What made you first suspect that these 9/11 conspiracy stories were false?

Originally posted by rogerstigers
Personally, I have an issue with it because it expects me to believe that an airliner can be flown a mere few feet above the ground for several 100s of feet by an unexperienced pilot without hitting the ground.. I just have a hard time accepting that.

You mean sort of like this?



I don't know where the weird myth came from that passenger jets lumbered around like world war one battleships or that it's some weird violation of physics for them to be able to fly only feet above the ground. They can and will, regardless of whether you wish to believe it or not, so at the end of the day all your'e doing is arguing that inexperienced pilots are incapable of crashing a plane.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Being an employee that regularly flies on fixed wing and rotor wing aircraft...that is some crazy flying! Great flic!

reply to post by GoodOlDave


Wow! Now that is going to be hard for the conspiracy guys to deny.

Good show, good show, and chalk one more up for true physics over armchair physics.

Awww come on guys......you know that video just has to be a hoax. I mean we ALL know that airplanes cannot fly close to the ground....let alone CRASH...because of ground effect.....

reply to post by GoodOlDave
Well Dave, if everyone of your supporters only voted once, then that means that a grand total of seven people are buying your bullsh*t. Keep posting, you and your contributions are the hunt for truths best friend.

Originally posted by dillweed
reply to post by GoodOlDave

 

Well Dave, if everyone of your supporters only voted once, then that means that a grand total of seven people are buying your bullsh*t. Keep posting, you and your contributions are the hunt for truths best friend.

Good grief, Dillweed, do you have absolutely nothing to offer here on ATS except insults and flame bait? I just finished posting an animation based upon presented evidence that it really was flight 77 that hit the Pentagon, and I just finished posting a film clip proving that a passenger jet can fly with greater maneuverability than how all these self declared aeronautical engineers here are claiming. If what I'm posting here is a lie then please have the dignity of explaining exactly why it is a lie. "Put up or shut up" as the saying goes.

Here's your chance on a silver platter to point out how everything I'm saying is false, and instead, you simply claim "it's a pack of lies" before running away giggling like a ten year old. I shouldn't need to tell you this only hurts your credibility, not mine or anyone else's.

Thanks for letting me use a silver platter for my response. In case you misunderstood what I said, everything you post is a lie, or a variation of that lie, because you believe the official story of the events of that day. What you continue to defend as truth has been questioned, and until I see someone other than you explain these deficiencies, I will continue to piss on anything you have to offer. If what you have to defend over and over were true, there would be no need for this conversation. So, run along now Dave, the grown-ups have some business to take care of.

Originally posted by dillweed
Thanks for letting me use a silver platter for my response. In case you misunderstood what I said, everything you post is a lie, or a variation of that lie, because you believe the official story of the events of that day. What you continue to defend as truth has been questioned, and until I see someone other than you explain these deficiencies, I will continue to piss on anything you have to offer. If what you have to defend over and over were true, there would be no need for this conversation. So, run along now Dave, the grown-ups have some business to take care of.

Quoted for truth.

Now dont come tell me this post is short-useless, I see worse posts here every hour I spend around.

Originally posted by dillweed
Thanks for letting me use a silver platter for my response. In case you misunderstood what I said, everything you post is a lie, or a variation of that lie, because you believe the official story of the events of that day. What you continue to defend as truth has been questioned, and until I see someone other than you explain these deficiencies, I will continue to piss on anything you have to offer. If what you have to defend over and over were true, there would be no need for this conversation. So, run along now Dave, the grown-ups have some business to take care of.

Good grief, you are certainly one of the more childish people I've seen here on ATS. I'm specifically asking you to show how anything I'm saying is a lie, and all you're doing is saying "I'm a liar" over and over. In case it hasn't occurred to you...and apparently it hasn't...until you can specifically show how anything I'm saying is a lie, your accusations are nothing but the childish ranting of an adolescent that isn't getting his way. You know you're LOSING this debate, but you can't offer any further rational argument so you need to resort to insults to soothe your bruised ego. You might as well call me a "poopy head" and be done with it.

I'm not here to be your friend, dude; I'm here to show why those damned fool conspiracy web sites you're getting all your information from are lying to you. If you think what I'm saying is a lie, fine, you can start with the last video I posted which showed a pilot controlling a large passenger jet with even more maneuverability and with even tighter turn radius than the supposed "impossible" flight path the hijackers took. Why is this a lie? If your next post contains anything other than an answer to that question, then don't bother posting, 'cause I'm not going to waste any more of my time on this foolishness because I don't want my posts getting yanked by the moderators over your bad manners.

I swear, my insulting your mother wouldn't instigate as much raw irrational hatred out of you truthers as my criticising your beloved conspiracy stories does. Incredible.

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reply to post by GoodOlDave
Nice try, Dave. My mother abandoned me. When you come up with something new let us know, otherwise do me a favor and just tell your friend(s). What part of 'it's all a lie', don't you understand?

Originally posted by Saltarello
We know you lie because is what you do, lie and smear the whole 9/11 truth movement, while trying to instill your fairytaler theories. Why dont you prove some of the krap you spew on every second thread? Ah sorry, as you are a fairytaler that endorses the OS you have nothing to prove.
Yeh protect your posts, dont let the truthers turn them into reality checks for the fairytalers.

I do prove "the krap I spew on every second thread". The question is, what's the point of you people insisting on proof when you've built for yourselves a cottage industry of manufacturing excuses for why you shouldn't need to believe it?

The NYC fire department is in on the conspiracy. The NYC police are in on the conspiracy. The NYPA is in on the conspiracy. The Red Cross is in on the conspiracy. Silverstein is in on the conspiracy. The 9/11 commission is in on the conspiracy. The ground zero workers are in on the conspiracy. The FAA is in on the conspiracy. NIST and FEMA are in on the conspiracy. NORAD and NATO are in on the conspiracy. The US military is in on the conspiracy. MIT and Purdue are in on the conspiracy. The CIA and FBI are in on the conspiracy. Clinton, Bush, and Obama are all in on the conspiracy. Congress is in on the conspiracy. All US media outlets are in on the conspiracy. The BBC is in on the conspiracy. Al Jazeera is in on the conspiracy. Every eyewitness around the Pentagon is in on the conspiracy. Dylan Avery and Morgan Reynolds are in on the conspiracy. Judy Wood is in on the conspiracy. Of COURSE you're going to think I'm in on the conspiracy, too. The only person on the face of the planet who isn't in on the conspiracy is apparently you.

reply to post by Saltarello


It has nothing to do with the site going the "government way" and everything to do with the personal attack you posted that had nothing to do with the topic of the thread.


As to the topic of the thread, I was leery of conspiracy theories from the moment that I first saw Thierry Messyan's work that started the 9/11 "Truth" movement.

Dp removed

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by Saltarello
We know you lie because is what you do, lie and smear the whole 9/11 truth movement, while trying to instill your fairytaler theories. Why dont you prove some of the krap you spew on every second thread? Ah sorry, as you are a fairytaler that endorses the OS you have nothing to prove.
Yeh protect your posts, dont let the truthers turn them into reality checks for the fairytalers.

I do prove "the krap I spew on every second thread". The question is, what's the point of you people insisting on proof when you've built for yourselves a cottage industry of manufacturing excuses for why you shouldn't need to believe it?

The NYC fire department is in on the conspiracy. The NYC police are in on the conspiracy. The NYPA is in on the conspiracy. The Red Cross is in on the conspiracy. Silverstein is in on the conspiracy. The 9/11 commission is in on the conspiracy. The ground zero workers are in on the conspiracy. The FAA is in on the conspiracy. NIST and FEMA are in on the conspiracy. NORAD and NATO are in on the conspiracy. The US military is in on the conspiracy. MIT and Purdue are in on the conspiracy. The CIA and FBI are in on the conspiracy. Clinton, Bush, and Obama are all in on the conspiracy. Congress is in on the conspiracy. All US media outlets are in on the conspiracy. The BBC is in on the conspiracy. Al Jazeera is in on the conspiracy. Every eyewitness around the Pentagon is in on the conspiracy. Dylan Avery and Morgan Reynolds are in on the conspiracy. Judy Wood is in on the conspiracy. Of COURSE you're going to think I'm in on the conspiracy, too. The only person on the face of the planet who isn't in on the conspiracy is apparently you.

Funny you mention the first responders and ground zero workers, wich are being denied care for the condition they got from working there, when "it was safe" to be there.
Funny thing is, it wont help you to try putting all the eggs in one basket, thats we focus on building 7 and the pentacon, so you dont really have to disprove 1 theory, but some. If you or your kind realy had some backbone this issue and discussion would be over by now, but your futile efforts at covering and smearing are not working now are they?
As said, the more you try bashing the truth, the more the people starts looking into it, and really, with half a brain youd start seeing the incosistencies and "miracles" of the OS, so I must say, thank you.

reply to post by GoodOlDave


This is a case of apples and oranges.

This is an airshow who do they allow to pilot their aircraft at air shows ?
Some random person in the audience ?


The video is obviously of an Airbus test pilot piloting the craft, and flying over a runway at that.
Meaning minimal turbulence.

If he is trusted to fly at air shows then he is most likely one of the more experienced pilots on that aircraft and is why he is flying at airshows.

This is in contrast to some supposed gifted hijacker/pilot who not only couldn't even pass a check ride flying a basic Cessna 172 trainer aircraft but pulled off these types of maneuvers in a 757 aircraft in which he had no prior experience in except for in a simulator ?

Airplanes fly completely different from Jet aircraft in that due to their weight they have a much poorer glide ratio. Meaning that they drop like a rock unless you know what you are doing and keep the engines spooled up correctly.

Dropping in from that altitude after a 270 banking descent is what made me first suspect that these 911 Fallacies were false. Simply from a perspective of pilotry.

Since most of us possess a driver's license....

The maneuvers supposedly pulled off by Hani Hanjour. is analogous to any of us performing a handbrake parallel parking maneuver with our very own cars.

After having performed it first on a driving simulator such as Gran Turismo or Forza !

reply to post by Saltarello


Funny you mention the first responders. From the evening of 9/11 on, workers were encouraged to at a minimum wear dust masks, and many chose not to. A couple years ago, they did a survey and found that those who admitted never or rarely wearing the masks, had more respiratory issues. Not suggesting the the air was completely safe by any stretch of imagination, but, if someone says to wear a mask...and you chose not to...........

reply to post by nh_ee

And another stunning fail....

Because the very man who would not rent an airplane to Hani Hanjour is also on record as saying that in his professional opinion,Hani had all the skill necessary to fly a plane into the Pentagon.......

Originally posted by GoodOlDave

Originally posted by NWOwned
We must demand they prove their OS claims.

Prove a 757 hit the Pentagon... FOR REAL and not just say it, not just show obviously doctored and 'staged' post crash photos.

It's a fair question. Here's a compilation of eyewitnesses who were there and who personally saw the plane hit the Pentagon...

Eyewitnesses to the Pentagon attack

...and here is the best simulation I've seen of the attack and presents the evidence on which it is based...

So, right now are you thinking, "hey wait a minute, those damned fool conspiracy web sites never told me about any of this!" or, are you simply going to accuse all the witnesses of being secret government agents and all the evidence manufactured and planted? If it's the former, congratulations, you're starting to think for yourself, and if it's the latter, then why are you wasting my time asking for proof when you're simply going to invent whatever reason you need to for why you don't have to believe it?

...the curious incident of the dog in the night-time...

Colonel Ross still wore an expression which showed the poor opinion which he had formed of my companion's ability, but I saw by the inspector's face that his attention had been keenly aroused.

"You consider that to be important?" he [Inspector Gregory] asked.

"Exceedingly so."

"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"

"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."

"The dog did nothing in the night-time."

"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.

The Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes (1893)
Inspector Gregory and Sherlock Holmes in "Silver Blaze" (Doubleday p. 346-7)

------

...the curious incident of the smoke trail over the Pentagon lawn on 9/11...

Colonel Ross still wore an expression which showed the poor opinion which he had formed of NWOwned's ability, but I saw by GoodOlDave's face that his attention had been keenly aroused.

"You consider that to be important?" he [Dave] asked.

"Exceedingly so."

"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"

"To the curious incident of the smoke trail over the Pentagon lawn on 9/11."

"But NOT A SINGLE EYE WITNESS even mentioned a smoke trail over the Pentagon lawn on 9/11."

"That is the curious incident," remarked NWOwned.


Cheers