Forbes : Fast and Furious might just be Obama's Watergate

reply to post by snarfbot

i
Not to mention, they sold the guns at a huge financial loss. Didn't even TRY to get what they paid for them.

So, let's see:

Sold guns that could not be tracked (as no tracking system was EVER put in place - not on the guns and not even at some ' off-site headquarters')
Bought at one price, sold at half of what was paid. (can't just 'give' them away, the cartel may think something's up)
Many whistleblowers saying the same thing, that these questions and many more were brought up over and over, but were all told to basically 'do what you're told and look the other way'.

The Administration's reps said this was to 'track the guns back into Mexico;, but (while no tracking system, not even a single person following them) the Mexican government was never informed? How could this be pulled off, without notifying the Mexican Government, unless the US goverment (giving benefit of the doubt as to the excuse given) was planning to (illegally) go into Mexico to bust the cartels, or (illegally) track the cartels across the border. Yeah, right! Definately not good for allied relationship.

Supposedly, emails have been turned over to the congressional investigation team, that will show/prove ties to the administration or cetain people in the White House. I can't wait to see those!

I got it, I got it!!!! Here's the real plan:

The guns were sold to evil cartel guys, that were promised a bounty by the US administration to take out the other evil guy (Osama Bin Laden). Once the whole story is allowed to be told, they'll all (Holder, Obama's administration) be vindicated. We'll all realize their heroism Now I get it. Why else do you think OBL just happened to be killed, the very weekend that Holder was being questioned? They had to hurry up the mission, since Holder's been 'called out'. Of course! Totally makes sense now. Holder can now claim he had to lie and say he knew nothing of this and it's the first he's heard anything about F&F. It's all due to 'National Security" on a mission that was taking place, right at that time. How could he be expected tell the real story to congress? That, could have foiled the whole operation.

Ah, I'm so glad to have finally figured this all out. I feel so much better. Go Obama! Go Holder! Yeah!

Amer-ica, YEAH!

Originally posted by SourGrapes
reply to post by snarfbot

 

no tracking system was EVER put in place

If this was true, they'd have no way of knowing guns they peddled ended up in cartel hands.

Originally posted by Ecidemon


If this was true, they'd have no way of knowing guns they peddled ended up in cartel hands.

They were sold directly to the cartel, the members who came over to US to purchase them. They weren't ever tracked because there was no tracking, never was any tracking device.

I'm confused by your reply.

The 'tracking' point continues to be brought up in F&F discussion, because this is what was given for excuse of why the operation was developed in the first place. This is in congressional investigation notes from discovery phase of the investigation into F&F.

reply to post by Vitchilo


And to think this arse was handed a Nobel peace prize as soon as his backside hit the Oval office chair.

It's fairly obvious what's going on here, arm the drugs cartels to the eyeballs, allow them to terrorise border towns, claim we have to have closer ties with Mexico, in order to police things properly.

Setting the stage for the NAU and Amero.

I can hear it now..."The Mexican drugs cartels and criminals have gotten out of control, we have to have integration with Mexico to stamp these criminals out. Therefore we are instigating the NAU...You want to be protected...right?"

Just a mini 9/11 type 'incentive' to rally the people to your idea really.

These people are disgusting, and yes, they should be up before the international criminal court...forget impeachment, that will sort nothing.

reply to post by Ecidemon

The guns ending up in the cartels' hands is the whole idea.

The weapons were sold to known criminal associates of the various cartels, deliberately and on the orders of US agents.

Selling weapons to cartel members and criminals known to be in bed with them means It's a forgone conclusion the weapons will be controlled BY the cartels.

reply to post by snarfbot


If it's a political move then it's equally stupid as the plan to track drug gangs with the guns. It hasn't worked, has it? I say again, it is simply not necessary to go to all that trouble to introduce gun laws. Even if you did, it'd have to work first and be utterly secret, and it is neither.

reply to post by Ecidemon


Serial numbers.

The best way to put it is there was no means of remotely tracking the guns. The only way they knew if the guns were ATF is if they ended up being seized at a crime scene and the serial numbers were matched.

Has anybody found DEFINITIVE evidence linking F&F to Obama? Not just his administration, to the man himself. Short of that, I wouldn't be holding my breath for Obama getting tried/impeached on anything in the US, and DEFINITELY not in Mexico. And short of any evidence directly implicating Obama, I doubt it will significantly impact the 2012 election.

Well we saw how far this went, when is the last time this issue was brought up in the news? I honestly had forgotten about it until I ran into this old thread, and I'm sure my fellow sheeple also have forgotten and moved on, hey, afterall X FACTOR is on!!!

This isn't getting him kicked out.

I think he would have to do something that is clearly out of his mind so people would not think of it as a race thing.

Like being in the white house with cocain, strippers, the mexican drug cartel leaders, Osama sitting in the back in an icecube, stuff like that

Originally posted by LadySkadi
Iran/Contra didn't break Regan [or Bush] and Fast and Furious won't break Obama...

Grasping at straws.

edit on 29-9-2011 by LadySkadi because: (no reason given)

But Reagan didn't take sides against Israel when in office. Obama has spoken openly about it, so he is doomed.

Just look at the way the media is portraying Obama these days.

Reading between the lines, Obama can't seem to do anything right nowadays. It's a simple fact, anyone that speaks out against Israel and holds a powerful office, in the USA, just shortened their career.

I'll forecast the outcome on this one.

Someone will take the fall for this.
They will get sentenced to jail.
Obama will pardon them.

case closed.

Originally posted by LadySkadi
Iran/Contra didn't break Regan [or Bush] and Fast and Furious won't break Obama...

Grasping at straws.

edit on 29-9-2011 by LadySkadi because: (no reason given)

The world as a whole wasn't so angry back then either, and we weren't in a recession or a depression (who knows which it is, the media calls it a recession, but then, they always water everything down).

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

Los Zetas is a criminal organization dedicated mostly to international illegal drug trade, assassinations, extortion, kidnapping and other organized crime activities.

Source

So we not only train them but Obama's ATF arm's them. I wonder if someone else in Government advises them in field tactics and strategy for cartel operations. I believe Obama and Bush both have a lot to answer for if the truth were to be known.

Essential to understanding all this is keeping in mind the Drug War is all about controlling global drug traffic. There is no interest whatsoever in stopping the drug trade but in directing and augmenting the cash flow. Many factions are united in the overall effort toward this end, the US the chief among them and the directors of this whole sordid business.

In addition, there are a number of greater and lesser agendas in play within this whole affair.

What is seen in the media is all a show. This F&F was behind-the-scenes action that was not supposed to be aired.

Originally posted by EPH612
Has anybody found DEFINITIVE evidence linking F&F to Obama? Not just his administration, to the man himself. Short of that, I wouldn't be holding my breath for Obama getting tried/impeached on anything in the US, and DEFINITELY not in Mexico. And short of any evidence directly implicating Obama, I doubt it will significantly impact the 2012 election.

Obama signed the bill funding it. The bill explicitly named "Project Gunrunner."

Sure, people sign things all the time without reading them or without asking about details. Why would anyone expect the POTUS who is a lawyer to bother reading what he signs?

Obama explicitly authorizes funds for Project Gunrunner

In a court of law if the prosecutor asks "I this your signature?" and I say "yes" the case is pretty much a lock.

Test of HR1 www.opencongress.org...:enr:232t

For an additional amount for ‘State and Local Law Enforcement Assistance’, $40,000,000, for competitive grants to provide assistance and equipment to local law enforcement along the Southern border and in High-Intensity Drug Trafficking Areas to combat criminal narcotics activity stemming from the Southern border, of which $10,000,000 shall be transferred to ‘Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Salaries and Expenses’ for the ATF Project Gunrunner.

You best be careful what you say about Obama. People have a way of flipping out the race card when he is addressed in a negative way. Facts are the facts…

“Those who address race the most, are usually the most racist”
-Mveronikas

Oh....hmmm.. Another " hate Obama, he's the devil..."
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Yawn!

Sorry, I wasn't entirely clear. What I meant was: Has there been evidence that proves Obama KNEW of the deliberate unethical and illegal actions taken? After all, the OFFICIAL story is a legitimate ATF operation. It was the tactics used during the process that led to the F&F scandal. If nothing can be proven that Obama knew about those tactics, he can hide behind the official story as long as he wants.


ATF "Project Gunrunner"

I don't know if this was mentioned, but I remember when they were trying to blame the American Public/ American Gun Owners, as the reason these weapons were being smuggled across the border to Mexico.

As if, we didn't have access to these weapons, then they wouldn't be showing up in the hands of the Mexican cartels.

One of these days someone in our corrupt government needs to answer for something, so far all I have seen is the Pedifile Congressmen getting caught.

With Regan and Ollie North, it was Guns for Cocaine, the Black flights out of Arkansas, which didn't stop till the plane crashed and they found Cocaine and guns on board.

I did always hear the CIA made the best Crack, that is till someone stepped on it here in the US, Rerock.

reply to post by Propulsion


That can happen. But sometimes the reason behind the vitriol against Obama can't be put down to anything else. The test is to ask yourself if you could see a white Democrat president taking the same level of venom on any particular issue. If the answer is yes, then the race card isn't being played.