Lisa Irwin - Missing - One Year Later

reply to post by silo13


keep up the good work and i hope no i wish
she will be safe and sound

Originally posted by silo13
If I saw something, I saw it, if I didn't, I didn't. No one trying to coerce me would change that.

This is not entirely accurate. When we deal with a situation hat involves more than one person, its very easy to taint what people saw or heard. In certain situations (traumatic event, car accident, kidnapping, bank robbery etc etc etc). This is one of the reasons we interview / question / interrogate / whatever by themselves.

People have a tendency, without even realizing it, to overhear other people talking about the same incident and incorporate some of that info in their version.

If a witness says she saw a male white 6'2 about 210lbs, approximately 35-40 years old, black hair etc and another person 2 2 overhear the description, they will inadvertently fill in their blanks with the other persons observations. People dont really think twice about it because to them the info is valid.

To the Police / PA the info can be an issue, because we end up with a witness who is giving an official statement in writing, on tape or on the stand. They are technically committing perjury because they are swearing the information they are providing is accurate.

If they had to use another persons account to fill their blanks in, it means they didn't witness it first hand, which means the defense will question the validity of the witnesses testimony in court, and would most likely move to have the testimony stricken / suppressed / impeached. That type of an incident is all that is needed for a jury to see reasonable doubt.

Their mindset is if this witness is not accurate in their testimony and what they "saw", then whats the possibility of other witnesses falling into the same boat.

The minefield that is our judicial system, even though people complain moan and groan about it, can take a single, trivial fact that someone got wrong and turn it into a not guilty verdict with added case law.

Remember - The truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Not the truth, the half truth, and whatever helps your client out.

I've been busy and didn't check back through the pages so if this has already been posted my bad -

Baby Lisa Case: America's Most wanted is on the case

KANSAS CITY, Mo. — It has been two months since now-one-year-old Lisa Irwin disappeared from her crib in her Northland home, and there still are few leads in the case. But now John Walsh of “America’s Most Wanted” has gotten involved in the case, and the family’s lawyer says that while they didn’t solicit the show’s assistance, they are glad for the help in keeping the case in the public eye.

FOX 4′s Macradee Aegerter is Working for You with more on how the case was profiled on the program on Friday night, along with some never-before-seen pictures of the child.

reply to post by silo13

I despise it to no end when people think they know what a child is thinking, feeling, etc. Children in their own home and care especially. To do so for a child none of us ever met? That really rubs me the wrong way. It's like the trend in this thread - the 'Lisa is a little angle in heaven next to God wishing her parents milk and honey, poor things.'
Now, while that may be true (and if she is gone I do believe she's in heaven) to apply a 'cherubic' attitude to her sweet pudgy cheeks is out and out nauseating.
In repetition - If you're going to give your OPINION of what Lisa MAY BE saying and doing, make it your opinion and knock yourself out with it. But make sure and make it obvious it's your opinion and NOT Lisa's words. For all we know (if she is gone) she's mad as all hell and hurt and feeling betrayed and heartbroken and hoping for revenge. Why not? She is her own soul and none of us should pretend to know what's going on 'in' that soul without validly stating we are basically 'pretending'.

There are a few who have implied what Lisa is thinking and feeling..example..

For all we know (if she is gone) she's mad as all hell and hurt and feeling betrayed and heartbroken and hoping for revenge.

The above has been implied more than once on this thread....and I find it difficult and nauseating that anyone could fathom her thinking and feeling that..especially against her parents.. who we have no proof of responsibility for death.

yes..for all we know..she is praying very hard for her parents, and family...and wanting justice to those who have put them through hell.

If her parents are innocent..I can only imagine the sorrow that poor little heart is going through. and how she feels about the ones that are so eager to blame them.

Ok KCPD want to talk with aunt and uncle of Deb. Is this Johnny Chivaraelletti I wonder? Anyway, note the lawyer's taking 'offense' at the idea police do not want Deb and Jeremy present when they interview the aunt and uncle. WHY on earth would they think they ahve the right to sit in on an interview with someone else?

www.youtube.com...

It will be interesting to see who and how this action is defended.

Sorry if I posted this before............ Lisa's command center closes.

www.kmbc.com...

Would you think that when such a dramatic step as closing the command center happens the parents might be vocally upset and feel that the kcpd is no longer looking as hard? Would you think they might be on the news saying ' oh no, how will they find her if they close this post? ' Or anything that even acknowledges you are aware your childs i nvestigation is growing cold? Or anything begging the public to keep on looking and praying and demanding action by police?

NOT if you're secretly glad the command post is closing because that means you are one step closer to getting away with something..........

John Walsh ......................"They should cooperate with police fully. They should do all the media they can and they should remember one thing - if they had nothing to do with their daughter's disappearance, they need to be the face of baby Lisa,"
"You keep searching if you have nothing to do with the disappearance of your child. You are there every day at the police station saying what can I do to get this baby back," Walsh said.

America's Most Wanted is now airing on Lifetime and is celebrating its 25th season.

www.kctv5.com...

I'm sure he has no idea what he's talking about . He's only been searching AND finding fugitives for as long as Deb's been alive almost .

" WHAT CAN I DO TO GET THIS BABY BACK "............ I wonder if that has been said even once, much less daily.

''For all we know (if she is gone) she's mad as all hell and hurt and feeling betrayed and heartbroken and hoping for revenge. ''''


''yes..for all we know..she is praying very hard for her parents, and family...and wanting justice to those who have put them through hell. ''

FOR ALL WE KNOW............... it's a tie !

Originally posted by schmae
''For all we know (if she is gone) she's mad as all hell and hurt and feeling betrayed and heartbroken and hoping for revenge. ''''


''yes..for all we know..she is praying very hard for her parents, and family...and wanting justice to those who have put them through hell. ''

FOR ALL WE KNOW............... it's a tie !

thats cute..a tie hunh?

I honestly think that she is praying for mercy.. and for repentance for the soul or souls responsible..as well as praying for the repentance of all souls in all matters.

I can't see a small child like that praying for revenge.. against her parents..guilty of an accident or not.

I only said that to "counter balance" the ridiculous notion that others had.

I can see children who have been made victims of child porn..and slaves to some very sic minds.. praying for justice and exposure..so that more children will are not made victims by these types.

There are children out there truly suffering.. and little is done about it...and it seems when people try, like the case of the lawyers in vancouver who tried to expose the child torture and killing, at a vancouver club..something bad happens to them.

If only people could band together in large numbers for this cause..without fear ..and know they have the back up of law enforcement behind them 100 %.

Only problem is ..there are many from the higher echelons of society that participate in these vile acts against children..and when you have supreme court judges, as well as top police officials belonging to the 'club", it is difficult to get exposure...and justice.

Babies Embrace Punishment Earlier Than Previously Thought, Study Suggests

ScienceDaily (Nov. 28, 2011) — Babies as young as eight months old prefer it when people who commit or condone antisocial acts are mistreated, a new study led by a University of British Columbia psychologist finds.

While previous research shows that babies uniformly prefer kind acts, the new study published Nov. 28 in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences suggests that eight month-old infants support negative behavior if it is directed at those who act antisocially -- and dislike those who are nice to bad guys.

"We find that, by eight months, babies have developed nuanced views of reciprocity and can conduct these complex social evaluations much earlier than previously thought," says lead author Prof. Kiley Hamlin, UBC Dept of Psychology, who co-authored the study with colleagues from Yale University and Temple University.

(click the bold line above to see the article at sciencedaily.com)

Researchers and psychologists are studying baby thought-processes, learning, comprehension, morality like never ever before....
for the last decade at the very least. There is much information out there about what our littlest members can and do understand -- and volumes of it is readily available. The notion that they had no "object permanence" (that a baby doesn't realize something they saw and is now removed still exists), for example, has been proven wrong.

This is not the thread for going into it all (though I love the subject of brain development), but I thought those curious and speculating about what Lisa might be thinking might find it some sort of guidance.

Babies and young children have the same range of emotions that adults do, and those emotions are raw, uncensored, and acutely felt. As they grow, if they are not taught the "names" of those emotions (you are angry! you are sad! you are frustrated, jealous, bored, etc etc) and validated (it's okay to be angry; it's your actions that you must control), and helped to adjust their behaviors away from violence and harming self or others, and toward resolution of those emotions, BIG problems can arise.

I'm sure many of you know people who are unable to identify their emotions, let alone act on them appropriately. Often the feelings get bottled up, causing disease and relational problems; which can lead to inflicting harm on oneself, or on others, and having problems functioning with work, school, friends, family, society, etc

These concepts are why it is so important to look at Deborah's upbringing, her own emotional health, and whether or not she was validated as a child, as a youth, as a bereft daughter...were her needs and emotions recognized and regarded with concern? Or was she taught (by the indifference or negative reactions of others) to suppress her emotions, to ignore them? To take them out on others, or block them, or act them out with violence or passive-aggressive behavior? We don't know. And her mom is no longer availabe for consultation (by her or us, for that matter).

It's crucial to remember that a mother who is not able to recognize, manage, and identify her own feelings will not be actively teaching her children how to do that. She can't. She doesn't have the skills...imagine a person who speaks ONLY English wanting their child to learn Arabic and thinking they can do it without learning Arabic first.

reply to post by wildtimes

ScienceDaily (Nov. 28, 2011) — Babies as young as eight months old prefer it when people who commit or condone antisocial acts are mistreated, a new study led by a University of British Columbia psychologist finds.

Interesting.. so a child that young would want people who are condoning or committing antisocial acts against their parents would want to see them mistreated.

yep..can see baby Lisa saying it.."leave the psycho analytical crap of my mother out of this.. or you will get whats coming to you.."..and "someday it may just be your turn for the whole world to analyze your life..and I hope you get mistreated in the process"..

reply to post by wildtimes


Nice find Wild !
Thinking on this I can verify that some of it is true. Not so much at 8 months, but in the toddling years I saw this in my own kids. Someone would be mean and they might say '' they need a spanking''... or something like this,,very young 2 or 3 years old. So that is the same thing.

'''I'm sure many of you know people who are unable to identify their emotions, let alone act on them appropriately. Often the feelings get bottled up, causing disease and relational problems; which can lead to inflicting harm on oneself, or on others, and having problems functioning with work, school, friends, family, society, etc '''

The entire industry of psychiatry and pharmaceuticals is dependant on this class of people. If they went away or became well, those 2 industries would fail and that can NOT happen. Too big to fail and all that

reply to post by schmae


Yup, it's fascinating stuff..babies have their own styles and personalities even before birth -- and immediately afterward. I worked in a neo-natal unit for a while, and it never ceased to amaze me how each newborn had their unique way of responding to the stimulation or lack thereof in their mothers' rooms or while in the unit with the docs and nurses.

It's a mother's job to recognize her child's style -- and adjust to it. For example, if a shop-til-you-drop mother takes a toddler to the mall and stays too long for the child's tolerance, it's likely the other shoppers will see the toddler lying on the floor kicking and yelling and refusing to go any further at some point. Message to mom: I've had enough and I want to stop. Mom then responds, either by validating and ending the shopping excursion, ignoring the tantrum, or swatting the kid and screaming at it to get up (or any other number of things). If, in the future, the mom wants her child to tolerate it better, there are ways to encourage that.

But this is not the venue nor the audience for that subject. Just thought some of the folks might be interested to know the current beliefs regarding babies.

reply to post by schmae

The entire industry of psychiatry and pharmaceuticals is dependant on this class of people. If they went away or became well, those 2 industries would fail and that can NOT happen. Too big to fail and all that

Not to mention attorneys, law enforcement, prisons and jails, etc. I wouldn't call them a "class of people" so much as a "mind-set cohort"....and representative of the dysfunctional aspects of human behavior in general. The numbers of those people is so enormous that our societies, in some very counterproductive and frightening ways, are forced to acknowledge them and deal with them (though ignoring them or shunning them would be preferable). Imagine all of the institutions and industries we could do without if everyone behaved civilly and with decorum and empathy for their fellow human beings. !!

But some people just don't, no matter how many times their behavior results in negative consequences or is pointed out to them as offensive. They just keep it up, and try to spread it around to as many people as they can. And there will always be others who will take advantage of that for their own gain, rather than trying to help and educate them without expecting anything in return.

www.nbcactionnews.com...

The FBI profiler points out the Irwins home..and how it indicated that the child was loved.. and well cared for.

You have to scroll down to the link called " Former FBI profiler describes home of Lisa Irwin"


Read more: www.nbcactionnews.com...

reply to post by wildtimes


Here's another problem and it will come around to on topic. How many regular general practitioner drs are prescribing psyche meds? They have no right and no knowledge of the person's mental capacity and are prescribing really heavy duty psychiatric pills for disorders they haven't studied. It should be a crime and actually I think it is, but one of those that drs get away with . I have folks I know who see a GP and get lithium, valium, etc etc from the same dr who looks in their ears to see if they have a cold coming on.
I wonder if Debs anti anxiety meds were prescribed bya PSYCHE or by a GP. The whole newer generation of give me the pill instead of me addressing and working on the problem causing my anx or depression or whatever is going to be very VERY bad news down the road. They have no coping skills literally and are reliant on chemicals to get through the day. What chance do they have? What chance to their children have? A mother who does not address her psyche problems and drowns them in pills and alcohol instead is probably lacking ina LOT of areas that are critical to good parenthood. Decision making and prioritizing being some of the first to come to mind !

reply to post by wildtimes

Imagine all of the institutions and industries we could do without if everyone behaved civilly and with decorum and empathy for their fellow human beings. !!

Wouldn't that be wonderful.. it would stop the attacks of calling people" ignorant trash".. especially in the sectors involving family counseling..

reply to post by schmae

Here's another problem and it will come around to on topic. How many regular general practitioner drs are prescribing psyche meds? They have no right and no knowledge of the person's mental capacity and are prescribing really heavy duty psychiatric pills for disorders they haven't studied.

You're right on track - and exactly why I wanted to know more about those prescription bottles atop the fridge in the picture of Lisa and Jeremy.

I wonder if Debs anti anxiety meds were prescribed bya PSYCHE or by a GP. The whole newer generation of give me the pill instead of me addressing and working on the problem causing my anx or depression or whatever is going to be very VERY bad news down the road. They have no coping skills literally and are reliant on chemicals to get through the day. What chance do they have? What chance to their children have? A mother who does not address her psyche problems and drowns them in pills and alcohol instead is probably lacking ina LOT of areas that are critical to good parenthood. Decision making and prioritizing being some of the first to come to mind !

And none of it may even be her fault! If she's been prescribed and is taking 'bad meds'!

Also something else to consider:

WATCH THIS!



This problem is not exclusive to 'foster children - but 'regular families' too! EVEN INFANTS are on these 'drugs'.

Another reason why I wanted to know what was in those med bottles. There are SO MANY questions those bottles could answer.

peace

www.shotsmag.co.uk...

Susan Smith.............

To the outside world she was a devoted mother and she wanted to appear like a devoted mother to the end.

Susan Smith hadn't enjoyed a life of stability. Instead, her father had committed suicide when she was a child and her mother had remarried. Moreover, young Susan had been repeatedly sexually abused. She'd taken an overdose at thirteen and another at eighteen and spent a week after her second suicide attempt in a mental health facility. But a year after her second overdose she married and by age twenty-two she had two children, had separated from her husband and was living an increasingly small life.

A mother who loves their child does not mean they would not harm their child.
Today is the first I heard of Susan Smith have a parent who committed suice and her own MENTAL problems. Her childhood sounds quite familiar,,,,,,,,,,