Obama Says He Believes Jesus Christ Is Lord

Originally posted by ProphecyPhD
Well the other thread got closed so i guess we will have to keep it here.

I am not saying Obama is or isn't a bad guy. I am just wondering if my fellow ATS'ers believe that a Muslim or te anti-christ would proclaim Jesus Christ as lord?

Jesus is very real and in fact the most famous man ever born. The only other man that could come even remotely close to Jesus Christ is Adam (the first man). For Jesus to attain such respect and notability means he had to have done something GREAT. Imho Jesus Christ is in fact God.

As I've mentioned above, the Anti-Christ doesn't know he's the Anti-Christ. The current "Anti-Christ" as mentioned in the Bible, is still just a man - until he suffers a wound, implying that the man who once was, has died. After that, the Devil himself possesses the body, and arises from the dead, claiming to be God.

Although, I agree a Muslim wouldn't do it, even though they acknowledge Jesus Christ and mention him more times in their own Koran more than Muhammad, they still only recognize him as a Prophet. But, again, as mentioned, this could just be politics being politics.

reply to post by CharterZZ


Can you name another "man" from the 1st century who is as recognized and has had as big of an impact on the world as Jesus did?

Text
- If Jesus did not actually rise from the dead, why did the disciples go from frightened, timid followers of Jesus before his death, to bold evangelists willing to die preaching his resurrection if they just really made the whole thing up and he was still dead?

- Why were the disciples willing to be tortured and killed for a known lie?
You don't need a a degree in psychology to know people do not die for a cause they know to be false. People do certainly die for false beliefs all the time, but they think they are dying for the truth. Example, Hale-Bopp. Heaven's Gate. The people who believed beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Hale-Bopp comet had a fleet of UFOs behind it, and would bring destruction on Earth once it passed. They killed themselves when it passed, hoping to hitch a ride out of here. Obviously they were wrong, and we're still here.

The apostles, on the other hand, would have known if it was a lie or not, and if they chose to cover it up to save their own butts from humiliation of being wrong, they would have to suffer the pain of torture, humiliation (regardless), mockery, persecution, and ultimately death.

Logically, one does not die for a belief that they know is wrong. In this case, they knew they were right. Because Jesus did rise.

These are just 2 questions out of many that would arise should Jesus have been 'just a man'.
- If Jesus did not actually rise from the dead, why did the disciples go from frightened, timid followers of Jesus before his death, to bold evangelists willing to die preaching his resurrection if they just really made the whole thing up and he was still dead?

- Why were the disciples willing to be tortured and killed for a known lie?
You don't need a a degree in psychology to know people do not die for a cause they know to be false. People do certainly die for false beliefs all the time, but they think they are dying for the truth. Example, Hale-Bopp. Heaven's Gate. The people who believed beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Hale-Bopp comet had a fleet of UFOs behind it, and would bring destruction on Earth once it passed. They killed themselves when it passed, hoping to hitch a ride out of here. Obviously they were wrong, and we're still here.

The apostles, on the other hand, would have known if it was a lie or not, and if they chose to cover it up to save their own butts from humiliation of being wrong, they would have to suffer the pain of torture, humiliation (regardless), mockery, persecution, and ultimately death.

Logically, one does not die for a belief that they know is wrong. In this case, they knew they were right. Because Jesus did rise.

Everything you have said here is hearsay at best. You do not have one single shred of evidence to support anything you have claimed, other than the demented and contradictory ramblings of some ancient scribes who rose from illiterate fishermen to authors of half the bible,finishing off what God forgot to tell Moses, i guess.

Which one of the precious gospels gives the true account of the crucifiction? Or even better which gospelS are lying about it. You can't have your cake, eat it and then try and sell it on, unless you know someone who invests in vomit.

Your entire body of evidence is a bunch of parchment which can easily be contradicted by similar bunches of parchment or stone tablets, both contemporary and precedent.

Jesus is the patron saint of child rapists, and Goldman Suchs, the financial rapists.

reply to post by blah yada


So according to your dissertation on the validity of scripture, no written historical accounts can be accepted as truth.

Originally posted by blah yada
Everything you have said here is hearsay at best. You do not have one single shred of evidence to support anything you have claimed, other than the demented and contradictory ramblings of some ancient scribes who rose from illiterate fishermen to authors of half the bible,finishing off what God forgot to tell Moses, i guess.

Which one of the precious gospels gives the true account of the crucifiction? Or even better which gospelS are lying about it. You can't have your cake, eat it and then try and sell it on, unless you know someone who invests in vomit.

Your entire body of evidence is a bunch of parchment which can easily be contradicted by similar bunches of parchment or stone tablets, both contemporary and precedent.

The issue isn't proof in the scripture, the question comes from the motives. I guess if you're going to nitpick, I should expect it to go hand-in-hand with insults. What is clear, is that there did exist several followers/witnesses of a man who existed in the first century, and an event which took place that sprung up a rise in the Christian faith.

If you deny this, I beg you to come up with a better explanation, otherwise, you are a fool.

Take these questions into consideration:

- Why would they (the apostles) make up the resurrection story if Jesus turned out to be a fraud?

- What was their motive? Couldn't be fame, status, wealth, or popularity, because all they got, was hatred, scorn, persecution, excommunication, imprisonment, exiled, beheaded, tortured, and crucified.

- How do the disciples, 12 ordinary people, pull off such a hoax? Remember, this "hoax" would trigger thousands of skeptics per day to convert to following their scam as well as redirect the entire world to even eventually change their calenders and establish their hoax character, Jesus, as the best known religious figure in all of humanity.

- Why would thousands of people immediately convert if Jesus didn't actually rise from the dead? As many as 3000 in a single day, in fact. It's recorded that after the crucifixion, Jesus appeared alive over a span of 40 days, and to "500 brethren" (back then, only men were counted in crowd totals, so factoring in women, and children, he could have appeared to several thousand more).

- Why would the disciples make themselves look bad in the Gospels? If you're going to make up a story, it wouldn't be optimal to portray yourself as a coward.

- How did Saul of Tarsus, chief persecutor of Christians, convert to become the Apostle Paul, if he didn't really have an encounter with a risen Jesus?

- How could the disciples even steal the body in the first place? Assuming he didn't rise, the Apostles would have to have removed the evidence. The tomb was under 24 hour watch by Roman guards trained to kill. How would cowardly apostles do this? And as asked above, with what motive? It doesn't seem like a very big payoff. Why not just move on with life? Why beat a dead horse, under penalty of death?

Jesus is the patron saint of child rapists, and Goldman Suchs, the financial rapists.

Child rapists? You've clearly never heard of Muhammad..

Actually..lf you want to know the honest truth? Yes...Muslims are permitted per Mohammed, that they can lie in order to draw people in...and yes..the AntiChrist..is the AntiChrist for a reason...he would most definitely lie. Does this mean I believe Obama is Muslim or the AntiChrist? NO. I believe Obama thought he'd get in there and get the job done, and upon entering the White House found out something very significant...the President is just the scapegoat, he no longer has any real power.

There is no evidence that Jesus existed.... None.


Oh sorry.... None outside the Bible.


No first hand/eyewitness accounts... It's mostly 3rd hand accounts.
Jesus is almost completely missing from the historical records and those that mention him are mostly fraudulent.
All documents about Jesus came well after the life of the "alleged" Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who'd never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings.

Every single source for Jesus.... Is hearsay.

reply to post by blupblup


Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the younger...just off the top of my head.

Denying the divinity of Jesus is one thing, denying that a man named Jesus walked the earth in the first century is just foolishness.

By your logic King Tut or Hammurabi did not exist as well.

Originally posted by blupblup
There is no evidence that Jesus existed.... None.


Oh sorry.... None outside the Bible.


No first hand/eyewitness accounts... It's mostly 3rd hand accounts.
Jesus is almost completely missing from the historical records and those that mention him are mostly fraudulent.
All documents about Jesus came well after the life of the "alleged" Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who'd never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings.

Every single source for Jesus.... Is hearsay.

So, Jesus never existed, yet tens of thousands of people converted to Christianity in the first century, our bloody calendars got changed to fit in accordance with it, and he remains the most widely recognized religious figure today.

Why..?

All those "heresy" documents people like to talk about, were in fact removed. Council of Nicea anyone? People like to throw that around, but when it's convenient for them. Any documents which were just complete metaphors, or were not eye-witness accounts, or were otherwise were unreliable, were thrown out. The ones that are in the Bible today, are in for a reason.

reply to post by Lionhearte


Remember, The preaching of the cross to those that perish is foolishness. They neither see nor desire to see for they have been blinded by the god of this world.

On topic:
As for Jesus being the patron saint of Goldman Sachs, apparently someone has not read the Talmud. Now just because Obama has said that he believes that Jesus is Lord, even Satan believes that but doesn't want to accept it. Neither does Obama have to accept it either, he is merely stating a fact and believes it to be true. There is no mention of his acceptance of it.

Yes it is acceptable for a Muslim to lie to gain advantage according to the Koran. Yet they profess to believe in the laws of Moses and the Ten Commandments. What part of; Thou shalt no bare false witness against thy neighbor, do they not understand?

During Watergate, 7 of the most powerful men in the world couldn't keep a secret for 2 weeks and once caught, sang like Canaries. People think that 11 disciples hoaxed the resurrection of Jesus by stealing the body and keeping that secret unto death even death by crucifixion. Then Saul of Tarsus (Paul) converts and is scourged 3 times and finally beheaded for his preaching of this. Remember Saul approved of Jesus being crucified. Since 7 of the most powerful men couldn't keep a secret for two weeks, what makes you think 11 nobodies and Paul would for over 40 years and be willing to die for it? Deny ignorance or embrace it's your choice.

Originally posted by pstrron
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

Remember, The preaching of the cross to those that perish is foolishness. They neither see nor desire to see for they have been blinded by the god of this world.

On topic:
As for Jesus being the patron saint of Goldman Sachs, apparently someone has not read the Talmud. Now just because Obama has said that he believes that Jesus is Lord, even Satan believes that but doesn't want to accept it. Neither does Obama have to accept it either, he is merely stating a fact and believes it to be true. There is no mention of his acceptance of it.

Yes it is acceptable for a Muslim to lie to gain advantage according to the Koran. Yet they profess to believe in the laws of Moses and the Ten Commandments. What part of; Thou shalt no bare false witness against thy neighbor, do they not understand?

During Watergate, 7 of the most powerful men in the world couldn't keep a secret for 2 weeks and once caught, sang like Canaries. People think that 11 disciples hoaxed the resurrection of Jesus by stealing the body and keeping that secret unto death even death by crucifixion. Then Saul of Tarsus (Paul) converts and is scourged 3 times and finally beheaded for his preaching of this. Remember Saul approved of Jesus being crucified. Since 7 of the most powerful men couldn't keep a secret for two weeks, what makes you think 11 nobodies and Paul would for over 40 years and be willing to die for it? Deny ignorance or embrace it's your choice.

edit on 9/27/2011 by pstrron because: corrections to text

i love you my brother and i appreciate your post.

Originally posted by ProphecyPhD

So there you have it folks, President Obama is a Christian. Would a Muslim say that Jesus Christ is Lord? Would the anti-christ say that Jesus Christ is Lord? He didn't say son of the lord or a prophet, he said "I believe Jesus Christ is Lord".

I guess he's not a reptilian or any other thing besides an African-American human man that believes in Jesus Christ and worked/studied hard enough to win the presidency. Nothing to see here folks, lets move along.

On another note, how many of you believe the heckler should be arrested and convicted like These Kids

Even Satan acknowledges that Jesus Christ is Lord and he hates him with a passion.


JAS 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

LK 10:17 The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons submit to us in your name."

LK 10:18 He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you. However, do not rejoice that the spirits submit to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven."

MT 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.






MT 8:28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. "What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"

Originally posted by ProphecyPhD
Well the other thread got closed so i guess we will have to keep it here.

I am not saying Obama is or isn't a bad guy. I am just wondering if my fellow ATS'ers believe that a Muslim or te anti-christ would proclaim Jesus Christ as lord?

Jesus is very real and in fact the most famous man ever born. The only other man that could come even remotely close to Jesus Christ is Adam (the first man). For Jesus to attain such respect and notability means he had to have done something GREAT. Imho Jesus Christ is in fact God.

Amen to that brother.


Additionally, a muslim can say Jesus Christ is Lord. Check out the practice called "Taqqiya".

Obama has a father but not the Father.


JN 8:42 Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don't you believe me? He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God."



Can anyone find one campaign promise that Obama has kept?

reply to post by XplanetX


You have answered every question that i asked in this thread and i thank you for that. Now i am off to study, i am satisfied for now.

Everyone feel free to continue to debate in this thread but my questions have been answered.

God bless

Originally posted by micmerci
reply to post by blupblup

 

Josephus,

Ahhh they guy who wrote about Jesus 60+ years after Jesus' death? And AFTER the first gospels were written...

The guy who was born after Jesus died and would obviously never have met him.... just heard the stories, hearsay.


So Nope... sorry.


(also there is also speculation that this account is fraudulent)

Tacitus,

Again, born well after Jesus' death..... mentions only "Christus" and not JESUS and wrote his "annals" book during the formation of Christianity....

Again, his writings are based on Hearsay....

So Nope... next.

Pliny the younger...just off the top of my head.

Another "Christo" (Christos...blah blah) reference.... with no mention of Jesus.


They were most likely praying to and unwilling to renounce Serapis. (In the letter he wrote regarding the Christiani)

The thing is for every "mention" of Chrits, christos, chrestos etc etc.... there are other letters that mention that these terms are used for other gods such as Osiris and Serapis.

In fact Osiris was called Chrestos centuries before the copycat Jesus was ever invented.

Denying the divinity of Jesus is one thing, denying that a man named Jesus walked the earth in the first century is just foolishness.

By your logic King Tut or Hammurabi did not exist as well.

Uh huh..... no, believing the nonsense makes you as gullible as 2000 year old suckers who also fell for this garbage.


Only now are all of these things being properly examined and found out.

The Bible is not the word of god... just copies of other stories from earlier on and other places at the time.

Jesus Christ never existed and even if he did (which he did not) he was not the son of god.





Isn't it funny that nobody thought Jesus worthy enough to write about while he was alive?

This miraculous guy who brought the dead back to life and walked on water and so on.... NOBODY thought it important to keep a record or even write an account of any of it.



Okaaaaayyyy

Originally posted by Lionhearte
So, Jesus never existed, yet tens of thousands of people converted to Christianity in the first century, our bloody calendars got changed to fit in accordance with it, and he remains the most widely recognized religious figure today.

Fear... control.

Gullibility.


think about it.


Also this thread is about Obama.... I'm done.

Start another thread and we'll happily carry on there.

Originally posted by pstrron
reply to post by Lionhearte

 

As for Jesus being the patron saint of Goldman Sachs, apparently someone has not read the Talmud.

edit on 9/27/2011 by pstrron because: corrections to text

Apparently someone has missed my point.