Iranian Pastor Faces Execution for Refusing to Recant Christian Faith

reply to post by centurion1211


whats also true is that this country was founded to be free from religious persecution

not so much anymore

Originally posted by centurion1211
But unfortunately, posters like annee (above) don't see it as all that extreme and then worse, try to create a false moral equivalency to what Christian leaders do in the United States.

Oh - but I do see it as extreme.

I just don't think we are so far removed - - - and retch at the superior attitude of some.

Originally posted by centurion1211
Alas, the "religion of peace" shows its true nature once again.

Except this time no one can blame these actions only on a bunch of radicals or terrorists.

This time it is state sponsored - and state condoned.

I disagree with you completely. This has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with Iran. Anybody, of any faith, can do egregious acts and hide behind religion.

Had you replaced religion, with country, and named it Iran, you would be spot-on.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by centurion1211
But unfortunately, posters like annee (above) don't see it as all that extreme and then worse, try to create a false moral equivalency to what Christian leaders do in the United States.

Oh - but I do see it as extreme.

I just don't think we are so far removed - - - and retch at the superior attitude of some.

But you said what the iranians are doing is "just a bit more extreme". IMO most would consider the difference about the size of the Grand Canyon.

Originally posted by Annee
People easily forget or ignore our own path.

Less then 50 years ago in America - - a Christian converting to Judaism - - was like the worst thing ever. They would be disowned by their family and shunned by the dominant Christian society. And yes - - there was sometimes violence.

Individual beliefs are a far cry from the STATE putting somebody to death over their faith.

Its only recently that gays have been given a voice in legal courts. Much of the time they were dismissed as having no rights - - and no right to ask for rights.

Well when Iran stops being in denial and starts admitting to having Gays and Homosexuals then maybe they can follow our lead.

Americans should not be so smug.

See.
That right there is the problem. We are talking about a real world event taking place in Iran not some abstract discussion of theory. Why is it considered being smug to voice ones opinion in opposition? We see all kinds of Anti-US opinions expressed here day in and day out everyday 24/7

Are they all being SMUG as well?

Pot meet Kettle

Originally posted by lpowell0627

Originally posted by centurion1211
Alas, the "religion of peace" shows its true nature once again.

Except this time no one can blame these actions only on a bunch of radicals or terrorists.

This time it is state sponsored - and state condoned.

I disagree with you completely. This has nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with Iran. Anybody, of any faith, can do egregious acts and hide behind religion.

Had you replaced religion, with country, and named it Iran, you would be spot-on.

Except iran is run by a theocracy, meaning the religion and the state are one and the same.

So, I could have said iran, but in their case it would still mean islam.

reply to post by palg1


"What would the Muslim community do if Christians decided to execute all Christian converts to Islam? "

Isn't this the 2nd case in like 20 years?.. it's as draconian as other nations, but sounds like they're taking the long road on killing them "all"..lol..

Sounds like a political enemy / message sending type thing where he urinated on some Iranian elitists day.

There's no true justice anywhere in this world, Iran is bad.. but they're just one in a bag of b-holes.

reply to post by GovtFlu


the only real justice in this world comes from our maker

not by the hands of men

Originally posted by Annee

Less then 50 years ago in America - - a Christian converting to Judaism - - was like the worst thing ever. They would be disowned by their family and shunned by the dominant Christian society. And yes - - there was sometimes violence.

My family is not my government. I can tell them to leave me the hell alone and walk away. Same for my neighbors. The government seems to have issues when I do that.

Its only recently that gays have been given a voice in legal courts. Much of the time they were dismissed as having no rights - - and no right to ask for rights.

Absolute and categorical BS. Gays have ALWAYS had precisely the same rights as the rest of the population. No more, no less. What the squalling is about is that they didn't have special rights, to set them apart from the rest. In other words, they didn't have discriminatory rights, based upon their sexual preference, that the rest didn't have.

When a certain class of people is set apart as somehow special deserving of better or worse treatment than the rest, you enter a discriminatory situation. I was always taught that discrimination was a bad thing. Maybe I'm just not up to speed with this "new math" that celebrates discrimination based upon sexual proclivity.

Luckily, that discrimination appears not to exist in Iran. gays can be hung with all the same privileges that Christians are hung with. I'm sure that makes a difference in how tight the noose draws up.

reply to post by centurion1211


I am fully aware that Iran is a theocracy. I also understand that, much like most religious fanatics, they interpret the Koran to fit their ideals, their agenda. No matter what they do -- they claim it to have the blessing of Allah.

Nowhere in the Koran does it state that protesters should be killed or jailed or tortured. However, I distinctly remember the protesters being paraded on National TV in Iran begging forgiveness from Allah for their transgressions and misdeeds.

Once again, the actions of a government are being used to collectively bash an entire religion. I can't wait for the day when we get past this.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Nobody should be forced to recant their beliefs by the State.

Oooh, dramatic.. saying a few words is better than being killed. I promise recanting whatever 100x won't hurt or leave a scar. When finished, it's over and done. It wont rain balls of fire and dead fish either.

What happens to Joe Homeowner who refuses to recant his belief property taxes are the devils creation.. to the IRS?.. lol Granted, he won't be killed.. but he will be homeless.

Every state stomps on lots of individual "beliefs".. and makes people "recant" by admitting "guilt" even where none exists. It's my belief I shouldn't have to pull over for LAPD.. they will hunt me down and force my recantation, damn state.. grumble..grumble

I assume however most opine religious beliefs are "special beliefs".. opinions about the invisible man are cooler than other opinions. I don't, but I've been called a heretic, so..

I'll ignore the preceding off topic irrelevant rant.

Originally posted by GovtFlu
I assume however most opine religious beliefs are "special beliefs".. opinions about the invisible man are cooler than other opinions. I don't, but I've been called a heretic, so..

Islam like any other Religion is fine in my book as long as they stay on their side of the street and play nice with others while avoiding coming across my lawn trying to push their version of morality on me and mine. I don't attempt to do any of that to anybody else. I also have nothing against Persians.

I do however think Iran is responsible for their own actions just LIKE the US is for it's own. [Which we hear about 24/7] If people do not like what Iran is doing they should be able to freely discuss it in detail. Why point fingers at everybody else attempting poorly to distract others from acknowledging Iran's archaic practices?

Relax I was reading another source not fox news, and it says he can face execution there isn't a for sure yet. They are re-examining the situation. And that the death sentence for apostasy isn't even coded in the Iranian penal code. He will get a fair trial, I wouldn't start bashing Iran yet.

Youcef Nadarkhani


For all we know this could be another stunt to make Iran look bad. It is quite obvious the U.S. is trying to possibly flip the script by saying they are going to execute a man of Christian faith. I don't know this doesn't seem right. As ATS gurus we must investigate more into the issue, and why would a story of this caliber come out of the blue?

Originally posted by centurion1211
But you said what the iranians are doing is "just a bit more extreme". IMO most would consider the difference about the size of the Grand Canyon.

Throw in some propaganda - - always good to escalate the situation.

As an Atheist - - - I'm not really seeing a big difference in Fanatics trying to force God as government.

reply to post by Annee


we get that you dont like religion you dont believe so noone else should either

you know what that is just as bad as what you are demagoguing

pushing your belief system on to others

pot meet kettle

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Individual beliefs is a far cry from the STATE putting somebody to death over their faith.

I dunno. Did you live during those times in the 50s? Not so long ago.

I grew up in a Los Angeles beach suburb. There where a lot of white Christian supremacist - - even in my more liberal area. If there were (I found out later there were) any Jews in my neighborhood - - they kept their mouths shut. Was probably worse in the bible belt.

KKK - ring a bell?

We are not so far removed.

reply to post by Annee


All of that has what to do with Iran considering putting somebody to death because of their Faith?

If this thread was about Racial prejudice and or Religious persecution by the Government of LA then maybe I can see where you are coming from.

But it's not.

It's about Iran. Not mulholland drive, not the Valley or Orange county

Originally posted by SLAYER69
I'll ignore the preceding off topic irrelevant rant.

Originally posted by GovtFlu
I assume however most opine religious beliefs are "special beliefs".. opinions about the invisible man are cooler than other opinions. I don't, but I've been called a heretic, so..

Islam like any other Religion is fine in my book as long as they stay on their side of the street and play nice with others while avoiding coming across my lawn trying to push their version of morality on me and mine. I don't attempt to do any of that to anybody else. I also have nothing against Persians.

I do however think Iran is responsible for their own actions just LIKE the US is for it's own. [Which we hear about 24/7] If people do not like what Iran is doing they should be able to freely discuss it in detail. Why point fingers at everybody else attempting poorly to distract others from acknowledging Iran's archaic practices?

edit on 29-9-2011 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Discuss what you want.. as I do.

"Archaic" is your opinion of their practices, based on whose behavior?..

The biting hypocrisy is hilarious.. because US laws originated with code of hammurabi.. lmao.. seriously.. that US govt elite ignore these laws on an international level is considered "Archaic" to them.. "we" are like pre-law cave men who go around beating up people we dont like while defecating all over the place.. then refuse to leave..

Originally posted by GovtFlu
"Archaic" is your opinion of their practices, based on whose behavior?..

My own.


So much for the rest of your rant...

Originally posted by lpowell0627
reply to post by centurion1211

 

I am fully aware that Iran is a theocracy. I also understand that, much like most religious fanatics, they interpret the Koran to fit their ideals, their agenda. No matter what they do -- they claim it to have the blessing of Allah.

Nowhere in the Koran does it state that protesters should be killed or jailed or tortured. However, I distinctly remember the protesters being paraded on National TV in Iran begging forgiveness from Allah for their transgressions and misdeeds.

Once again, the actions of a government are being used to collectively bash an entire religion. I can't wait for the day when we get past this.

It was supposedly excusable when it could be blamed only some radical muslims.

Now you would have us believe it's excusable when it can be blamed "only" on the government of an entire country - where the state = islam.

Then we have annee telling us that we can blame all Christians for the actions of a few people in the past, but we can't blame millions of muslims for their actions taking place right now.

I can't wait for the day when we get past this - either.