AIDS, Alzheimer's, Cancer - and Mad Cow Prions. What's the Story?

I'm hoping everyone realizes the "prion problem" goes wayy beyond Mad Cow Disease. A HUGE range of industrial activities - external environmental changes and exposures - can cause proteins to misfold and become infectious. For example, medications…

Numerous now-common medical drugs contain infectious misfolded proteins, implicated in Alzheimer's and other neurodegenerative and autoimmune diseases. …..Such drugs and their infectious misfolded proteins cause immunogenicity, affect the immune system, and trigger auto-immune responses. Type 2 diabetes is one of the many new diseases with an auto-immune component that may be caused by the infectious misfolded proteins in medications.

Obviously, Big Pharma, like agribusiness, would much rather "blame the victims" than take corporate-personal responsibility. And they are quite able to exploit "New Age" pseudo-medicos - and maneuver them into fueling their Denial Machine, creating a false "debate" and manipulating public perception.

A Role for Protein Misfolding in Immunogenicity of Biopharmaceuticals

…..misfolding of therapeutic proteins is an immunogenic signal and a risk factor for immunogenicity. ……Over the past decades, the use of therapeutic proteins has become common practice in medicine ……

Protein misfolding is an intrinsic and problematic property of proteins, which underlies a variety of degenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer disease. These diseases are characterized by the occurrence of fibrillar deposits, classically termed amyloid, containing aggregates of misfolded proteins.

……experiments pointed out that biopharmaceuticals, like any other protein, are amyloidogenic and that misfolding, detected by amyloid markers, takes place in several preparations. These markers, however, are not necessarily specific for fibrillar amyloid, but also for smaller misfolded protein species.

….. Various Biopharmaceuticals Display Amyloid-like Properties upon Exposure to Conditions of Stress, Indicating Protein Misfolding — During manufacturing and storage, biopharmaceuticals may also become exposed to various conditions of stress that can potentially underlie protein misfolding and the formation of amyloid-like properties.

…….Our results point to a common mechanism by which the immune system perceives misfolded proteins. We hypothesize that this lies in the changed conformation of the protein backbone itself. This implies that the innate immune system may be activated by recognition of the amyloid-like properties of misfolded protein. …

oops. double post

reply to post by soficrow


Exactly, the motto of big pharma to maximize profits is one pill for all, like that they do not have to extend their research to personalized medicine.

You only find that with holistic approach, my herbalist have a herbal compound made for my personal needs after treating me for over a month and listening to my complains.

I am talking about herbals only accessible by prescription no over the counter, some natural medicine can be as strong and as dangerous in higher doses as big pharma medications, but they have less side effects and can be used to target specific ailments.

reply to post by marg6043


I get what you're saying marg, but my concern is that industry is creating new prions every day - not just in food processing, drug manufacturing and factory farming, but pretty much everywhere. We're stuck with what's already out there, but do you think we could stop the world, change the economy and stop creating new prions?

...Do you think it's possible for people to accept the idea that "disease" is evidence of adaptation and evolution? ...Can you?

reply to post by soficrow


The real problem comes not from the stuff pumped into the food.

It comes from people not knowing how to fight back other than not buying their products.

And on top of this people within the conspiracy theory community only want to talk.

Educating people on the topic is only one portion of the fight.

Having action to back up the rhetoric will see things through.

Up and until such time as the conspiracy theory community does more nothing will happen.

Our community needs to make an effort and become a political force.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Gotcha - but did you see this post?

Could you please read it and comment on it? ...Point being, it's not just our food that's contaminated - prions are a natural byproduct of any 'process' involving proteins, the whole world is already contaminated, and there's really no way to get rid of them... The upside is that prions are clearly an evolutionary mechanism and we could conceivably benefit if we are not totally overwhelmed by their negative effects first.

I found that some researchers who have been ridiculed by NIH and National Science Foundation board members have found a simple cure for a lot of neurodegenerative diseases- namely massive doses of antibiotics. Parkinson's, ALS, and Alzheimer's victims alltest positive for Lyme's Disease ( that is for the genetic material of the spirochaete which is in all of these victims). So, research into conformation of macromolecules ( protein folding ) is barking up the wrong tree, don't you think. The spiral shape of the organism causing Lyme's Disease may be the protein folder. These researchers are so far imbeded in NIH funds that any new finding would be embarrassing.

reply to post by soficrow


I guess all we can do is get our bodies stronger to be able to fight what comes our way, we are surrounded by all kind of dangers we breath them, eat them, bath ourselves with it even our babies are been born polluted already.

Its going to take generations to undo what we have been done to ours and even that could be impossible.

reply to post by siluriancryptic


Infections cause inflammation, which triggers prion propagation. Prions also 'hitchhike' on viruses, bacteria, fungi and other microbes - so no, looking at misfolded proteins is not barking up the wrong tree. ...Think of it like Lyme disease (for example) being the delivery system, and prions being the bullet / mechanism.

reply to post by marg6043

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by soficrow

 

I guess all we can do is get our bodies stronger to be able to fight what comes our way, we are surrounded by all kind of dangers we breath them, eat them, bath ourselves with it even our babies are been born polluted already.

Its going to take generations to undo what we have been done to ours and even that could be impossible.

Good post. Thanks. S&

...but I think maybe we can do more. Not sure what though.

reply to post by marg6043


We might have to do a bit more.

Infectious misfolded proteins cause numerous debilitating, degenerative and disabling diseases - referred to generically as chronic "noncommunicative diseases" (NCD's) - five of which are now pandemic.

The first phase in the depopulation scheme looks to be euthansasia, or "mercy killing." The first targets will be people with advanced Alzheimer's and dementias. The next phase likely will focus on the idea that these diseases can be transmitted "genetically" - and move to target all people with mental illness as potentially dangerous and "genetically inferior," likely for quarantine. Shortly after that, any unemployed, sick and/or homeless people will be at the top of the list. But it won't stop there.

Fact is, there are many pathways to misfolded proteins - including food processing, drug manufacturing and other industrial activities. Many common products, including medications, are contaminated with misfolded proteins.

Proteins are the building blocks of life - and our bodies are constantly creating new ones for repair, maintenance and replacement parts. These proteins don't just need the right chemistry - they need to be folded into exactly the right shape to work. Problem is, proteins misfold easily, in response to "environmental perturbations" - including temperature changes, or exposure to chemicals, heavy metals, oxygen or radiation.

But even though industrial activities like food processing and drug manufacturing are well-known to create infectious misfolded proteins, and cause disease, people are being blamed for "making themselves sick."

A Role for Protein Misfolding in Immunogenicity of Biopharmaceuticals

…..misfolding of therapeutic proteins is an immunogenic signal and a risk factor for immunogenicity. ……Over the past decades, the use of therapeutic proteins has become common practice in medicine ……

Protein misfolding is an intrinsic and problematic property of proteins, which underlies a variety of degenerative diseases, such as Alzheimer disease. These diseases are characterized by the occurrence of fibrillar deposits, classically termed amyloid, containing aggregates of misfolded proteins.

……experiments pointed out that biopharmaceuticals, like any other protein, are amyloidogenic and that misfolding, detected by amyloid markers, takes place in several preparations. These markers, however, are not necessarily specific for fibrillar amyloid, but also for smaller misfolded protein species.

….. Various Biopharmaceuticals Display Amyloid-like Properties upon Exposure to Conditions of Stress, Indicating Protein Misfolding — During manufacturing and storage, biopharmaceuticals may also become exposed to various conditions of stress that can potentially underlie protein misfolding and the formation of amyloid-like properties.

…….Our results point to a common mechanism by which the immune system perceives misfolded proteins. We hypothesize that this lies in the changed conformation of the protein backbone itself. This implies that the innate immune system may be activated by recognition of the amyloid-like properties of misfolded protein. …

...........continued...............

...................continued from above................




The NCD pandemic is getting a fair amount of press these days.

Time to fight the new global pandemic of chronic diseases

New cases of chronic noncommunicable diseases (NCDs) such as heart disease, stroke, cancer, diabetes and chronic lung disease are exploding throughout the world, even in the poorest countries. These conditions account for 63 percent of deaths globally, and 80 percent of those deaths are occurring in low- and middle-income countries. Chronic diseases are also incredibly disabling and have a major negative impact on economic development, as they occur at a much earlier age and rob families of their breadwinners.

This pandemic is already destroying families, bankrupting nations and health care systems, and threatening the global economy.

…What's going to happen in 10 or 20 years when millions more people are debilitated and disabled? [Hint: In case you think this is a health issue, it's not.]

Chronic disease to cost $47 trillion by 2030: WEF

"This is not a health issue, this is an economic issue…"

And in case you might blame corporate industry or Big Pharma, let's make it perfectly clear:

What's killing us? Diseases that will kill 9 of 10 Americans

…..cancer, heart disease, diabetes, and a variety of other chronic ailments. And worse, unlike some infectious diseases, they're quite preventable.

This new, ultra-deadly pandemic threat is caused by we, ourselves. Sedentary lifestyles, poor eating habits, smoking, and other high-risk behavior causes most of these diseases. ….

More than anything, the root causes are apathy and sloth.

[/sarcasm]

reply to post by soficrow


It is worth noting that the "Public Solves Protein Structure" incident, where some gamers solved a problem that had stumped scientists for over a decade -and from the comfort of their own home, simply just playing games, no less - is a microcosmic illustration of a very real and extremely serious problem that has infected much of the Western "health-care" model. Gamers were just playing games, and because of this, without even trying, thinking outside of a box that far too many scientists, researchers, and doctors have crammed themselves in.

Sofi, I am sorry to use your thread as a soap box to preach the same sermon I have been preaching for a while now, but I think this has relevance. Not enough people are aware of the fact that a word such as iatrogenocide even exists, let alone what it means:

A generation ago, people trusted their doctors blindly and implicitly. There seemed to be a personal bond with one's doctor which has eroded with the emphasis on medicine as a business, CPT codes, HMOs and iatrogeny, among other things. The health care market place is not kind and people have lost trust. Iatrogeny plays a large and ugly role in this.

A recent study published in The Joumal of The American Medical Association 2000:284:94); by Barbara Starfield, MD, MPH showed that in the US, this data was found:

12,000 deaths/year from unnecessary surgery
7,000 deaths/year from medication errors in hospitals
20,000 deaths/year from other errors in hospitals
80,000 deaths/year from nosocomial infections in hospitals
106,000 deaths/year from adverse effects of medications

This totals 225,000 deaths per year from iatrogenic causes, placing iatrogeny as the third leading cause of death in the US, second only to heart disease and cancer.

"Death by doctor is the third leading cause of death in the United States!

When a nation becomes so complacent, and so naively blind in their faith and trust, that they turn to the third leading cause of death in a hopeless attempt to stay alive, it only makes sense that it would be young kids typically seen as slackers (gamers) who solve a problem that scientists cannot.

Whatever the reality is regarding prions and this "protein folding problem", if it is indeed paving the way towards actually curing certain, if not all, chronic diseases, experience in this health insurance schemes equals "health care" reality, where pharmaceutical companies are making huge profits off of chronic disease, that the road Lindquist and others are paving will be blocked and hijacked.

It becomes increasingly difficult to determine who or what to believe anymore, regarding diseases and the "cures" the credentialed snake oil salesmen are pawning off on a naive public. Take the AIDS issue, as just one example. The Scientist article sofi linked in her O.P., and I linked above, about these gamers, offers this:

The protein in question was a retroviral protease of the Mason-Pfizer monkey virus, which causes an AIDS-like disease in monkeys. Over the last decade, many researchers had tried a variety of techniques to determine the protein’s structure, but kept coming up empty handed. “This viral protein…has really evaded the efforts of expert crystallographers and the very best automated tools,” Das said.

The implication is that the gamers have found a necessary clue in the unlocking of the mystery of HIV. However, no sooner had the ethically challenged "Dr." Robert Gallo announced the probable cause of AIDS, than the Western world, particularly the mass media, skipped the scientific method of establishing a theory all together, and began reporting the HIV = AIDS paradigm as a fact.

April 23, U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Margaret Heckler announces at a press conference that an American scientist, Dr. Robert Gallo, has discovered the probable cause of AIDS: the retrovirus subsequently named human immunodeficiency virus or HIV in 1986. She also declares that a vaccine will be available within two years.

This "AIDS Timeline" I've linked, interestingly, and very tellingly, makes no mention of the controversy that followed Gallo's announcement. I posted the paragraph above to show that it was announced that a vaccine for the "HIV" would be available in two years. This is a bold prediction that clearly failed. Many predictions made by the HIV advocates have failed. When a theory continually and constantly produces predictions that fail or miss their mark, this is a sign that the theory itself is problematic at best, at worst just flat out wrong.

For whatever reasons I am constrained by a character limitation. Cont..

reply to post by soficrow


Continuing...

Robert Gallo, in 1984, announced to the world that he had discovered the cause of AIDS, and called this so called cause; HIV. Here is a brief description of the controversy that followed, and continues to plague this "theory" to this day:

Robert Gallo (continued) Allegations Overshadow Scientific Accomplishments Almost a year before Gallo announced his findings, Montagnier at the Pasteur Institute had identified a virus he called LAV, though he was not able to prove that it caused AIDS. The two laboratories were cooperating with each other in the race to find the cause of AIDS and several samples of this virus had been sent to Gallo at the National Cancer Institute. The controversy which would embroil the American scientist's career for almost the next decade began when the United States government denied the French scientists a patent for the AIDS test and awarded one to his team instead. The Pasteur Institute believed their contribution was not recognized in this decision, and they challenged it in court. Gallo did not deny that they had preceded him in isolating the virus, but he argued that it was proof of the causal relationship and the development of the blood test which were most important, and he maintained that these advances had been accomplished using a virus which had been independently isolated in his laboratory.

www.pbs.org/wnet/redgold/innovators/bio_gallo2.html

Take note how PBS presents this controversy as simply a matter of who gets credit for the HIV patents, pretending all the while that as far back as 1984 an HIV strain had been "isolated". However, Etienne de Harven, MD, Emeritus Professor of Pathology, University of Toronto; as recently as 2008, wrote this article:

HIV has never been isolated from AIDS patients

For twenty years, all AIDS research has been based on the HIV hypothesis. Do we now have reasons to question this hypothesis? Yes, because there is a major problem with isolation and purification of HIV. The major problem being that, in spite of innumerable claims to the contrary, this retrovirus has never been isolated nor purified in a scientifically acceptable manner that would satisfy the classic requirements of virology.

Is Dr. Harven just a quack crack pot charlatan? Or was and is Robert Gallo, and even his nemesis/partner Luc Montignier the quack crackpot charlatan's?

This first stage of the controversy ended in a legal settlement that was highly unusual for the scientific community: Gallo and Montagnier agreed out of court to share equal credit for their discovery. This settlement followed a review of records from Gallo's laboratory and rested on the assumption that the virus Gallo had discovered was different from the one Montagnier had sent him. An international committee renamed the virus HIV, and in what Specter calls "the first such negotiated history of a scientific enterprise ever published," the American and French groups published an agreement about their contributions in NATURE in 1987. In 1988, Gallo and Montagnier jointly related the story of the discoveries in SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN.

Of course, in the last post I linked a Timeline of AIDS website, but this "timeline" makes no mention of the controversy between Gallo, the NIH, Montignier and the Pasteur Institute:

HIV (human immunodeficiency virus) is adopted as name of the retrovirus that was first proposed as the cause of AIDS by Luc Montagnier of France, who named it 'LAV (lymphadenopathy associated virus) and Robert Gallo of the United States, who named it HTLV-III (human T-lymphotropic virus type III)

en.wikipedia.org...

I would like to follow this with another off site quote, but this unexplained restriction on the characters I have available to post with is preventing me from posting in a way this issue deserves. Whatever reasons this character limitation has been imposed upon me, it has had the effect of discouraging me from even entering threads like this. I had read your thread, sofi, shortly after you created it, but 5000 characters per post is not near enough to address this issue, and whatever the policy may be, its effect was keeping me out of your thread until you contacted me. Normally I would just keep this to myself and not make such a public complaint about it, but the effect of this policy is that it discourages me from posting in this site unless I can do so briefly and with parsimony. I try to be parsimonious, but topics such as this require much information, and consideration, and ATS's policy is adversely affecting that. If that is their intent, it is working.

Continuing...

In 1983, Luc Montagnier, a French scientist at the Pasteur Institute, claimed to have found a new retrovirus in AIDS patients. But nobody paid attention, because he hadn't isolated a virus, and he hadn't found a single viral particle in the blood - remember the titer was zero, undetectable. Seeking some academic support, Montagnier sent a cell sample to Robert Gallo at the NIH. Gallo took the cell-line Montagnier sent him and modified it slightly. Then he did something strange. He stole it.

In 1984 Gallo called an international press conference and together with Margaret Heckler, the head of the Department of Health and Human Services, announced that he'd discovered the "probable cause" of AIDS. It was a new retrovirus called HTLV-III, (later re-named HIV). Later that same day, he patented the modified cell-line he'd originally gotten from Montagnier. He hadn't published a single word of his research. Robert Gallo, a government-backed scientist, simply announced that a retroviral-epidemic was on its way.

He sold the cell-line to Abbot Labs, a pharmaceutical company that makes HIV tests. The French government demanded that all patent rights be returned to Montagnier. Gallo refused, claiming it was all his work. In 1987, Gallo and Montagnier were forced by President Reagan and French Prime Minister Chirac to meet in a hotel room to work out the HIV patent rights. In 1992, Gallo was officially convicted of theft by a federal scientific ethics committee. The AIDS Debate The Most Controversial Story You've Never Heard By Liam Scheff

www.whale.to...

In fairness to PBS they do report:

Questions about the isolation of the AIDS virus were revived in 1989 by a long article in the CHICAGO TRIBUNE. The journalist, a Pulitzer Prize winner named John Crewdson, had spent three years investigating Gallo's laboratory, making over one hundred requests under the Freedom of Information Act. He directly questioned Gallo's integrity and implied he had stolen Montagnier's virus. The controversy intensified when it was established that the LAV virus which the French had isolated and the HTLV-3 virus were virtually identical. The genetic sequencing in the two were in fact so close that some believed they actually came from the same AIDS patient, and Gallo was accused of simply renaming the virus Montagnier had sent him. Gallo's claim to have independently isolated the virus was further damaged when it was discovered that in the 1984 SCIENCE article announcing his discovery of HTLV-3 he had accidently published a photograph of Montagnier's virus.

www.pbs.org/wnet/redgold/innovators/bio_gallo2.html

Clearly the spin of this article is to praise Gallo and present him as a man whose "accomplishments" were overshadowed by allegations of ethical misconduct. But as hard as the PBS article attempts to put a positive spin on these allegations of misconduct, they awkwardly reveal the problem:

Finding of Scientic Misconduct Reversed on Appeal

In 1990, pressure from a congressional committee forced the NIH to undertake an investigation. In THE WASHINGTON POST, Malcolm Gladwell observed of this inquiry: "No other investigation has taken so long, dealt with a scientific discovery of such importance or directly implicated so distinguished a researcher." The NIH investigation found Popovic guilty of scientific misconduct but Gallo guilty only of misjudgment. A committee of scientists which oversaw the investigation was strongly critical of these conclusions, and the group expressed concern that Popovic had been assigned more than a fair share of the blame. In June 1992, the NIH investigation was superseded by the Office of Research Integrity (ORI) at the Department of Health and Human Services, and in December of that year ORI found both Gallo and Popovic guilty of scientific misconduct . Based largely on a single sentence in the 1984 SCIENCE article that described the isolation of the virus, the ORI report found Gallo guilty of misconduct for "falsely reporting that LAV had not been transmitted to a permanently growing cell line." This decision renewed the legal threat from the Pasteur Institute, whose lawyers moved to claim all the back royalties from the AIDS blood test, which then amounted to approximately $20 million.

Sigh. Not enough characters to continue. I'll be back.

Continuing:
Has Gallo Proven the Role of HIV in AIDS?

ABSTRACT: The evidence that Robert Gallo and his colleagues presented on 4th May 1984 regarding HTLV-III (HIV) isolation and the role of HIV in the pathogenesis of AIDS is critically analysed. It is concluded that the evidence does not constitute proof of the isolation of a retrovirus, that the virus is exogenous or that the virus is causally related to AIDS.

Introduction In 1982, Robert Gallo from the National Cancer Institute in the USA, put forward the hypothesis that the cause of AIDS is a retrovirus. One year later, Myron Essex and his colleagues (1) found that AIDS patients had antibodies to the Human T-cell Leukemia virus Type-1 (HTLV-I), a virus discovered by Gallo a few years earlier. At the same time, Gallo and his colleagues (2) reported the isolation of HTLV-I from AIDS patients and advocated a role for this retrovirus in the pathogenesis of AIDS. This hypothesis however, was not without a few problems: 1. While HTLV-I was accepted to induce T4-cell proliferation and cause adult T-cell leukaemia,(3) the "hallmark" of AIDS was T4-cell depletion, and the incidence of leukaemia in AIDS patients was no higher than in the general population;

Eleni Papadopulos-Eleopulos and her colleagues at the Perth Group are scientists being labeled quacks, crackpots and charlatans by the political machine of the HIV paradigm who like to use terms such as "AIDS denialism" simply because they had the audacity to take a scientific approach to Gallo's decidedly non scientific approach, and ask some valid questions regarding the HIV paradigm.

AIDS denialists? Once respected retro-virologists such as Dr. Peter Deusberg are roundly and mindlessly called "AIDS denialist" even though what Deusberg is arguing:

On the basis of his experience with retroviruses, Duesberg has challenged the virus-AIDS hypothesis in the pages of such journals as Cancer Research, Lancet, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Science, Nature, Journal of AIDS, AIDS Forschung, Biomedicine and Pharmacotherapeutics, New England Journal of Medicine and Research in Immunology. He has instead proposed the hypothesis that the various American/European AIDS diseases are brought on by the long-term consumption of recreational drugs and/or AZT itself, which is prescribed to prevent or treat AIDS. See The AIDS Dilemma: Drug diseases blamed on a passenger virus.

Not even near being and "AIDS" denialist, these people are simply questioning the validity of a hypothesis that has no scientific basis to be called a theory, let alone treated as a fact.

The advocates of HIV have predicted a world wide epidemic of AIDS in the heterosexual population, but this prediction has failed. Although, the "AIDS denialist campaigners" want to use the Africa dilemma as "proof" that HIV is an "equal opportunity killer", the interview I just linked reveals a different story:

But even if HIV was found to cause these previously known conditions, a problem remains. The HIV-antibody tests do not diagnose actual HIV-infection. Instead, they look for non-specific antibody reactions in your blood to proteins in the HIV-test. The test manufacturers claim that the proteins stand in for HIV, but in reality, none of the test proteins have been proven to be specific to HIV. These tests are, in fact, so nonspecific that they cross-react with nearly 70 other documented conditions, including the flu, previous vaccinations, blood transfusions, arthritis, alcoholic hepatitis, drug use, yeast infections and even pregnancy, as well as conditions endemic in Africa: tuberculosis, parasitic infection, leprosy and malaria. Because no HIV test can actually find HIV, not a single HIV-test has been approved by the FDA for diagnosing HIV-infection.

...

Your readers may be surprised to learn that AIDS in Africa is diagnosed completely differently than in Europe or the US. In Africa, an AIDS diagnosis can be made based on commonly occurring physical symptoms alone. This is ironic, because AIDS is a collection of diseases, and has no uniform symptoms. Even the co-founder of HIV theory, Luc Montagnier, admits that AIDS has no specific clinical symptoms.

Yep. Just another "AIDS denialist" spouting of science.

Sofi, I am sorry, this subject requires much more consideration, but I have had it with the character limitations for today. Suffice it to say that this microcosmic historical timeline and data sets I have offered only demonstrate how much trouble we are in regarding Western "medicine", particularly since so much of that is controlled by government. I hope I didn't stray too much from the topic, I just want to share the tragic devolution of science in the Western world.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

I have had it with the character limitations for today.

I understand your frustration. Excellent history and compilation nonetheless. Thank you.

Suffice it to say that this microcosmic historical timeline and data sets I have offered only demonstrate how much trouble we are in regarding Western "medicine", particularly since so much of that is controlled by government.

I hear you, but tend to be more concerned by corporate control of government.

I hope I didn't stray too much from the topic, I just want to share the tragic devolution of science in the Western world.

Well you did strictly speaking but the detailed information is important to the larger discussion. ...I just don't want you to conclude by saying prions aren't relevant.

reply to post by soficrow

Well you did strictly speaking but the detailed information is important to the larger discussion. ...I just don't want you to conclude by saying prions aren't relevant.

Not at all, my point was really to demonstrate that even though these gamers have unlocked a mystery regarding a protein in "HIV', the question of whether HIV is actually linked to AIDS still remains a valid question.

Neither I, nor Deusberg, or the researchers at the Perth Group, or any of the other people asking these questions are arguing that HIV doesn't cause AIDS (Well, maybe Deusberg is), simply just asking valid scientific questions regarding this hypothesis, and the reaction from the corporate/government machine is to call us all "AIDS denialists".

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Gotcha - but did you see this post?

Could you please read it and comment on it? ...Point being, it's not just our food that's contaminated - prions are a natural byproduct of any 'process' involving proteins, the whole world is already contaminated, and there's really no way to get rid of them... The upside is that prions are clearly an evolutionary mechanism and we could conceivably benefit if we are not totally overwhelmed by their negative effects first.

No disrespect meant to you, soficrow, but what's the point?

That is not directed at you specifically.

I've become disenfranchised with the entire conspiracy theory community.

Digging into this stuff, researching it, adding more knowledge is commendable.

I give you and many others many kudos for doing that much and discussing it.

Agreeing, disagreeing, opening up others minds, and all of that.

But after a certain point it is all an empty gesture.

Because no one is actually doing a damn thing to change the status quo.

Well, I take that back, I am, but I see no proof of anyone else.

You, not you specifically, cannot sit around discussing things, and getting others to learn.

Without a specific goal of attempting to change that status quo than through more than knowledge.

If nothing is done with that knowledge then nothing is gained it is useless.

Words without actions to follow behind them are but a hollow gesture and living a lie.

I commend you again, for a great thread, but I need more out of the conspiracy theory community.

I have been a conspiracy theorist now for 32 years, since I was 6, and I've been making efforts.

I have been driving towards changing those things no one else gives a damn about.

I have talked the talk, and walked the walk, and now I'm challenging all conspiracy theorists.

Step up or shut up.

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

Originally posted by soficrow
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Gotcha - but did you see this post?

Could you please read it and comment on it? ...Point being, it's not just our food that's contaminated - prions are a natural byproduct of any 'process' involving proteins, the whole world is already contaminated, and there's really no way to get rid of them... The upside is that prions are clearly an evolutionary mechanism and we could conceivably benefit if we are not totally overwhelmed by their negative effects first.

No disrespect meant to you, soficrow, but what's the point?

I hear your frustration - but no one can take legitimate action in a vacuum of ignorance. And 'legitimate action' encompasses a range of endeavors. Finding, analyzing and storing information is one legitimate action - without which more direct forms of intervention might not occur, or at least, might not occur on point.

Agreeing, disagreeing, opening up others minds, and all of that.

But after a certain point it is all an empty gesture.

Because no one is actually doing a damn thing to change the status quo.

Well, I take that back, I am, but I see no proof of anyone else.

Read the news honey. People are acting, according to your specs, everywhere.

You, not you specifically, cannot sit around discussing things, and getting others to learn.

Without a specific goal of attempting to change that status quo than through more than knowledge.

If nothing is done with that knowledge then nothing is gained it is useless.

Words without actions to follow behind them are but a hollow gesture and living a lie.

Sufism versus Taoism? ...Methinks maintaining 'repositories' of knowledge is essential, more than legitimate.

....I need more out of the conspiracy theory community.

I have been a conspiracy theorist now for 32 years, since I was 6, and I've been making efforts.

I have been driving towards changing those things no one else gives a damn about.

I have talked the talk, and walked the walk, and now I'm challenging all conspiracy theorists.

Step up or shut up.

Ahhh. 38 is a hard age - 40 is looming, and what have you done? What have you got to show for yourself? Your life? What might you leave behind to prove your existence meant something?

Mortality sucks.

....I know it won't help if I say things get easier, fall into place. But they do. And this 'mortal coil' be a thing discovered by every generation in its turn. Would that we could change it all, forever. 'Cept mayhap, 'tis the discovery that be the point.