Open latter and warning from Tea Party to OWS

Originally posted by Observer99
The criminal elite can and will try to kill this movement, but ultimately they will only delay it. Unless they throw a magic switch to turn off the impending UTTER COLLAPSE of the dollar and US economy, these protests are only a pale shadow of what is to come.

END CORPORATISM.

That is the goal and the unifying cry which cannot be subverted. Just remember those 2 words, spread them as best you can, and don't let false communist manifestos distract you from the real fight.

Good post. Unfortunately, there are many who buy into the belief that a more powerful, centralized government will somehow beat the banks, corporations, and elites. What they fail to realize is that the banks, corporations, and elites are the ones who created big government and continue to own it. By creating more dependence on the American people, the OWS (at least most of the ones posting on ATS) seem to be fulfilling the aims of the global elite.

Your protests will NOT hurt any ultra rich bankers or any corporations for that matter. At least not as a whole. If BoA goes down, which they should, it will be counted a victory. But, really, Bear Stearns went down and how did that stop the global elite from advancing? It didn't. They will move their assets around a bit and let some of their bit players take a fall for the larger gain of their class and consolidation of power over the sheeple.

My fear is that OWS will attack the small business owners along with the multinational corps. This will do far more to destroy America and freedom than to help it. Those who make money via their own hard work and the work they create for others are the epitome of what this nation has been and should be about.

Socialism has never been a valid part of the American Dream or a part of anyone's vision who actually supports freedom of the individual. If OWS is about collectivism, no thanks. And that would write off any fantasies of "99%". If it isn't, then OWS needs to get someone out to better brand their cause.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

give me a break government had control senators frank and dodd and the hands on approach of control wealth was exactly lead to the crash that wasnt a crash it was a buying oportunity.

dirt cheap prices made millionaires and billionaires. government control and their regulations is exactly the problem.

fanny and freddy and their creation of mres led to that so called "Crisis" and what was the result of it a new dodd frank ammendment which added more power and control.

make the situtation to take more power and control and those ows and their defenders are going yes more please.


give me a break.

Exactly why the Tea Party was open to becoming a mainstream corporatist movement, case in point
Neo's take on history.

The CRISIS, wasn't a "crisis" it was a buying opportunity, not much different than a walk in the park really.

Business is a sacred cow to righties, while government, is viewed as a tool for business to
be owned and bought by private wealth. OWS has an Anti banking mentality, there is no penchant towards the private sector, it is against a segment of the private sector.

reply to post by mastahunta


yeah it was a buying opportunity for obama and the lefties who bought gm,chrysler,fanny and freddy

and and solyndra and lightsquared and the billions still being thrown at green CORPORATIONS.


yeah those evil righties BS.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Regulations need to protect the most vulnerable of society and should never be laxed. Without this crucial item there is no protections from scrupulous and nefarious business practices leaving the average American out in the cold without a lifeline.

reply to post by mastahunta


OWS is not against capitalism per say, their quarrel is with the lack of protections and regulations!

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


Wow, "scrupulous and nefarious"? WHo does your scripting? And you accuse Neo of being a shill for some ideology. If you trust government that much, there's not much I can say except that I hope for this movement's sake, that OWS is not that naive.
And it appears, at least from the posts on this thread, that OWS is the enemy of everything the United States has always stood for.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


I agree with you to a very limited extent.

I currently work for the government in Healthcare Regulation. At least half of what we do is either redundant, toothless, or un-needed. Actually, I'm currently working on a paper for both work and school which will explore the need or lack of need in healthcare consumer protections such as licensing, continuing education, etc.

Do we really need to license massage therapists or prosthetic makers? Do they really pose any harm to the public? Wouldn't civil remedies and free-market automatically run the bad ones out of business without any lasting harm to a "victim?"

On the other hand, MD's should definitely be vetted, tested, re-tested, and required to stay current on technology and innovation. But is it effective? There are still plenty of MD's out there taking advantage of patients and making bad decisions based more on greed than healthcare.

There is a sliver of areas that the government should have a responsibility, but I'd estimate it is less than 30% of where they currently intrude ineffectively.

Imagine cutting 70% of the government interference, still protecting the public, cleaning up the budgets, and allowing mom and pop to actually compete with the big corps! That is a better world! That is the direction we must head!!

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
OWS will not ever sell out to Corporate America the same way the Tea groups did. The Tea Group sold their souls to the banks and TPTB and the Tea group ain't never staged a multi week sit in/occupation!

OWS represents America while the Tea'rs is a shill for and owned by the banks and put into power to do the bidding of the banks!

No, they just sold out to Big Unions thats all, took what 15 days?

I honestly believe it was a union movement all along. The right has regularly pushed the Overton Window (never let a good crisis go to waste) to the right. So bring in some people who look and sound waaaaaay too far to the left and then let the unions resolve the problem as the middle ground voice of reason.
Overton window successfully moved.

And, in that regard I am okay with it. I don't like the protest but we could use a bit more (caveat: functional) union representation in this country.

(I shall now likely be hated from all sides. This would serve as a strong indication that I am right!)

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by mastahunta

 

yeah it was a buying opportunity for obama and the lefties who bought gm,chrysler,aig,fanny and freddy

and and solyndra and lightsquared and the billions still being thrown at green CORPORATIONS.


yeah those evil righties BS.

FYI

Obama

DOESN'T OWN ANY OF THOSE THINGS

The problem is Neo, you say anything and act like it is the truth, then I get to
spend 3 pages discussing your fake, made up stories, you've learned from
Television.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by mastahunta

 

OWS is not against capitalism per say, their quarrel is with the lack of protections and regulations!

I am OWS and I am NOT anti capitalist or anti business, I am for fairly regulating the biggest business sectors,
while I am for loosening regulations for business's that do not impact the whole of society.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

I agree with you to a very limited extent.

I currently work for the government in Healthcare Regulation. At least half of what we do is either redundant, toothless, or un-needed. Actually, I'm currently working on a paper for both work and school which will explore the need or lack of need in healthcare consumer protections such as licensing, continuing education, etc.

Do we really need to license massage therapists or prosthetic makers? Do they really pose any harm to the public? Wouldn't civil remedies and free-market automatically run the bad ones out of business without any lasting harm to a "victim?"

On the other hand, MD's should definitely be vetted, tested, re-tested, and required to stay current on technology and innovation. But is it effective? There are still plenty of MD's out there taking advantage of patients and making bad decisions based more on greed than healthcare.

There is a sliver of areas that the government should have a responsibility, but I'd estimate it is less than 30% of where they currently intrude ineffectively.

Imagine cutting 70% of the government interference, still protecting the public, cleaning up the budgets, and allowing mom and pop to actually compete with the big corps! That is a better world! That is the direction we must head!!

getreadyalready,
Thank you for your reason, rationality, and civility on this thread. I could use a lesson. And, of course, you are correct. I don't believe in absolutes, either.
Less government actually equals less opportunity for corporations to run things. Big Gov = Big Corps. They come hand in hand. Keep the Constitution as is, Minimize the federal government, more freedom to the states, and the intelligent states will allow more sovereignty to their city and county governments.

reply to post by getreadyalready


By the creation of a certification or licensing system you are able to weed out fraud, Prosthetic makers need oversight to make sure that the facilities where these are made is safe and sanitary for the work and to make sure the materials used to cast the contraption don't cause a rash or be subjected to breaking under regular wear and tear and it gives the people some sort of assurance knowing that the item they just got will help them and not break and cause an injury making their already compromised situation be worser off.

Cutting 70% of interferrence as you put it would only encourage them to hold out for a total non interferrence and when that occurs the people will be defenseless and be left out in the cold.

Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

I agree with you to a very limited extent.

I currently work for the government in Healthcare Regulation. At least half of what we do is either redundant, toothless, or un-needed. Actually, I'm currently working on a paper for both work and school which will explore the need or lack of need in healthcare consumer protections such as licensing, continuing education, etc.

Do we really need to license massage therapists or prosthetic makers? Do they really pose any harm to the public? Wouldn't civil remedies and free-market automatically run the bad ones out of business without any lasting harm to a "victim?"

I very make agree with the above, totally...

Now, should a nuclear power company be allowed to lease the municipal park and build a processing
plant?

I have a feeling that NEO would close his eyes because the word regulation has been brought up,
while you would understand the idea behind regulating such an endeavor.

On the other hand, MD's should definitely be vetted, tested, re-tested, and required to stay current on technology and innovation. But is it effective? There are still plenty of MD's out there taking advantage of patients and making bad decisions based more on greed than healthcare.

There is a sliver of areas that the government should have a responsibility, but I'd estimate it is less than 30% of where they currently intrude ineffectively.

I agree with you again... Problem is, the pro business faction of politicians, as a matter of course
will sneak in all kinds of goodies won't they.

Imagine cutting 70% of the government interference, still protecting the public, cleaning up the budgets, and allowing mom and pop to actually compete with the big corps! That is a better world! That is the direction we must head!!

I agree, mostly... but case in point... The deregulation of WallStreet in 1999 was said to open up new markets and
positions for the little guys... What we see is that it was ALL engineered to instigate the little firms
to perpetrate one leg of the fraud for the big guys, while other parts of the deregulation allowed the
big guys to sell and trade the fraudulent products.

reply to post by mastahunta


Nuclear processing plants should not be built in a public park but deregulate it and watch one spring up right next door to your kids school, the park or the shopping mall you work in.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


I respectfully disagree.

The government is inspecting these places yearly, hopefully, usually less. There is very little actual protection for the public, but there is a restriction on who goes into business. Some of the best makers are run out of business by the government.

If there is a bad product, a rash, or a minor injury are going to be remedied by a civil suit, and poor reviews, and less customers. The government isn't likely to discipline a licensee for the occasional poor product or oversight, and if they do discipline them, it will be fines to the government, it won't help the consumer in any manner.

Surgeons? They need tight regulation and stiff penalties.
Colored Contacts at the Flea Market? What a waste of government time! Buyer Beware.
Massage? You ever hear of someone injured by a massage? It is either good or bad, free market will dictate.

What about making a contractor be licensed? Why? Isn't there already a building code and a building inspector to approve the work? Redundant!

What about a landscaper? To mow lawns in my town takes 3 licenses (city, county, state), liability insurance, worker's comp coverage, a FEIN#, a filing with the State Div of Corps, and God-forbid you want to use a name other than your own. That is an additional 2 filings for fictitious names. Now, if you pay someone else to help you, you have invited in the IRS, Dept of Labor, OSHA, and others. Now suppose you hauled off some yard waste, you need a permit for hauling, a commercial license, an approval from EPA and DEP depending on where you dispose it.

And we wonder why more people don't go into business? And I typed this quickly, I'm sure I haven't hit upon everything. This is no exaggeration, in fact, this is a conservative account of what I went through to haul a trailer around and mow lawns and build privacy fences a few years ago.

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

in my opinion their "goals" can only be achieved by government and we have all have enough of better living through government which has created all the problems we face.

yeah i do simplify things in my world there are no shades of gray in my opinion thats part of the problem.

also think most sane people will agree that government spending needs to be cut but makes the point of the ows protests whatever they want can only be achieved by greater spending and more power and control.

hence more of the same.

edit on 4-10-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

I'm with you Neo. The students want their college loans forgiven which means that someone has to absorb the cost. Do they think the lenders are just gonna say ok sure we will take billion dollar hits on our finances.If gteh govt pays for them then the taxpayers pick up the tab and that is redistribution of the wealth and big govt.

Other demands are some kinda feminist thing that harkens back to the days of ERA, so maybe they wanna force women into the military...or they want to legislate salary, which is more communism.
Thats just off the top of my head for the demands.

They want more regulations on the finance sector, which will probably end up just being more ways the banks can control stuff, and also Big Govt.

reply to post by jibeho

With funding coming from George Soros and assistance and warm bodies coming from Big Labor (which spends more money politically than all major groups combined). I have to say that this movement has already been astroturfed. They have been organized by paid professionals and anonymous account holders on twitter.

Oh brother, more BS from Jibeho. Prove where Soros paid one dime to fund OWS. He made one comment on one program that he sympathizes with them, and you twist that into "Soros is funding OWS" - I guess that is how the right-wing idiocracy is now trying to undermine OWS with lame aspersions like this.

reply to post by getreadyalready


Declaw Government and it will be the Wild West all over again. Without regulations the item that caused the rash would be allowed as currently no product can be sold, marketed or manufactured that does not do what it's label advertises it to do.

The Consumer Protection Safety Council in 08 levied heavy fines against Mattel for allowing lead infested toys to be sold. Without regulations your kids toys could be made with lead, mercury, acid and break without no resistance and be allowed to be sold.

When mortgage institutions sold off mortgages they were effectively "double dipping" by accepting money for a service they themselves had no ownership of. Double Dipping is illegal.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus

Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by getreadyalready

 

in my opinion their "goals" can only be achieved by government and we have all have enough of better living through government which has created all the problems we face.

yeah i do simplify things in my world there are no shades of gray in my opinion thats part of the problem.

also think most sane people will agree that government spending needs to be cut but makes the point of the ows protests whatever they want can only be achieved by greater spending and more power and control.

hence more of the same.

edit on 4-10-2011 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

I'm with you Neo. The students want their college loans forgiven which means that someone has to absorb the cost.

So, the Tea Party wants poor and uninsured people to resort to the heeling power of good luck.

Do they think the lenders are just gonna say ok sure we will take billion dollar hits on our finances.If gteh govt pays for them then the taxpayers pick up the tab and that is redistribution of the wealth and big govt.

Well, those kids are governing to have to pay for the debt that those banks accrue and pass on
onto the government via the debt obligation that is born with each dollar. The entire banking
system is a redistribution of wealth. Both are absurd, however I would rather pay for education
than debt service on fiat money creation... Who's the crazy person here buddy?

Other demands are some kinda feminist thing that harkens back to the days of ERA, so maybe they wanna force women into the military...or they want to legislate salary, which is more communism.
Thats just off the top of my head for the demands.

????

They want more regulations on the finance sector, which will probably end up just being more ways the banks can control stuff, and also Big Govt.

No offense, but if a righty writes the regulation it's a guarantee

Originally posted by mastahunta

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
reply to post by mastahunta

 

OWS is not against capitalism per say, their quarrel is with the lack of protections and regulations!

I am OWS and I am NOT anti capitalist or anti business, I am for fairly regulating the biggest business sectors,
while I am for loosening regulations for business's that do not impact the whole of society.

And who is going to be making all these decisions? Based on what legislation? We will be tied up with regulatiosn than people know how to enforce. The FDA is so effective that it lets aspartame be approved even though it is a known excitotixin. More Govt bureacracy doesn't necessarily make things better.