Are these chemtrials or contrails?

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by chrisnolefan
Definately CHEMtrails. Dont pay any attention to howard, hes FOS about them being contrails. Itd be nice if one day they would tell us what theyre really doing so all the nonbelievers would shutup.

You are the one claiming that they are chemtrails.

All I ask is that you prove it.

So far no one has done that.

No shred of scientific proof.

Nothing.

Nada

Nix.

0

Sorry to burst your theory on contrails being composed of water vapor. Where in the HELL did you get that anyway? holy # your mind is warped beyond, beyond x10 infinity (did you believe you could x10 infinity lol jk with ya)

Ok, contrails basically function like clouds depending on the engine most commericial line contrails dissapate before your eyes. Chemtrails which some of you are getting confused with, are sometimes contrails (coming from airplane exhaust) but have characteristics of your classical chemtrail (they stay in air for longer periods of time) because of the chemical behavior of those gases in the state of the atmosphere at that point in time. How high the airplane is flying also changes how the contrail will function.

Thats how you can get pictures of multiple "chemtrails" crossing eachother and SLOWLY dissapating across (or stretching across the sky)

They COULD be chemtrails, but from regular aircraft...thats where a lot of you guys are getting confused and coming up with the "above top secret" to it.

In another thread I had said they were chemtrails without stating the other points.


Edit here > Just FYI meterologists and some other groups of scientists did some observations of how chemtrails and contrails affect the earth's temperture. I can't remember the exact amount, but taken over the period when commericial flight was the scare of a nation they found temps to decrease. Pretty cool stuff.

[edit on 2-9-2004 by Aether]

Thanks for the new sig line

To end the question of what they are made up of, i gotta say he is somewhat right. CO2 and H20 but its not water vapor.

Edit > Ok went and found a damn near good site of what they REALLY are
science.howstuffworks.com...

[edit on 2-9-2004 by Aether]

Originally posted by HowardRoark
So Sauron, are you saying that a contrail, which is made up of water vapor (ice crystals, actually) which is the same thing that clouds are made of, does not behave in the same way as a cloud?

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Sauron:

Do you agree that contrails are composed of the same thing as clouds (i.e. ice crystals)?

What part of the term "ice crystals" don't you understand?

[edit on 2-9-2004 by HowardRoark]

HAVE U EVER NOTICED.???

[1] in the 60s,70s,80s there were no (visible) chemtrails. not that i have ever noticed anyway. i used to lie on my back watching planes take off and land when i was a kid living 2 miles away from the local international airport. even the big jets don't emit much contrail. this is just my observation when i was a kid.

[2] lately (say past 20+ years) i have had the chance to work and travel to parts of Asia, Japan and now Australia/NZ - the only place i ever saw chemtrails was in Japan. There were so much chemtrails over the city of Osaka and Tokyo and you would be hardpressed to find one over Beijing. You can ask ex-pats working in major asian countries. Infact i haven't see one in chinese cities, hongkong or bangkok or bangalore.
In the 80s chemtrails were a rarity in Australia. i know since i play cricket and when u play cricket - you stay outdoor for a game which can last 8 hours/day. by 90s i saw a few.. not many. But during the last 2 years , they have begun spraying almost every week. You can tell the difference between a contrail and a chemtrail. a contrail evaporates quickly - just go to the nearest airforce base and a commercial airport and observe.


[3] Lately spraying is being done at dawn before sunrise. after observing these and natural cloud formation - you can actually tell the difference between clouds and chemtrails. - even after they have dispersed due to atmospheric pressure and wind.

Lastly , i have no idea what they are spraying. all i can say for myself is: is not natural and it ain't no aircraft jet fuel trail. My naive guess are:

* they are trying to deodorize the air of smog.
* they are trying to get rid of mosquitoes.
* they are trying to get rid of germs.

but whatever it is - no one is actually saying anything. the funny thing though is: if you tell your friends - they'll laugh at you. i have stop making it a conversation topic simple because i don't know what it is & what is being sprayed. I ve done some reading - some says it is 'weather control' others say 'population control'. who knows?

everyone is exposed. there's no place to hide on this one.

[edit on 2-9-2004 by iceTman]

Originally posted by HowardRoark

Originally posted by HowardRoark
So Sauron, are you saying that a contrail, which is made up of water vapor (ice crystals, actually) which is the same thing that clouds are made of, does not behave in the same way as a cloud?

Originally posted by HowardRoark
Sauron:

Do you agree that contrails are composed of the same thing as clouds (i.e. ice crystals)?

What part of the term "ice crystals" don't you understand?

[edit on 2-9-2004 by HowardRoark]

If your trying to outwit me or something you should know there's no such thing as an "ice crystal" Last time i checked ice was H20 not C02. And the other time i spit someone as weak minded as someone like you I took a look at my ice tray and didnt see crystals.

First you say its vapor then you try to prove they are crystals. Make your statements don't grey line us. /slap

"looky me i have ATS points" "let me use a misunderstatement posted originally by myself to make someone look less on a forum" /slap

[edit on 2-9-2004 by Aether]

WTF are you talking about?

Originally posted by iceTman
HAVE U EVER NOTICED.???

[1] in the 60s,70s,80s there were no (visible) chemtrails. not that i have ever noticed anyway. i used to lie on my back watching planes take off and land when i was a kid living 2 miles away from the local international airport. even the big jets don't emit much contrail. this is just my observation when i was a kid.

* they are trying to deodorize the air of smog.
* they are trying to get rid of mosquitoes.
* they are trying to get rid of germs.

[edit on 2-9-2004 by iceTman]

Ever see footage from high-altitude bombing in World War 2? The 4-engine bombers and the fighter escorts create clear contrails. Contrails can form from the air compression on wing surfaces during tight maneuvers!

Crewmen of an American ship watch the contrails as American
and Japanese planes fight it out above Task Force 58 in the Great
Marianas Turkey Shoot on June 19, 1944.






'Deodorize the air of smog.' Ok, process of this aside, why do you see contrails in areas with no smog?

'Trying to get rid of mosquitoes'

I can think of far more effective ways to spray for mosquitos than disperse toxins at 35,000 feet. Like, maybe driving one of the municipal trucks with mosquitoe sprayers. Besides, contrails appear year-round.

'Trying to get rid of germs.'

Again, spraying germ disinfectant at 30,000 feet - where there are no germs, is not going to get rid of many germs on the ground.

[edit on 2-9-2004 by taibunsuu]

Tai,
i think i was just saying those tongue in cheek.
as for your pix depicting fighter jets - of course these are contrails. i never said there is/were no contrails. infact i suggested watching them from an airbase/airport. but these dissipates in tens of minutes . whereas chemtrails lingers for hours.

If an aircraft makes a trail when taking off from an airport, it's because it's burning fuel like a furnace and if its military can be using water injection. This is basically smoke and dissipates quickly.

Contrails are clouds of ice in the upper atmosphere and can stick around a good long time.

What amount of chemicals would an aircraft have to carry to streak them all the way across the sky in a visible effect? What could the possible use be? It simply doesn't make sense and people are making a mountain out of a molehill on this one.

We have perfectly explainable contrails. Now people want to say that for some unknown reason we see non-feasible trails of chemicals across the sky that look exactly like contrails. What's in these chemtrails, what's their purpose, and how are they a secret? How much chemicals are loaded on to planes? One solid answer, one total mystery without a single fact to support it. Unless someone can come up with something I'm gonna throw this thread into the 'stupid' folder.

Originally posted by ANOK
Wow you must have read my reply right as I posted it. 2 mins later after re-reading your post I edited it.
I read Kano's post, prooves nothing to me. Contrails are not formed the way clouds are, pls re-read my post on how contrials are formed.

I like the part at the end where you say "I think...lol".

From wikipedia.com:
Contrails are condensation trails (sometimes vapour trails): artificial clouds made by the exhaust of jet aircraft or wingtip vortices which precipitate a stream of tiny ice crystals in moist, frigid upper air. They are the cloud-like trails of water vapour that can be seen in the wake of airplanes, either from their exhaust or sometimes from their wing tips.
...
Contrails are created in one of two ways:

1. Firstly, the airplane's exhaust increases the amount of moisture in the air, which can push the water content of the air past saturation point (see saturation or dew point). This causes condensation to occur, and the contrail to form.

2. The wings of an airplane causes a drop in air pressure in the vicinity of the wing (this is partly what allows a plane to fly). This drop in air pressure brings with it a drop in temperature, which can cause water to condense out of the air and form a contrail.

Exhaust contrails tend to be more stable and long-lasting than wing-tip contrails, which are often disrupted by the aircraft's wake.

So now we know how contrails are REALLY formed.

And then read Saurons post.

Which one? There are several.

Some things are hard to prove unless you see them for yourself.
How about you go out and try to disprove this for yourself instead of trying to get people to prove it for you.

I see the same thing you see in the sky, but I see a contrail. You see something different.

I have pointed to proof of the contrail, and tried to give proof of a contrail persisting in the sky. You tell me its a chemtrail, all I am asking is for you to prove it. I say its a contrail, and there is lots of data and science backing that up.

Take a look at that howstufworks.com article, there are some pretty cool scientific things in there, especially about cloud formation.

Just because it can't be proved here on a website forum doesn't mean it's not happening.

I agree 100%. But to just look at a picture, state its a chemtrail, and expect everybody to believe you would not be a good way to do things.

Deny ignorance. Prove the truth. If they are chemtrails, prove it with some science that is reproduceable (that is the key to any experiment).

Until then, I do not believe in chemtrails as discussed in this thread. The question has been asked several times, why spray something at that height? Would it not disperse too much by the time it hit the ground?

Originally posted by Aether
Last time i checked ice was H20 not C02. *edited out*

No need to personally attack anybody.

Don't forget about "dry ice". CO2 that is below its freezing point.

Have you ever made it snow indoors? Fun experiment.

Warm, moist air is pumped into a clear container that has a hole in the top with a lid (usually just by breathing into the container). Rub one end of a dowel rod on some dry ice, remove the lid from the top of the container, and tap the 'ice crystals', that are on the dowel, into the container. Walla, a mini cloud (very very light, difficult to see without the correct lighting) forms, and it starts to snow!!! Whee!!!

[edit on 9/3/04 by crayon]

Another question.... This is directed to anyone that say chemtrails last for long periods of time.. Go to a Air show!! Many of the planes burn a CHEMICAL to produce the smoke trail (AKA CHEMtrail) appearing lines behind the plane. Just take in mind how fast they dissipate.

ok a chemical based brain control.. YYYAAAAA the government wants everyone to think a certain way.. hmm that wouldn't get suspicious at all.. noooo.. not one bit!

I'll say again, the government is trying to fix the ozone.. hmm lets think about this.. GREAT, fix it, I would be more then happen to have a chemical sprayed that would fix this world!

Government trying to control weather.. hmm OK! I have been in an area that had multiple tornados before. I'll be more then happy to not go through that again!

For the most part, I have seen the excuses of chemtrails being something to HELP the world. I can only see one reason why it is not a good thing to tell us about it. That reason is that there are so many little whining bi---es(fill in the rest) out there that they have to complain and moan about anything they can.

Originally posted by iceTman
Tai,
i think i was just saying those tongue in cheek.
as for your pix depicting fighter jets - of course these are contrails. i never said there is/were no contrails. infact i suggested watching them from an airbase/airport. but these dissipates in tens of minutes . whereas chemtrails lingers for hours.

They are not fighter jets, iceTman, this was taken in 1944.

Originally posted by Aether

If your trying to outwit me or something you should know there's no such thing as an "ice crystal" Last time i checked ice was H20 not C02. And the other time i spit someone as weak minded as someone like you I took a look at my ice tray and didnt see crystals.

First you say its vapor then you try to prove they are crystals. Make your statements don't grey line us. /slap

"looky me i have ATS points" "let me use a misunderstatement posted originally by myself to make someone look less on a forum" /slap

[edit on 2-9-2004 by Aether]

OK, I�m going to type this real slow so that I don�t lose you.

Contrails are formed when water vapor is produced as a result of the combustion of hydrocarbons. When the relative humidity is high enough, the water vapor condenses out into a cloud. These clouds are just like the ones you see overhead every day. If the temperature is above 32 degrees F, the clouds will consist of water droplets. If the temperature is below 32 degrees F, the clouds will consist of ice crystals. Capiche?

Contrails are much more likely to form at higher altitudes because of a number of factors, these are: low temperature (-40 degrees F), low atmospheric pressure (facilitates the rapid cooling of the engine exhaust) and high relative humidity.

It is the relative humidity with respect to ice (RHice) at high altitudes that will determine how long a contrail will last. If the RHice is below 100% the contrail will eventually dissipate. The lower the RHice, the faster it will dissipate. If the RHice is 100% the contrail will persist until the RHice drops below 100%.

In a number of cases, the RHice is actually over 100% This is a condition known as super saturation. It is fairly common at high altitudes because of the relative lack of particulate matter present. The particulate mater provides a nucleus for the ice crystal to form.

This is all basic meteorology 101.

Now if the RHice is significantly over 100%, then the contrail can actually have the effect of triggering the clouds to form and grow. This is because as the ice crystals in the original contrail grow, they can break up and form new crystals. (Bergeron process)

So Sorry Aeither, you have only yourself to blame for looking silly.


[edit on 3-9-2004 by HowardRoark]

As I was reading through this, Sauron posted that barium had been found in chemtrails. I work in diagnostic imaging (xray, CT), we commonly use a barium sulphate suspension as an orally ingested contrast material. The high Z number of barium attenuates a lot of xray energy as it passes through a patients body, highlighting anatomy that has been coated with the barium solution. Not that I buy into chemtrails being purposely created for some sinister plot, I just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents worth on the subject. The barium could be used to filter radiation from the atmosphere.

Two problems with that, Trazom,

One, it presupposes the existence of chemtrails, which, as I and others have taken great pains to point out, have no basis in fact.

Two, you blindly accept he assertion that it has been proven that barium has been found somewhere. The problem is, that there is no reliable analysis of anything that indicates the presence of barium. Carnicom�s so-called analysis isn�t worth the electricity it take to view his page.

I came across this thread, and it reminded me of some pics I took earlier this year.

I dunno if they're chemtrails, but it was the most criss-crossed sky I'd ever seen, this was very early in the morning, it was just getting light, so, they must have been doing this at night.

Originally posted by VelvetSplash
I came across this thread, and it reminded me of some pics I took earlier this year.

I dunno if they're chemtrails, but it was the most criss-crossed sky I'd ever seen, this was very early in the morning, it was just getting light, so, they must have been doing this at night.

Where you see multiple "CONTRAILS" cross is usually directly above a NAVAID, such as a VOR or an NDB. These are transmitters used by air traffic to navigate the "airways in the sky", so to speak.

Someone earlier mentioned aircraft over California flying patterns in the sky, "spraying chemtrails". Most likely these were KC-10 or KC-135 Air Refuelers flying the numerous refueling tracks that cover the country.

Of course, there will always be the "Chicken Little�s" out there screaming, "the CHEMtrails are falling, the CHEMtrails are falling!!!"

Howard knows from whence he speaks�keep up the good work�.

Originally posted by Aether

Sorry to burst your theory on contrails being composed of water vapor. Where in the HELL did you get that anyway? holy # your mind is warped beyond, beyond x10 infinity (did you believe you could x10 infinity lol jk with ya)

What pray tell, kind of crack are you smoking? CONTRAILS are a product of CONDENSATION. Yes, jet engines do make them, but so do high flying aircraft when the atmospheric conditions are right. Ever see vintage footage of B-17's during WWI??? High altitude, lots of CONTRAILS....


What do you get when you CONDENSE water?

Ice crystals....


Do some reading....