There was no political tsunami for Israel after all

reply to post by backinblack

Another joker..

The sentiment is mutual.

The settlements are called Illegal by pretty much everyone but Israel..

Really? By who?

More importantly... what entity has the authority to declare the actions of one country "illegal?" I wasn't aware we had a one-world government with a functioning legal system.

Palestine does not exist as a sovereign nation. End of story.

And how can the Palestinians build anything descent when Israel doesn't allow in building materials

They allow plenty of building materials in. The problem is that Palestine -insists- on getting them from shady sources and having Hamas handle the shipping.

and they would just bomb the buildings anyway..

Because Israel has bombed cities to rubble.

Get real, kiddo.

We have enough Israeli trolls already..

Now, this just gets into name-calling. Which I am fine with - but it tends to be discouraged around here, unless you happen to be part of the popular crowd.

Suffice it to say that you are quite ignorant and choose which facts to focus on. Israel is a sovereign nation and is free to make decisions regarding settling in open territory. It is also more than free to employ its own policies against groups that threaten it (and we can argue all day about whether or not blowing terrorists up is effective or not, or whether it would be better to give them a hug and a kiss with a meal...) Israel is free to decide its own foreign policy and is also free to accept the consequences of regional conflicts that may arise because of it.

If you want to get up in arms about countries that mistreat people - go get bent out of shape over North Korea, China, Singapore, Turkey, or any random African nation. All of those nations have a much higher body-count and fear factor than Israel does, by any metrics.

The only way this "Israel is the bane of everything" viewpoint makes sense is if we, first, put on the "I hate Israel" glasses. In the context of things, it really makes no sense without first precluding that Israel is at fault, regardless. Compared to China, Israel is a great business partner (compared to most of the world, actually).

Now, I'm not going to sit here and say that Israel is saintly. A number of their hard-nosed approaches to things have done just as much harm as it improved their national security. They also have a reputation as being somewhat manipulative in the cooperative intelligence arena.

But, you know what... that's better than countries who support groups dedicated to killing us in various suicidal and homicidal ways. Call me crazy... call me whatever... from where I stand; I've yet to see any kind of logical reason to sever ties with Israel or twist their arms on the issue of Palestine.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
Don't underestimate that tiny little country; when SHTF....they know how to stick together.

Indeed they do stick together, like a flock of sheep, and Netanyahu is the Shepard leading his flock over a cliff.

reply to post by backinblack


Israel CAN do as they please in Israel, it's THEIR country, not yours or mine. It was'nt all that long ago your ancestors also did as they please.

It won't be long before the world is against them? The world has ALWAYS been against them hence why they have their own nation! HELLOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Now instead of whining about a nation you've never been too, open your eyes and take a long look at your own country!

reply to post by LibertarianExpress


Israelis are as patriotic no different to the Americans, Australians, Kiwis, Brits, French etc are of theirs! The only difference between the Israelis and us is they've fought more wars since 1948 than we have.

Israelis have compulsary service....you whiny idiots are too cowardly to try out one month at boot camp!

This newest development will definitely add to the political tsunami if voted through.

Knesset to vote on annexing West Bank

Israel wants to drastically expand the building of new settlements.

Not any condemnation yet any of the world leaders. Not that I have heard anyways.

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by popsmayhem
If they want to attack Israel then they can expect
to have a full on nuclear war with the U.S involved.

Your thinking is so limited, and so cold war.

There are many ways to attack israel without having the US nuke anyone - they did it in 1948 and 1973, the Palestinians have been doing it constantly since 1948.

They can make it difficult for Israel by sponsoring pirates in eth Med, and Somalia, closing the Suez canal to ships heading to Israeli ports, continuing to sponsor terrorist attacks...

None of these will generate a nuclear response.

They could even manufacture another crisis "requiring" Israeli intervention in Lebanon to get IDF forces out from behind their fortified borders.

Still no nucelar response.

Show some imagination!!

reply to post by bluemirage5


Incredible.

You call EVERYONE a whiney coward in this forum, and when I replied to your childish post and called YOU a whiney munson, I get my comment deleted.

Just goes to show that the ATS team picks and chooses its sides.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I think the Suez canal is a moot point since Israel has a southern port that can bypass. Granted ships would be required to take the long way around Africa to redeploy but the Israelis have trained with that scenario for some time now.

If I remember right they have some subs deployed in the Gulf region / Indian Ocean. I remeber reading about the redeployment but that was some time ago.

I cant see any war going nuclear, especailly in a region where if you set one off, you wont only kill your enemy, but surrounding countries as well as your self. It takes 6-7 hours to fly across the continental US, and about 3-4 minutes to fly across Israeli airspace.

I still maintain that a Palestinian State, using current leadership or some arab countries as well as Palestine / Hamas / Fatah, is not going to become a reality. On the offchance it does I see it ending in disaster.

Hamas must go - period. A political group in that arean refusing to recognize Israel is going to be a non starter. As far as Israel and the news coming out about them annexing the West Bank, people need to actually read the treaty between Israel and Jordan on that topic.

Jordan has renounced any and all claims, and a permanent border has been established. The only stipulation present in their treaty deals with religious sites with the Israeli zone. The northern part of the border is left open to discussion with Jordan stipulating Palestinians should be the ones to negotiate that border.

To address another issues some keep coming back to -
Hamas has absolutely nothing to do with the West Bank and the issues there - namely housing / settlements. Hamas is in charge of Gaza only, and there are no Israeli presence in Gaza at all.

The continued actions by Hamas are inconsistent with peace. They are consistent with the goal of ending Israels existence.

Why people cant accept that fact is perplexing. If Hamas continually tries to kill Israelis, and refuse to let themlive in peace, why should Israel not return the favor?

The louder and more violent Hamas becomes, the more territory Israel is going to use to form a defensive barrier. In an area where you can traverse airspace in a few minutes, in the event of war distance is a valid defensive technique.

reply to post by LibertarianExpress


This hatred towards Israel has spiked to great heights in the past few years because most of you can't get your heads around the fact that Israel and the world bankers are a separate group. Israel does'nt run the world bankers and globalists anymore than they run Israel. They are separate entities and believe you me the Israelis are wary of them just as much as we all are. As for 9/11, gee, I was'nt aware there were Israeli Jews flying aircrafts in to the Twin Towers but it's the fault of Israelis simply because a Jewish man owned the buildings? (rolls my eyes).

Every Israeli PM and President of Israel has done military service. To be the Commander and Chief of a nation like the USA, military service should be compulsary before running for the Presidential elections. To have the likes of Obama take command of the greatest military in the world is mind boggling in itself.

If the Holocaust never happened, would Israel has been re-established anyhow? I don't know; but I do know no nation came to their aid as European Jews were rounded up and forced in to Nazi death camps and after WW2 no nation allowed their refugee ships to dock and take the European survivors in. Since 1948, the tiny nation of Israel has had to defend herself and will continue to do so in order for the Jewish nation to survive. Without a homeland for the Jews, their future is grim. If they were to take pot luck back in Europe again...the history of European Jewry tells their fate time and time again.

And don't even get me started on what took place in Arab nations towards their Jewish communities inflicted by Arabs immediately after Israel was declared an independant sovereign state hence why the Exodus of Middle Eastern Jews to Israel between 1948 and 1952 from Arab lands.

Israel is not going anywhere, not now, not anytime in the future. Nations can try isolating her, as many do, but she will survive for many generations to come. You can squeal all you like until you're blue in the face but it's not going to change that fact. Your opinions on Israel means squat to every Israeli and Jew.

In regards to the Palestinian Arabs....fact is none of them are homeless but there sure are plenty of Americans that are homeless. Perhaps they can come live with YOU? It appears the Palestinian Arabs means more to you than your own American brethen. Maybe they could set up a state next to yours? I know what, lets put them inbetween you and the Mexicans!

Suck it up!

reply to post by bluemirage5

Suck it up!

\

Why?
You're fully entitled to your bias opinion of present and past...

Just don't expect everyone to agree with you and all's fine..

Suck that up..

reply to post by Aim64C


Yes... and what exactly was that unclaimed land before 1948, even after that- it didn't just become unclaimed land.
And for unclaimed land, it has alot of people living on it.

reply to post by Aim64C

Because Israel has bombed cities to rubble

.
See here.

Originally posted by tribaltrip
reply to post by Aim64C

 

......Yes... and what exactly was that unclaimed land before 1948,.........

Part of the Ottoman Empire.......

If we move beyond that then Egypt, Jordan and Syria.

If the Palestinioans are so peaceful, then can someone explain Black Spetember in Jordan?


Wikipedia

September 1970 is known as the Black September (Arabic: أيلول الأسود‎ aylūl al-aswad) in Arab history and sometimes is referred to as the "era of regrettable events." It was a month when Hashemite King Hussein of Jordan moved to quash the militancy of Palestinian organizations and restore his monarchy's rule over the country.[3] The violence resulted in the deaths of thousands of people, the vast majority Palestinian.[1] Armed conflict lasted until July 1971 with the expulsion of the Palestine Liberation Organisation and thousands of Palestinian fighters to Lebanon.

Funny how this never comes up in discussion.....

Better yet, explain why Palestinians felt the need to kill members of the Israeli olympic team
- Munich Massacre

PEople aregue palestinians only attack military targets. How is the olympic team a valid military target?

Gee, and people wonder why Israel does what it does.

reply to post by backinblack


I don't need to suck anything up because your opinions of Israel means SQUAT to me!

reply to post by tribaltrip

Yes... and what exactly was that unclaimed land before 1948, even after that- it didn't just become unclaimed land.

If the United States were to collapse as a power (a more plausible scenario, today, than my parents ever believed) - what would become of the individual states? Would Britain recognize Florida, Texas, and Missouri as independent nations? In theory, we are supposed to be operating mostly at the State level as a federated republic of nation-states. However, If Mexico starts pushing its citizens into Arizona and New Mexico... are they both nations that can draw on support from the international community to put pressure on Mexico?

And for unclaimed land, it has alot of people living on it.

Personal property and national borders/sovereignty are two different things. It is Palestine's own responsibility to establish their status as an independent, governing body to be recognized on the international scale. We had to beat the God damned British before we were even close to being recognized as an independent power. It wasn't really until well after the war of 1812 that the world started to get used to the idea of America being something other than a colony of the British Empire.

It takes a lot of influence to establish yourself as an independent nation. We had nearly a century of ship-building with many nations (that the British turned around and said: "Hey... WTF... these guys are rolling in wealth - they should be paying taxes and not building ships for the French... what kind of British colony builds ships for the enemy of the British?" ) along with fur and agricultural trades that gave us our own experience in foreign relations, but also gave us relevance on the international scene. If Britain came through and started regulating how we did everything - it could change the way a lot of people did business with us (or make it so that they could not do business with us).

Compare this scenario to Palestine.... what the hell good are they? That's blunt... but, really, why should anyone care to consider them an independent nation?

See here.

No, I don't see.

You've, obviously, not seen very many pictures of what it looked like when Germany and the Allies were going at each other. "Precision" bombing was leveling several city blocks that contained the target building. And I do mean leveling. Several hundred 500lb general-purpose bombs would rain down over the course of a few minutes as the bombers flew their pattern.

The kind of bombing Israel does is friggin' voodoo magic by comparison, with single bombs used to destroy single buildings.

Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by backinblack

 

I don't need to suck anything up because your opinions of Israel means SQUAT to me!

I guess you didn't notice that's pretty much what I said about you..

reply to post by Aim64C

Compare this scenario to Palestine.... what the hell good are they? That's blunt... but, really, why should anyone care to consider them an independent nation?

What a racist comment !!!

They are human, just like you and me...

reply to post by backinblack

What a racist comment !!!

I think you're a bit confused.

Did I, ever, ask for any kind of ethnic or racial information?

I simply asked why we should give a damned.

They are human, just like you and me...

So are North Koreans. So are the African tribes.

So, too, are people like Kim Jong Il and the drug/war lords fighting for power in Africa.

Let's not beat around the bush. What good are they? Why should we recognize them as a sovereign nation? Do they make, sell, or do anything worth our recognition?

Being human means a bunch of different things.

You can call me whatever you want. At the end of the day, I am willing to make a distinction between the people I want to interact with, and the people I do not. So, too, are nations.

If you want to take a look at a similar issue - see Taiwan. Why do we treat them as an independent country from China? Because their independence is worthwhile to us. Are they officially their own nation? No. Hell will freeze over before we officially recognize Taiwan as an independent nation, because China will go ape# over the issue, and we really don't need to deal with that whole song and dance.

Why does no one -officially- recognize Taiwan as an independent nation? Because China will piss on you if you do (and, in our case, may invade Taiwan out of spite). Why does everyone -treat- Taiwan as an independent nation? Because they are quite capable of interacting with the rest of the world as an independent nation should.

There's a reason no one gives a damn about Palestine. If China were to push the issue on Taiwan - we would likely back them up (along with Japan, Korea, Australia, and a few others that are right there in the area). Israel moves their borders a few miles into the Gaza Strip, and there's a lot of talk to keep the OPEC nations from deciding to sever ties with the rest of us (who really would rather deal with Israel, anyway). But no real action. When there is action - we back up Israel.

reply to post by Aim64C

There's a reason no one gives a damn about Palestine. If China were to push the issue on Taiwan - we would likely back them up (along with Japan, Korea, Australia, and a few others that are right there in the area). Israel moves their borders a few miles into the Gaza Strip, and there's a lot of talk to keep the OPEC nations from deciding to sever ties with the rest of us (who really would rather deal with Israel, anyway). But no real action. When there is action - we back up Israel.

Are you ill informed or ignorant?

It's only our leaders that think and act that way..

The people are waking up in droves to what is really going on..

Care to show me a poll that shows the majority backing Israel over Palestine???

And stop with the "we" crap..You certainly don't speak for me.