The Declaration of the Occupation of New York City

Perhaps it would be ore accurate to say that we failed to establish control of the governance that allowed this behavior to persist, rather than being assimilated into it.

Originally posted by Maxmars

Perhaps it would be ore accurate to say that we failed to establish control of the governance that allowed this behavior to persist, rather than being assimilated into it.

edit on 1-10-2011 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)

No, it wouldn't be. Because (never start a sentence with because unless you care not what grammar nazis think) the operative inference is that there was a choice on behalf of the public.

I hate to be that guy but when education is designed to either create rock stars or just convey enough for a machinist to perform his job, despite the capacity to think beyond just that, then there is a possibility that society has set itself up for failure.

Seriously, education is the biggest problem here and I know many people who can talk with the big boys and I know several big boys who don't have a clue what they be talking about..

Besides...where is failure even a relevant consideration when we see what 'everyday' people are doing with access to information and instant communication?

There are many assumptions we have had pre-internet because there was no communication and they should be squashed inside of a decade...I am not imploring, merely estimating...

reply to post by StarPeace


FEAR

That's all you're doing is sitting on here and spreading it.

Get your ass out there and do something.

reply to post by TheThirdAdam


Who gives a flying # what they support?

They're out there, they're speaking out and they're doing what most people on ATS lack the guts to do.

You people complain about Wall Street, complain about Obama, complain about "socialism" (which this protest has NOTHING to do with..it's all in your goddamn heads!) and complain about just about everything under the sun.

Sure, people on ATS supported the Arab Spring but when a group of Americans try to speak out? They're labeled as socialists.

What the hell is wrong with this country? This is the kind of chaos we need.

Forget about Ron Paul. The people out there protesting don't have time to worry about him. They're going to speak out anyway!

reply to post by The Sword


Could you tell me then, how this isn't about socialism?

reply to post by TheThirdAdam


Could you open your mind a little more than usual?

Or everything socialist to you? Cold war mentality?

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by TheThirdAdam

 

Could you open your mind a little more than usual?

Or everything socialist to you? Cold war mentality?

we are a socialist country. so what the person is doing is not noticing what is already here, and using it to scare people into thinking it's still coming. i call that a double feint

the threat of what's coming is not socialism, but communism. the person either doesn't realize that, or is putting up a smoke screen so we're still thinking we're in a capitalist country, when we haven't been for several decades now. this has a dual purpose of blaming capitalism for anything that goes wrong while taking over the planet in the name of socialism (democratic socialism), which is a skip hop and a jump from communism and genocides unlike any seen in the history of humankind.

now quit playing footsies with the faker over there, who's helping you pretend this isn't already a socialist country, and come talk to me, the real person you need to address. cause that ain't socialism brewing in nyc, that's communism brewing in nyc

I looked at their "grievences" and have read more than a few of the reasons for the protests. Lots of talk about "todays youth" and "rights" and what people deserve.

Frankly, the whole lot, for the most part, want to blame someone else for their shortcomings and failures.

It's the bank's fault that I lost my house... Who applied for the loan? Who signed the contract and mortage knowing the terms? Who didn't make payments and lost the house?

I have bought and sold properties... it is not like buying a happy meal, you have to put some thought into it and realize that their are consequences if you don't hold up your end of the deal.

It's the bank's fault or the government's fault that I have too much student loan debt. Really... did you pursue all the options when you were looking to finance college? I went to college...my folks paid a portion, I worked to pay my portion, and I got student loans to cover the rest...usually, the loan repayments are reasonavble and you have a decent amount of time to pay them back...I paid mine back early.

But things were cheaper back then! OK.. but pay sucked too and I was making 3.25 an hour too...when I went to full time I was making 5.45 an hour...wow. My daughter is in college and about to graduate...she made it through with scholarships, grants, help from her dad...me, and working...no loans... She went the first two years to community college in state and transferred the credits her Junior year to a regular in state 4 year school. It can be done....

Women's equality in the workplace...really? My wife makes more than I do. Many, if not most, of my contemporaries are women...managers and asst managers. In my previous work experience, about half of my bosses and supervisors have been women....I don't know, maybe I missed something here.

Poisoning of foods.Grant you, I am not a fan of GMOs...I don't like all the hybridization and genetic alteration of our food sources. So...I moved to the country and grow my own. Many can't go to the country...so go to the farmer's markets, look at packaging...there is a vast availability of organic and natural foods out there. Even the grocery stores in rural...and I mean rural... southside VA and NC have organic sections...or grow your own...in planters and patio gardens.

Children shouldn't have to choose between an education and food...ok, but my father did and my mother...and my other relatives that grew up during the Depression and WWII. All the kids I know of have the opportunity to go to public schools...and get free or reduced lunches...my dad worked on the farm and never finished the 6th grade...He and my mother are retired now...comfortably so and doing well...after working for it.

But schools aren't as good as they used to be. Really? How about a little effort on the part of the child and parents...maybe a card at the public library....some extra reading... a few vacation visits to some historical sights... maybe cut out some of the TV and video games. Read a book...or use the internet. My daughter went to public school...is graduating college with honors.

But the poor can't afford the internet...it's free at the public libraries here in NC.

But both parents work now a days. Both my parents worked in a factory...left at 630am and came home about 430-5pm... sometimes they worked overtime...my brother and I stayed at a daycare... or with my aunt.

See, the biggest problem and common factor in all of these complaints and "grievences" is effort on the part of the individual... do something about it yourself to improve your lot in life. Work for it.

My parents told me many times..." No one owes you anything, and no one is going to give you anything...so if you want it, you have to work for it."

But many of todays youth come from a culture where no one loses, no one is cut from the ball team..."we don't have people that lose, everyone is a winner." Then they get out in the real world where every thing is not always equal, where sometimes you do lose, where sometimes you have to put in the extra effort...and then suddenly..."This isn't fair."..."This is too hard."...so it must be a conspiracy or discrimination or a ploy by the powers that be to hold me down.

Don't play that game. Make your life, you have the ability to excell. Here in the USA, if you want to sit on the couch and eat Doritos all day and watch TV...go for it. If you want to go out and work or make work and work 10-12-14 hours a day...go for it.

But don't complain to me if you have nothing after doing nothing and I have something after doing something... that was your choice.... and your responsibility.

reply to post by AlreadyGone


How can you blame the "Youth" for their short comings and failures. They are young only been around a few years, many not even old enough to vote. Yet you want to blame the young people for the fact they have no future. You want to expunge your own responsibility and that of your own generation for being the greedy ones who have taken all the benefits from society and left the youth with nothing. You want to talk about the blame game, yet you blame young people. Maybe you should take a look in the mirror if your looking to blame someone.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by AlreadyGone

 

How can you blame the "Youth" for their short comings and failures. They are young only been around a few years, many not even old enough to vote. Yet you want to blame the young people for the fact they have no future. You want to expunge your own responsibility and that of your own generation for being the greedy ones who have taken all the benefits from society and left the youth with nothing. You want to talk about the blame game, yet you blame young people. Maybe you should take a look in the mirror if your looking to blame someone.

the definition of who is greedy, is the problem. currently, the puppet masters want our youth to believe, that the working class who pay the taxes for the social programs, are at fault. how is that even statisically possible? if you pay for programs to improve the lives of others, you aren't creating the problem. if senior citizens paid all their lives into what boils down to an insurance program, only to be told the money has all been spent on other things and alas, cannot be repaid to them, are at fault, you might want to address them directly, instead of indirectly hinting at it.

no, this is a classic switcheroo. they want our youth to think we dropped the ball because we didn't stop the government from getting out of control, but AND HERE'S THE CLINCHER, it isn't the social programs they want to get rid of, so how is this the fault of the people who've been paying out the taxes to support the social programs they want in the first place?. it's orwellian double speak at its finest.

the puppet masters, who are expert at public manipulation, want the youth of today to blame the people who have been paying for all their social programs. it's mind boggling.

reply to post by woodwardjnr


So who took the future away from my daughter...she is just graduating college next spring. Who made her go out and work....that was her idea...not mine, I wanted her to concentrate on school.

Most of the protestors I have seen are adults...young adults, but adults. Capable and able to work.

Who took the youth from my uncles in 1941-42-43?

Who took the youth from my mom's baby brother in 1967?

They all came back and led good lives...a few are still here living good lives.

What did I take from the protestors in NY City? An opportunity to read a book for free at the library...the opportunity to read another book after that. The opportunity to go to a community college or tech school and learn a skill that they could actually use in life?

What did I take from the protestors in NY City...the opportunity to go to night school and learn a new skill after they found the degree they had was useless...I did that at 38.

What meal am I not providing with my tax dollars for FoodStamps, WIC? How many mouths have I not tried to feed at food banks I have volunteered at, or meals i have delivered, or meals I have donated, or boxes of food freely given through my church to the needy...who did my greedy capitalist self deny?

What part of a contract did I make them skim over? What opportunity to move to where the jobs aredid I stand in the way of? My older kids have no problem working...one worked in Montana and one is in Vermont...they moved from NC...

Again...it takes effort on the part of the individual...as an American, you have the right to Life, Liberty, and the PURSUIT of Happiness...PURSUIT...effort of the individual to obtain the life they choose that makes them happy.

reply to post by AlreadyGone


you aren't a capitalist, you're a socialist. they are just trying to make you feel bad because you aren't a communist. this is the trick to the whole thing.

reply to post by undo


I guess we could argue...but why?

I make things and grow things and sell them for a profit...sounds capitalist to me.

I just put up signs infront of my farm...goats for sell..firewood for sale....turnip salad for sale...

Already have sold some, made some money, have 2 messages on the answer machine...and this has only been 3 days... socialism at work? Sounds capitalist to me.

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
reply to post by undo

 

I guess we could argue...but why?

I make things and grow things and sell them for a profit...sounds capitalist to me.

I just put up signs infront of my farm...goats for sell..firewood for sale....turnip salad for sale...

Already have sold some, made some money, have 2 messages on the answer machine...and this has only been 3 days... socialism at work? Sounds capitalist to me.

you work and pay half your income or close to it, in taxes to support social programs. that's socialism. if you were a capitalist you wouldn't pay your money in taxes at all. you'd instead use your money however you wanted, although that might include doing charitable deeds (Defined here as non-forced socialism). you live in a socialist country, portrayed as a capitalist country, so that it can force socialism on the planet, at the point of a gun, and blame capitalism for it.

ingenious plan, working pretty well so far. the thing they don't teach people in school is that communism requires a source of income as it grows as well, outside its own workers. it does this in the same way that they claim "capitalism" is doing. which is like bass ackwards. capitalism is the pursuit of happiness via freedoms to life and liberty, which does not include in its definition, forced political conversion via war. we are a socialist nation on the brink of communism.

reply to post by undo


On academic theory, I will agree with you.

However...I pay taxes to have good roads..the county provides a service and I pay for it.

My kids went to public school, my road is patroled by sheriff's deputies, and their is a waste site near by that the county provides for me to use...again, services provided by the county and i pay for them by way of taxes.

Same with the state of NC....same with the Federal Government.

Now the types of sevices being forced on me and the amount I have to pay for them...especially Federal...that is another OP.

But basically, I am provided with a service by the state and I pay for it with taxes...

Again, we could argue symantics...but we are opposite sides of the same coin... if I understand you correctly, neither one of us sees the point to the protests in NYC.

reply to post by AlreadyGone


i have no problem with most social programs, particularly those that help the needy and provide for infrastructure and education. just bringing up the reality, that to have and maintain as many social programs as we do, we are very socialistic, and getting closer and closer to outright communism.

you are being picked on cause you don't want to be a communist. they are calling you greedy because you don't want to be a communist. they and you, refer to you as a capitalist, but you are not. you're a socialist and, you didn't even know it. it's pretty amazing what a snow job they did on us, and now the rest of the planet.

[img]http://www.thedoggstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/kill_for_peace.jpg[/


illuminati card game

reply to post by undo


I could not agree with you more. And that is my biggest fear... our situation seems to parallel that of Germany in the 1920s...rising political factions...some of which grow beyond civil protests and into outright anarchy. This in turn opens the door to tyrrany...

so many of these protestors should weigh the old saying..." Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it."

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
reply to post by undo

 

I could not agree with you more. And that is my biggest fear... our situation seems to parallel that of Germany in the 1920s...rising political factions...some of which grow beyond civil protests and into outright anarchy. This in turn opens the door to tyrrany...

so many of these protestors should weigh the old saying..." Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it."

i was listening to a native american gentleman on a radio interview from the 1990's. he was saying the american people were going to be required to give up their nintendos, computers, and capitalism. now normally, i like this particular guy, cause he has some interesting info about ancient history, but he was basically saying in 1990 something, that we were going to be required to become a third world nation. and i couldn't help but scratch my head in puzzlement at his statement. now i think i know what he was getting at. even 20 years ago, people who weren't satisfied with socialism, were already planning the downfall of the nation, so that we could correct the environment by lapsing back into a society without modern conveniences.

he said, we would have to relearn everything and that the native americans would teach us how to respect the earth. this of course starts, by taking away anything resembling quality of life. one mass throng of human misery.