There was no political tsunami for Israel after all

reply to post by backinblack


People are waking up in droves to whats really going on?

Exactly what do they think is really going on?

Fact is, if you were surrounded by a group of Israelis.....I know you'd keep your mouth shut and you would'nt dare spill one ioda of your smear campaign against Israel to them as you do on these boards.

I had a friend just like you who said worse than you. I finally introduced him to an Israeli family. He has since been to Israel twice and loves it there. He's not judgemental of Israel now!!!

reply to post by bluemirage5

Fact is, if you were surrounded by a group of Israelis.....I know you'd keep your mouth shut and you would'nt dare spill one ioda of your smear campaign against Israel to them as you do on these boards.

You mean a gang of bullies surrounding a lesser armed person??

Sounds about right for Israeli's..

Good comment mate.

But give me a bunch of my army buddies there with me and then see what they do..

reply to post by backinblack

Are you ill informed or ignorant?

I fall into the "neither" category.

It's only our leaders that think and act that way..

No, it's pretty much the majority consensus.

The people are waking up in droves to what is really going on..

Oh? And what is that?

Care to show me a poll that shows the majority backing Israel over Palestine???

www.pollingreport.com...

Since we're talking polls, however:

nationalinterest.org...

The finding was based on lengthy interviews with 1,010 Palestinian adults in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. About 80 percent of those polled agreed that it was the duty of all Muslims to participate in jihad to eradicate Israel.

The poll also reflected former Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat's famous denial (at Camp David in July 2000) of the Jews' historic link to Jerusalem and, by extension, to the Land of Israel/Palestine. Seventy-two percent of those polled denied that there was any historic link between the Jewish people and Jerusalem.

Apparently, "American Stupidity" is not limited to America.

Interestingly, the poll found that only 22 percent of those polled supported firing rockets into Israel, 65 percent favored a diplomatic-political solution to the conflict and only 20 percent preferred the road of violence. This perhaps reflects the average Palestinian's tiredness of the conflict and unwillingness to pay the costs of violence while supporting the goal of Israel's elimination.

To be fair - only one out of five of them think they should be behaving like complete douches.

Oh, and more directly to your point:

www.gallup.com...

PRINCETON, NJ -- For the first time since 1991, more than 6 in 10 Americans -- 63% -- say their sympathies in the Middle East situation lie more with the Israelis than with the Palestinians. Fifteen percent side more with the Palestinians, down slightly from recent years, while a combined 23% favor both sides, favor neither side, or have no opinion.

When you are done picking the shattered remnants of your argument off the floor, you are more than welcome to continue in this exchange.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by Aim64C
[more

The International Criminal Court says settlement building is illegal. Israel seems to also defy the international community in terms of ignoring the UN which has always taken the view that the settlement building is in breach of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

I just don't see how this settlement building can be useful in the overall issue here, which is to have peace. And we can see that Israel has only exacerbated the problem which has resulted in the Palestinians nationhood bid at the UN. It seems to me that this move by the PA has prompted people to start paying attention to what's happening.

Now we see Tony Blair speaking of talks and a one year plan, I sense panic in Mr Blair and the US administration threatening a veto, all very interesting stuff. But anyway I no expert on this subject I'm just expressing my opinion of the subject, and ultimately I think everyone is in agreement that every effort must be made on both Israeli and Palestinian side. to really deliver peace for their peoples and the rest of us.

reply to post by SpecialAgent25


Residential permits and building in Israel does'nt come under the duristriction of the International Crimes Court! Hellooooooooo!

reply to post by bluemirage5
[more

The International Court of Justice deems settlement building illegal and the UN believes that is in breach of the Fourth Geneva Convention, so I'm really not interested in who issues permits for building these settlements, they are illegal and in no way moving the "peace process" forward and infact is counter productive and in violation of international law and in defiance of the international community. Its really quite simple.

And this was an error in my earlier post when I said International Criminal Court, my apologies for the confusion and I have edited it to avoid confusion.

Many thanks.

reply to post by SpecialAgent25

The International Criminal Court says settlement building is illegal. Israel seems to also defy the international community in terms of ignoring the UN which has always taken the view that the settlement building is in breach of the Fourth Geneva Convention.

This is not the case. Only the Arab members of the U.N. have been pushing for a ruling on the 4th Geneva Convention (which simply doesn't apply).

I just don't see how this settlement building can be useful in the overall issue here, which is to have peace.

The issue is not to have peace. Look at the polls - Palestinians want to see Israel gone. It has been this way since Israel was established.

There is no prospect for peace. It's simply not going to happen, the Palestinians don't want to hear it.

Since they are an irrelevant power - they will simply get absorbed and/or pushed aside in accordance with the natural progression of things.

reply to post by Aim64C

Since they are an irrelevant power - they will simply get absorbed and/or pushed aside in accordance with the natural progression of things.

I really doubt that..

I say the world is waking and you give me one stupid US poll of 1000 people.

Let's wait and see where Israel's lies and aggression get them..

reply to post by backinblack

I really doubt that..

Speaking of irrelevance...

I say the world is waking and you give me one stupid US poll of 1000 people.

Those polling methods are used to predict within a reliable accuracy the results of national elections as well as many other popular opinions.

Let's wait and see where Israel's lies and aggression get them..

You're a one-track mind. It's kind of cute in a pathetic sort of way.

You really have to wear a pair of tinted glasses around to believe Israel is lying to a degree greater than Canada.

The real issue is Palestine's endorsement of Hamas. But you seem to want to ignore that issue and act like Israel has nothing better to do than blow up random 'civilians.'

reply to post by Aim64C

The real issue is Palestine's endorsement of Hamas. But you seem to want to ignore that issue and act like Israel has nothing better to do than blow up random 'civilians.'

Nah, the real issue is the ILLEGAL settlements and Israels continued stealing of land for decades..

But you seem to want to ignore that issue and act like Hamas is retaliating for nothing..

Originally posted by Aim64C
reply to post by backinblack

 

I really doubt that..

Speaking of irrelevance...

I say the world is waking and you give me one stupid US poll of 1000 people.

Those polling methods are used to predict within a reliable accuracy the results of national elections as well as many other popular opinions.

Let's wait and see where Israel's lies and aggression get them..

You're a one-track mind. It's kind of cute in a pathetic sort of way.

You really have to wear a pair of tinted glasses around to believe Israel is lying to a degree greater than Canada.

The real issue is Palestine's endorsement of Hamas. But you seem to want to ignore that issue and act like Israel has nothing better to do than blow up random 'civilians.'

Yet Hamas has nothing to do with Illegal setttlements since there are no illegal settlements in Gaza. Funny how that is left out as well by people. The Palestinians will not, ever, be able to get rid of Hamas. Hamas is so power hungry mad that they will do whatever it takes to remain in control of Gaza, up to and including the murder of innocent Palestinians who oppose them (as we witnessed when Hamas decided to kill their Fatah counterparts).

When Hamas goes on the record talking about how they are ok with driving up the Palestinian body count by using populated locations to attack Israeli civilians, it speaks volumes. Gaza is still under occupation, except its by Hamas.

reply to post by SpecialAgent25


I'll say it again; the International Crimes Court, International Court of Justice nor the United Nations have any say over any building of any structure in Israel let alone any other country in the world.

Because "Palestine" is not a sovereign country and Israel is; Israel can build whereever she likes and that includes Judea and Sumeria (or what you deem the West Bank).

Do not make me repeat it again!

reply to post by backinblack


Under what law are these Israeli "settlements" are illegal?

reply to post by backinblack

Nah, the real issue is the ILLEGAL settlements and Israels continued stealing of land for decades..

You can't really call it "stealing" land when the Arabs are so inept at invasions that they -lose- land to the defenders.

Further - there is no internationally recognized legal authority. That is kind of why we have wars.

But you seem to want to ignore that issue and act like Hamas is retaliating for nothing..

Retaliation, huh?

I've always been what you would call "socially awkward." I'm an idealist and a horribly intelligent 'dreamer.' The reality of human social interactions and the way in which people accept dishonesty or default to vilifying each other is impossible for me to comprehend. This has lead to my social life being quite challenging and fraught with misunderstandings and jokes at my expense.

I have a rather negative disposition toward most people and find them weak in integrity, character, and intelligence. Worse - their tendency is to persecute that which they don't understand - something I've learned first hand.

Since the actions of Hamas can be justified by their "retaliation" against Israel - I will go ahead and say that I would - under this same logic - be justified were I to acquire a rifle and start popping people's heads off outside of Wal-Mart, or rig a van full of improvised explosives to detonate in the parking lot on a busy Friday afternoon.

It's retaliation for the way I have been oppressed by the -inferior- likes of the merely average person.

If I were to do something like that two weeks from now and I got arrested for domestic terrorism - would you be commenting on a thread discussing it: "He was only retaliating against vermin."

I highly doubt it.

Now, if I blew up a bank, or something, you might say: "Oh, he was just retaliating against the 'banksters'" - it's okay, since you don't like the people being targeted.

In this case - you simply have a dislike for Israel, for some reason. Why - I really don't know. The point is, however, that you have put on the "I hate Israel" shade of glasses - and that is why you see the actions of Hamas as reasonable.

Were those same actions to be carried out by any other group against an entity you do not 'hate' - then you would not be nearly as supportive.

Given that the various arab/moslem nations have expropriated the land and homes of about as many Jews as Israel expelled Palestinians, why not jsut do a swap??

Why do you pro Israelis ignore the settlements or try to call them legal ??

Everyone including the US Government has condemned Israel for the continued settlements..

It's only Israel and it's biased supporters that think it's OK..

It's a shame you aren't as quick to admit the truth that your beliefs express and that's that Israel NEVER wanted peace..
Peace would hinder expansion and expansion is Israel's only aim...

As for this BS blaming Hamas for everything.
Where were Hamas 20 or 30 years ago when Israel was doing the same??

And Xcathdra, your ridiculous comments that there's no settlements in Gaza..
Well mate, if NSW was being invaded I'd hope Qld,Vic,SA,WA,Tas and even the ACT would come to our aid..

We are ALL Australians as they are ALL Palestinians..
Hamas has EVERY right to retaliate for ANY action anywhere in Palestine..
Let's face it, Gaza's turn would come eventually anyway..

Originally posted by backinblack
Why do you pro Israelis ignore the settlements or try to call them legal ??

These kids don't know what they're talking about. They should stick to their coloring books and remember to not draw outside the predetermined lines! Because we know how Israelis like going beyond the line...

Just a bunch of Islamophobic children who's opinion means less then dirt. Palestinians have the right to self-govern themselves just as Americans and Israelis do. Them saying otherwise makes them no better then Assad and Gaddafi, two people who love to see humans rights ignored.

reply to post by backinblack

Why do you pro Israelis ignore the settlements or try to call them legal ??

I don't ignore them. Israeli influence is spreading. That is all there is to it. Palestine does not exist as a sovereign power.

Legal/illegal doesn't even enter into the equation on the international level. If I have the capability to do something, and I do it, that is all that matters. If you have both the desire and capability to interfere with my actions - then a conflict (and potential war) will arise.

Israel has a right to grow and expand its influence, as well as take the actions it sees fit to protect its citizens and interests.

Palestine has the right to react to that however they please. They choose to do so by supporting a group that behaves in an unreasonable manner. As far as I am concerned - they can die in a fire. If their response to "I don't like what you are doing" is to support a group that commits random acts of violence (they aren't even done with a mission objective... just done for the sake of killing someone - probably why they suck at invading, they don't get the concept of mission objectives).

It would be one thing if it could be called a "resistance" - but when targets are random public centers and the attacks serve no purpose other than to rack up a body count... no - sorry - go find a fire to die in; fire locating services are offered free of charge.

Everyone including the US Government has condemned Israel for the continued settlements..

No, the U.S. Government hasn't. Certain members have. Other members have voiced support. The Official standpoint is that the two should be pursuing avenues for peace. It's a classic response that avoids taking sides and pissing other countries off by proxy.

It's a shame you aren't as quick to admit the truth that your beliefs express and that's that Israel NEVER wanted peace..
Peace would hinder expansion and expansion is Israel's only aim...

There is nothing wrong with expansion.

Further - no new settlements have been established since 1993. It is the nature of these communities to grow - and the responsibility of their government to be conducive to that.

Israel has proven itself more than capable of being peaceful. The Western world has no problem dealing with Israel in both political and business arenas. It is Palestine and many of those Arab nations that just can't quite figure it out. Some do - and we are more than happy to work with them.

As for this BS blaming Hamas for everything.
Where were Hamas 20 or 30 years ago when Israel was doing the same??

That would be the various alliances of Arab nations that attempted to invade and exterminate Israel between the late 40s and 70s. Russia got tired of giving them toys to crusade around with and risk provoking a NATO response, and the trend turned to support of militants instead - which has been far more effective, to be honest.

Hamas has EVERY right to retaliate for ANY action anywhere in Palestine..

This is like saying someone has the right to kill their ex girlfriend's new boyfriend and rape her.

reply to post by Aim64C

This is like saying someone has the right to kill their ex girlfriend's new boyfriend and rape her.

What an utterly stupid comparison....

Hamas members are NOT ex Palestinians..

The rest of your post is just the usual pro Israeli crap though at least you are confirming Israel's agenda of expansion, not peace..