wouldn't it be amazing if we raided the national reserves, get all that money, at the same time kill our competition by buying them out for pennies on the dollar, along with destablising the world economy so we can buy up everything? We would be supreme rules of this mud ball! Whahaha! Whahahaha!!" Wall Street Guy 2 says, " So , how do propose to do that legally so the people don't turn against us?" Wall Street Guy 1 replies, " By lobbying government to deregulate the system, then offering mortgages to those who can't afford to pay them back, then quickly package those mortgages and sell them to our competition and world governments, then increase the prime interest rate ensuring no one can pay back their mortgages at the higher installments which will collapse everything including our biggest clients making us look like the victims also, then ask for trillions in bailout money, payoff enough in government to lobby for this action, then with the bailout we buy up our clients and competition and countries, then finally pay for massive ads campaigns to blame the people not the banks for the mess!! Whahaha! Whahahaha!!"

All the people that are calling the OWS movement Anti-Capitalism are completely brain-washed by the MSM. What we have today is a morden version of Feudalism -

Feudalism was a social system that originated in medieval Europe according to which the nobility held lands from the Crown in exchange for military service, and vassals were in turn tenants of the nobles, while the peasants (villeins or serfs) were obliged to live on their lord's land and give him homage, labor, and a share of the produce, notionally in exchange for military protection[1]

wikipedia

Capitalism is a system where you make profit while ensuring the lively hood of your employees and making sure that your service and/or products help the end users.
Making a profit AT ANY COST is NOT the ONLY goal of Capitalism

Originally posted by Himal
All the people that are calling the OWS movement Anti-Capitalism are completely brain-washed by the MSM. What we have today is a morden version of Feudalism -

Feudalism was a social system that originated in medieval Europe according to which the nobility held lands from the Crown in exchange for military service, and vassals were in turn tenants of the nobles, while the peasants (villeins or serfs) were obliged to live on their lord's land and give him homage, labor, and a share of the produce, notionally in exchange for military protection[1]

wikipedia

Capitalism is a system where you make profit while ensuring the lively hood of your employees and making sure that your service and/or products help the end users.
Making a profit AT ANY COST is NOT the ONLY goal of Capitalism

It's actually worse than that. Not only is it a nobility-based system but it's a straight-up monarchy where our economy is concerned. Nearly every ultra-wealthy person in the US can trace their money back through their family for at least 300 years. This isn't capitalism. This isn't democracy. This is a feudal monarchy and will be for as long as politicians can accept money.

reply to post by bhornbuckle75


One of the good points I never hear being made about universal health care is the number of jobs that would be created. If all those millions of people who can't currently afford care were suddenly given access to it there would be a huge demand for more health care professionals...Drs, nurses, support staff...All the way around.

Even though various groups are "organized" against a common "enemy", this is nothing more than organized chaos. Multiple groups with their own agendas, wacked out leaders who are seizing this opportunity to get their message out. Now you have the Democrats trying to jump onto this as they turn it into a result of evil Republican policies.

Those who think that Democrats are absolved of any wrongdoing on Wall Street need to get a clue. However, Democrats are pretty good at raping the average citizen with its assundry of government entitlement programs and taxes that stiffle production.

There will be no real positive change from this. It's become too politcal already and will self destruct. I find it rather humorous that since the Democrats became involved trying to make this out to be about Republicans, that the news coverage has exploded. Yet when Ron Paul supporters who advocate returning America to upholding the Constitution and smaller government rally, hardly a peep is heard on any MSM channel. And, from what I've heard, these folks are espousing some of the very ideals that Paul supporters have been shouting for years.

Funny how the MSM can trivialize Ron Paul supporters but watch them go all fanatical if Republicans or anyone else dare try to trivialize these folks. And that's all I got to say about that.

Originally posted by ReluctantBlossom
reply to post by bhornbuckle75

 

One of the good points I never hear being made about universal health care is the number of jobs that would be created. If all those millions of people who can't currently afford care were suddenly given access to it there would be a huge demand for more health care professionals...Drs, nurses, support staff...All the way around.

Doctors might be scarce. The majority of doctors oppose government involvement, for many reasons other than just their lack of profit (but that is obviously a factor, too). But it would likely create more bureaucrats and make costs go even higher. The amount of doctors who plan on retiring when 2014 kicks in is frightening.

reply to post by Cuervo


Alan Grayson for POTNAR....

....President of the New American Republic....

reply to post by CantSay


wasnt it over regulation that largely led to this?

when the government started telling banks they HAD to give loans to the "underprivileged". because that way the poor and minorities could finally own homes too?

banks used to be able to make decisions on their own if i understand things right. if somebody came in and said "i work as a janitor this year. ive had 10 jobs in the past 5 years, and i make aproximately $20,000 a year. and have 3 kids i pay child support for. i would like a loan for $250,000 for a house" the banks could just say NO. because it is obvious that they are a risky loan.

had the banks been able to pick and choose who they give loans to, we probably wouldnt be in this mess. but instead, government had to get involved and make sure "everything was fair" for everyone, and anyone could get a loan that wanted one. creative solutions had to be implemented because banks HAD TO lend to people.

and people who dont understand what adjustable rates are and dont understand what interest is, or how it works, or why its even there are just completely innocent because they didnt want to take the time to read and understand a document they were signing that committed them to a 30 year agreement??? what sort of idiot does that??? how is that the banks fault that people are extremely ignorant, lazy and greedy?? people wanted things they couldnt afford! thats what caused a lot of this mess. the bankers are just soooo greedy for "taking everyones money", but the people who took the money from the bank that they could never pay back arent greedy at all? go figure.

it just not the banks fault like everyone makes it out to be. and if you truly believe it is, then you are now officially buying My house, because i offered it to you. you will be purchasing it for $600,000. send me a private message with your address where i can send you the contract. but dont worry about reading it. its not important that you know what you are getting into. its only 30 years anyways!

Originally posted by radosta

Originally posted by ReluctantBlossom
reply to post by bhornbuckle75

 

One of the good points I never hear being made about universal health care is the number of jobs that would be created. If all those millions of people who can't currently afford care were suddenly given access to it there would be a huge demand for more health care professionals...Drs, nurses, support staff...All the way around.

Doctors might be scarce. The majority of doctors oppose government involvement, for many reasons other than just their lack of profit (but that is obviously a factor, too). But it would likely create more bureaucrats and make costs go even higher. The amount of doctors who plan on retiring when 2014 kicks in is frightening.

I am a physician.

The amount of FEAR, and near panic, in the upper administrative eschelons of medicine is

disgusting, re: current government cutbacks to pay across the board. Duh, the US govt is broke!

And why is the US govt broke? Because they bailed out Wall St. Not hospitals. Not Main St. Not

homeowners. Not small business. Wall St even destroyed what was left of healthcare!!!

We have more work than we can handle. I read a CT or MRI in under 10 minutes

on call, due to the conveyor belt of scans. Our oncologists have 7 minutes with patients, SEVEN!

There is an endless sea of suffering. The only reason I need to maintain my current salary near

where it is (i could take a 50k haircut, if it went to the right place...), is because of the outrageous

cost of living in the Boston area! Thankyou Boston bloodmoneybaggers! Doctors also pay too

much for med school - like our youngsters pay excessively for a useless college degree - so that

there is so much to reform, and so little time. Ok, Im done. But don't think all doctors (especially us

under 45) support Wall St. and the conservative movement. In fact, I hate them. The only value

i see in the tea party is the immense wake up call to the country that Washington is infested with

rats, and the Rats must go....

Originally posted by radosta

Originally posted by ReluctantBlossom
reply to post by bhornbuckle75

 

One of the good points I never hear being made about universal health care is the number of jobs that would be created. If all those millions of people who can't currently afford care were suddenly given access to it there would be a huge demand for more health care professionals...Drs, nurses, support staff...All the way around.

Doctors might be scarce. The majority of doctors oppose government involvement, for many reasons other than just their lack of profit (but that is obviously a factor, too). But it would likely create more bureaucrats and make costs go even higher. The amount of doctors who plan on retiring when 2014 kicks in is frightening.

The reason other nations can handle the demand when they have free healthcare is because they also have free education. They realize that educating their citizens is in their own best interests. This is also why those nations have brain-drain to the US. We hire many educated foreigners because they don't have tons of debt and can accept smaller salaries. Sucks for them. Sucks for us. Free university education for the US would help the whole world.

reply to post by Cuervo


Sorry, but if your neighbor is a spend-thrift and wastes all of his money, and if I went into your bank account, withdrew your money and gave it to your neighbor to help him out of his financial delimma, who are you going to blame for your depleted bank account? Certainly, you aren't going to blame your neighbor because he's not the one that dipped into your account in the first place. Instead, you would blame me for taking your money and giving it to someone who has already demonstrated that he cannot be trusted to properly manage money... and I did so without your consent.

Well, the banks and the auto industry demonstrated that they could not be trusted to manage their finances properly, so the politicians in DC dipped into our money (taxes that we paid into the system for things other than bailing out failing businesses) and gave it away. We cannot blame the corporations for taking the money. If you were in debt as deeply as they were in, you would have taken the money too. Instead, the blame for the destruction of the nation's net worth should fall directly upon the shoulders of the politicians.

America is currently heading down the rocky path towards socialism, thanks to the current administration, but they cannot get us there as long as the system of Capitalism operates within America. And so, there are those that try to distract us from the true villains in hopes that socialism will become a reality in America, and they insist that the economic problems of our nation and the world must be blamed upon Wall Street and the American banking industry (notice that they aren't also attacking the union-backed automobile industry that also got bailed out).

the blank check they gave the fed for bailouts is the biggest heist in american history, there is basically no accounting for where that money went

Originally posted by Cuervo
Three years ago, Wall Street ruined our economy. Nobody has been indicted or convicted. They destroyed 20% of our net worth that we have worked 200 years to accumulate. What is so hard to understand? And don't tell me to take it to DC because people who say that really know that this is where the criminals are but they just don't want to admit that their pet political groups/parties/movements might not be as vigilant as they wish.

What's the easiest way to keep cockroaches at bay? Sweep the food off your freakin' floor!

Three years ago was when Obama got elected into office.
That should be enough to tell you all you need to know.
The buck has got to stop somewhere, unless of course you feel he deserves a free pass.

too bad somebody like Alan Grayson can't speak for the OWS protests, this thing may fizzle out with no result whatsoever, i hope that doesnt happen