The Declaration of the Occupation of New York City

reply to post by undo


Neither are a threat in my eyes.

At least when compared to fascism, which America is already getting a taste of. In fact, the day we hired those Nazi scientists was the day we set the wheels in motion for the destruction of this country.

Let's stop derailing this subject and look at the bigger picture. You can't have it all your way so there will either be people out there protesting or there will be no one protesting. Which do you prefer?

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by undo

 

Neither are a threat in my eyes.

At least when compared to fascism, which America is already getting a taste of. In fact, the day we hired those Nazi scientists was the day we set the wheels in motion for the destruction of this country.

Let's stop derailing this subject and look at the bigger picture. You can't have it all your way so there will either be people out there protesting or there will be no one protesting. Which do you prefer?

i like that people have the freedom to protest and that tanks of soldiers haven't rolled into the area and gunned them all down like in the tianmen square incident in china. i want it to stay that way. you don't you don't have any problem with communism. i do. i have many problems with communism and so do alot of other americans. i am not thrilled with fascism either. killing people due to their religion or ethnicity? not my cup of tea (but then, communists have done the same thing...you left that part out.)

where do we go from here

Originally posted by MemoryShock

Originally posted by Maxmars

Perhaps it would be ore accurate to say that we failed to establish control of the governance that allowed this behavior to persist, rather than being assimilated into it.

edit on 1-10-2011 by Maxmars because: (no reason given)

No, it wouldn't be. Because (never start a sentence with because unless you care not what grammar nazis think) the operative inference is that there was a choice on behalf of the public.

I hate to be that guy but when education is designed to either create rock stars or just convey enough for a machinist to perform his job, despite the capacity to think beyond just that, then there is a possibility that society has set itself up for failure.

Seriously, education is the biggest problem here and I know many people who can talk with the big boys and I know several big boys who don't have a clue what they be talking about..

Besides...where is failure even a relevant consideration when we see what 'everyday' people are doing with access to information and instant communication?

There are many assumptions we have had pre-internet because there was no communication and they should be squashed inside of a decade...I am not imploring, merely estimating...

This is NOT about education. I am so tired of hearing all the education complaints when they don't see the real problem. Everyone who likes to talk about the money spent in school today versus however many years ago and then bemoans the resultsvia test scores is failing to take into account several important factors.
1. When listed in the news the spending is per pupil. An average calculated by dividing total expenditures by total students. It does not take into account that there are students in public schools today that would have been institutionalized for their disabilities back in the day. Special education funding *inside* a school is completely separate from general education funds. The same is true of the class size statistics. There are many schools with 30 or more regular ed kids in a class. Down the hall there are three kids with four teachers during the same class period. That gives us an average teacher ratio of (33 students divided by five adults...less than seven). But the reality is that there are far more than seven kids in the general education classroom. A lot more. The test scores that everyone thinks are so low also include those students who wouldn't have had the opportunity to attend in the past. All parents of regular education students need to learn this truth. Trust me, if you ever end up fighting the system for your regular education kid you will need to know this stuff.
2. Speaking of parents...society is not the same as it once was. Baby Mama, Baby Daddy, the break down of the family and kids moving from one house to another every few days takes its toll on the ability of that child to do well in school.
3. Our school system was originally created to reinforce the common bonds and language of the citizens of the country and to create factory workers. Make some factory jobs and our schools will instantly be "fixed".
4. Given all of the above, many of our schools are doing a great job with less than ideal circumstances.

The problems with education are a symptom not a cause of the ills in our society. I have made a determination to call out this issue whenever it arises so please don't feel offended. If you have a kid of your own you likely understand.

reply to post by michaelmcclen


I agree. As long as governments are defined by their generations, and its citizens bring children into our world, we are obliged to give each child a public, free, comprehensive education, K thru college, in order for them to navigate the planet they have become a part of and make educated decisions about how they can contribute to the whole. Only in this way can we keep the generations moving progressively forward. "....providing for the general welfare" embedded in our US constitution was an agreement of the people to provide for the generations. Every child has the potential for greatness - all should be given that chance.

Originally posted by playswithmachines

Originally posted by Misoir
reply to post by michaelmcclen

 

It is an insult to treat people equally in my opinion when we are inherently unequal.

Evolution would say natural selection, let the intelligent move on and leave the weakest links to die. So do not bring evolution into the discussion here.

I agree and disagree with this post.(!)
Yes, lowering standards just to get the numbers up is bad, overtaxing the schools with useless subjects & too many students is bad. But that's all financial

The better option is to educate EVERYONE to as a high standard as possible, but sadly education is seen as a problem rather than as a solution.
The fact that we are inequal (unique) makes us what we are. If we can learn to co-operate each to his ability without any form of prejudice, we could finally progress into a 'type 1 civilisation'.
As for evolution, i think the fittest & strongest would survive, not necessarily the smartest

Problem is, both of you are right to a degree ...

We need the intellect, but the sad thing is, everyone considers their child to be the true intellect. And every man, considers himself to be smart. Of course, this isn't, but how on earth do we differentiate.

Giving everyone a degree is not the solution, because any moron can now have a high ranking job, without being able to minister it. Just like in the past, when the Kings and Queens could get theirs, even if they were so dumb, that it was a miracle they could walk and talk at the same time. Seriously ... I love Pirates of the Carribean, what does Crazy King George think is his qualification? His honor the duke of bla bla ... The bla bla of the Holy Roman Empire ... and The King of Great Britain ... and you.

That was his statement for his qualification ... of stupidity, I guess.

But how do you solve this problem? Today, you need to have a paper to get a job, but it doesn't really matter wether you can do it or not. 30 years ago, we had a boom ... because people were actually doing what they could do. Because society was in an upturn ...

AND the problem today is, that the leaders don't know how to keep the rise. They start to feel that the population is a problem, too many peole, too many sheeple, not enough to go around. The next thing we have, is poverty and death ...

Here, we are having problem with peole getting healthcare. They are making cut downs in the cost ... but they are not cutting down the Doctors wages. They are cutting down, the cost of patients ... the patient is the one, paying for the cut downs, with his health ... and life. Is this logical? hell no ...

How could we afford all this, 30 years ago ... but can't today? Has the WEALTH of the world, diminished? NO ... so, what happened?

People got greedy, that's what happened. And now there are advertisements on TV, for you to sell your GOLD. Do you have gold fillings, gold this, or gold that? somewhere ... we buy it, at outrageous prices. Why? Because the bank robbers, are trying to save their heist ... by putting it in gold, and washing it. They'll lose on the gold per pound, but they'll still get a good profit from what they started with.

So, how do we solve this? How do we, make sure that the intellect survives? How do we make sure, that we keep moving onwards, and that the intellect can keep on making our lives better and moving onward?

That is the question ... how do we ensure, that we are giving the job, to those who are best suited for it ... we now have a law to give it to people of different races, but that doesn't mean they are suitet for it. We need to ensure it goes to those suited, intellectually ... not just to someone BECAUSE she's a woman ... or BECAUSE he's a man, or BECAUSE they're colored, or BECAUSE they're not.

That's the problem, because if we can't ensure this ... we might as well go back to the warring, and the survival of the fittest. We'll end up there, sooner or later anyway.

Originally posted by TheThirdAdam
reply to post by bjarneorn

 

Yes bush did that under the guise of protection from terrorism, but what these people want is government protection from social/economic injustice... it handing would be communist leaders another layup in the same game

Sure, I agree ... it's not a revolution, it's a joke. And unless they start educating themselves, they'll end up as GOP tools, bringing even a more injustice patriotact upon us, and I mean all of us in the world.

Take a look at the video, they're not organized, nor really up to anything. The cops just walk around and arrest them, one by one, one by one ... until there's no one left. They're like fish in a fishing pool, and the cops just walk and fish out the fish.

What are they going to accomplish?

More control ... not less.

It's fairly obvious who wrote this given their prioritization of concerns:

They want a working "Democracy". Ok, the educational system has failed you, if they haven't taught you that we're a Republic during 4 years of college then you deserve your money back.

Given that the largest of our problems have been generated by war profiteering and outsourcing of jobs through various "free trade" agreements why do they list so many other things as more important? Gender inequality (where, exactly?), education is now a right? (where is that in the Constitution?) and didn't they choose to pursue higher education (purely for the sake of knowledge I'm sure income had nothing to do with it) and willingly enter contractually for those debts?

No mention of the Federal Reserve System - the very institution that has created our National debt?

What's up with this one?:

11. They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.

Media conglomeration has nothing to do with the police or military but everything to do with changing FCC rules over media ownership (Thanks Ronnie!)

All criticisms aside it's heartening to hear this as it a genuine outpouring of anger and frustration and demands for restoration of our rights while curtailing those of the Corporations. We're long overdue for some serious changes in this country though I fear the changes may end up worse than the original problem with every special interest group wanting their just desserts as it were.

reply to post by morder1


Hey Mcfly, Mcfly, is anybody home Mcfly!!!!

classic avatar atf movie

Originally posted by The Sword
reply to post by undo

 

Neither are a threat in my eyes.

At least when compared to fascism, which America is already getting a taste of. In fact, the day we hired those Nazi scientists was the day we set the wheels in motion for the destruction of this country.

Let's stop derailing this subject and look at the bigger picture. You can't have it all your way so there will either be people out there protesting or there will be no one protesting. Which do you prefer?

You are totally in the dark, so I don't want people like you protesting, because you don't have a clue about what is actually wrong. You're like Iceland, the only think you will accomplish is making things worse ... now Iceland, with it's new government, is really in the shyt hole.

The Allies never hired any nazi scientists, Jesus Christ. First of all, these scientists were Germans, and they were working for the German government under arms. The allies, did the same thing the nazis did, and forced these men to work under them instead. Amongst these scientists, you refer to, is Albert Einstein ... is he a nazi? hell no. You're more a nazi, than any of these scientists were ... they didn't have a choice, you do.

You set the wheels in motion, when you took part in the war. Europe had ended the Roman Empire, and there were several forces that wanted to revive this empire. Amongst these, were the nazis. America took part in this war, because America wanted to become this empire ... Europe at this time, was a copy of Hellas in the past. A lot of intellect, enormous intellect, specifically in Germany, that hurled our society ahead. The nazis, and the US, were the Roman empire ... wishing to establish just another control of greed. Nobody in Europe protested against America taking this lantern ... because nobody in Europe wanted it.

You were not worthy of the lantern ... this lantern is Greek, by origin. It refers to the best of us, and has been fauled by the Roman empire, the Holy Roman empire, and by the United States of America.

Because your stupid ... the only thing you know, is how to make violence ... and making laws that help taking the key jobs, away from those of intellect, who are the ones who made the society rich, into the hands of the greedy and the stupid. you don't know why, or for what purpose, except for the illusion of yourself being something better.

You're not. And you're not worthy, and should be cast out.

reply to post by morder1
I am all for Occupy Wall Street and Occupy Worldwide. I just have one question.
Why are we trying for democracy in this beautiful country of the United States of America, When our founding fathers broke away from democracy with Great Britain and founded this Country as a Constitution Republic. Despising Democracy and its 51% controls 49%=Slavery rule?
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
We the United States are a REPUBLIC, NOT a democracy!

reply to post by Misoir


Since when is K-12 free? My child is in first grade and I spent around $160 on book rentals and $2 a day just on lunches. Do the math. That is $40 a month. Not to mention paying for field trips, paying for the long list of stuff at the beginning of the year, etc. Definitely not free. I do realize paying for college is in a whole other ballpark. I owe thousands of dollars worth of school loans that I will be paying off till I'm an old lady. What we need is more scholarships for the students who do put in effort and get good grades. I don't believe that education should be free for all but I do believe that it shouldn't be as expensive as it is. There are a lot of smart kids that don't get the opportunity to go to college because its way too expensive. Ok I'm done with my rant. Not meant to be an argument, just wanted to point out that primary education is not free.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by Misoir

 

Right now they just seem like a joke to me, I would not even waste my time with these people. Yes these people should be punished for their crimes against humanity, violation of our natural rights, conspiracy to form a global governance, and treason against the Republic. But do we really need to drag in these cultural issues which will certainly alienate Conservatives such as me.

I bet they said the same things about the founding fathers!

Sure, some of their claims may be a bit off, but not completely wrong. That does not take away from the fact that it is a possibility.

They are voicing their opinion and that's all that matters. Who cares if it alienates people as long as they have that right to speak.

edit on 29-9-2011 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)

These people are NOT, NOT, NOT, the Founding Fathers. Period.

These people aren't protesting the loss of their natural rights. They are out there marching together as puppets of the socialist party USA, half of them can't even articulate why they are there.

It's just another hair-brained leftist protest aimed at demonizing everything that makes this country great. The generic moniker of the "evil corporation". I wonder if Facebook, Twitter, Verizon wireless, and other corporations that allow these people to spread their messages are evil too?

These people think anyone who makes more than they do, or doesn't show up to burning man is evil. They are the useless handout crowd.

These people are NOT the Founders. They are not marching for individual rights, they are not marching for economic liberty. They are marching for collectivism and socialist control of the economy.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr
reply to post by openminded2011

 

I doubt the Liberals in Egypt liked the hardline muslims, yet they are the ones who have taken over from the Liberal protesters who started the movement. Funny how these revolutions can turn out.

I posted this on the other thread as well. BUT I do think it is worth saying again:

Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy.
Franz Kafka

Originally posted by AlreadyGone
reply to post by woodwardjnr

 

So who took the future away from my daughter...she is just graduating college next spring. Who made her go out and work....that was her idea...not mine, I wanted her to concentrate on school.

Most of the protestors I have seen are adults...young adults, but adults. Capable and able to work.

Who took the youth from my uncles in 1941-42-43?

Who took the youth from my mom's baby brother in 1967?

They all came back and led good lives...a few are still here living good lives.

What did I take from the protestors in NY City? An opportunity to read a book for free at the library...the opportunity to read another book after that. The opportunity to go to a community college or tech school and learn a skill that they could actually use in life?

What did I take from the protestors in NY City...the opportunity to go to night school and learn a new skill after they found the degree they had was useless...I did that at 38.

What meal am I not providing with my tax dollars for FoodStamps, WIC? How many mouths have I not tried to feed at food banks I have volunteered at, or meals i have delivered, or meals I have donated, or boxes of food freely given through my church to the needy...who did my greedy capitalist self deny?

What part of a contract did I make them skim over? What opportunity to move to where the jobs aredid I stand in the way of? My older kids have no problem working...one worked in Montana and one is in Vermont...they moved from NC...

Again...it takes effort on the part of the individual...as an American, you have the right to Life, Liberty, and the PURSUIT of Happiness...PURSUIT...effort of the individual to obtain the life they choose that makes them happy.

I think this deserves to be read by those who may have missed it.

Originally posted by projectvxn

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by Misoir

 

Right now they just seem like a joke to me, I would not even waste my time with these people. Yes these people should be punished for their crimes against humanity, violation of our natural rights, conspiracy to form a global governance, and treason against the Republic. But do we really need to drag in these cultural issues which will certainly alienate Conservatives such as me.

I bet they said the same things about the founding fathers!

Sure, some of their claims may be a bit off, but not completely wrong. That does not take away from the fact that it is a possibility.

They are voicing their opinion and that's all that matters. Who cares if it alienates people as long as they have that right to speak.

edit on 29-9-2011 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)

These people are NOT, NOT, NOT, the Founding Fathers. Period.

These people are Americans citizens from all walks of life... Many of them are the kids that
are going to have to pay for the government spending, the institutional greed and corruption
on Wall Street.

These people aren't protesting the loss of their natural rights.

So?

they are protesting the very validity of a system that sells fake capital at highly inflated premiums.

IT isn't 1776 anymore you know.

They are out there marching together as puppets of the socialist party USA, half of them can't even articulate why they are there.

Bull crap... They are there doing what Americans should have done years ago. Conservatives seemed
to be real mad about the results of this corruption, but now, because it is aimed at the real seat of power
they are fearful... typical.

It's just another hair-brained leftist protest aimed at demonizing everything that makes this country great. The generic moniker of the "evil corporation". I wonder if Facebook, Twitter, Verizon wireless, and other corporations that allow these people to spread their messages are evil too?

I see, so institutional corruption, criminal intent and systemic robber makes this country great, huh?

You are making this about other corporations, aren't you?

These people think anyone who make more than they do, or doesn't show up to burning man is evil. They are the useless handout crowd.

These people are NOT the Founders. They are not marching for individual rights, they are not marching for economic liberty. They are marching for collectivism.

Again they are not rich, white, male quasi aristocrats from 235 years ago... They are marching because they have to pay for the corruption just like you, you should be marching instead of watching Fox news. They are
marching because the banks declared economic war on America 3 years ago and these people
had to pay for it through taxes and they already pay for it at an institutional level. You expect people
to take what they are given, that is a slave's mentality.

edit on 3-10-2011 by mastahunta because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by projectvxn
They are marching for collectivism and socialist control of the economy.

And you are marching for elitist control of the economy???

Fear Fear Fear


These are Democrats, Republicans and independents marching for freedom!

Those are a good start, but we're starting to get the feeling the socialists, communists and globalists are trying to coerce the movement in order to spin it back around on the middle class. We need to keep our eyes open, and DO NOT buy crap from the MSM, listen only to CNN and even be weary of what they are reporting.

reply to post by mastahunta


Yay! More liberal tripe.

Unlike you and these idiots on Wall St. I'm very careful who I stand next to.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by mastahunta

 

Yay! More liberal tripe.

Unlike you and these idiots on Wall St. I'm very careful who I stand next to.

Yay, more people bank shilling for free!

You are not very careful about who you stand by.