The Peculiar Death Of Bobby..

reply to post by Rising Against


I think it's great that you care at all about the assassination and you're not even American. I tried to say this to you in a reply message but I can only private message ATS "staff" or whatever.

A wonderful thread RA! S&F as usual!The murder of RFK was one of the transforming events in recent US history.Sirhan was a product of MK Ultra there is no doubt in my mind about that.RFK was threatening the oligarchy far to much to be allowed to leave LA alive.

reply to post by Rising Against


That security guard Thane Eugene Cesar picture reminds me of the Mailman in Three Days of the Condor.

Assassins are usually dressed to blend in with their surroundings. You would never suspect them as they walk right up on you, and the best result is that they do their deed quickly and quietly slip away. At least in this case.

a man after my own heart....nice work bro, star and flag from me

I'm really glad that you take the time to select a topic and you really go in-depth. Your posts are like "enhanced" wiki-pedia articles! Excellent Work, Rising You are a fantastic asset to ATS!

As a result of this thread I learned that the Ambassador Hotel was demolished!

JFK had terrible health. If CIA had wanted him dead, they would have found a way to poison him and give him cancer or a heart attack. Shooting was Lyndon Johnson and the mob (Carlos Marcello) style.
But I repeat myself when I say Lyndon and the mob.
I don't think MK ultra is reliable enough technology for high level government people to use for assassinations. I like the theory of two separate hit teams unknown to each other shooting RFK, but the odds of them shooting him at the same time purely by accident is not likely.
The timing of the hit, after RFK won California and was odds on favorite to win the presidency, would indicate LBJ and/or NIxon ordered the hit. Nixon had the most to gain, and was mob connected. Hoffa would have liked to see RFK whacked at any opportunity, but it is unlikely Hoffa ever had anyone killed in his life, unlike lightening banana juice. LBJ was depressed and unstable at the time, so he is a possibility.
My vote is for Nixon. The hit was far too unprofessional to be CIA, more like a typical mob hit. Drugging Sirhan Sirhan, putting a gun in his hand, seems to falls more inline with mob tactics than CIA.

reply to post by Alien Abduct


Hey Alien Abduct,

First off I'm soo very sorry for the slow reply here. I've been quite busy lately (see the last link in my sig as to why) and I've not been on ATS as much as I would've liked these past few days.

Anyway, I'm not even sure if I can answer some of your questions there also but I did just do a little bit of research on this issue and once again I've found some rather interesting information from the MFF (Mary Ferrell Foundation). Here it is:

But what about Sirhan's defense team? Wouldn't this evidence have to be given to his lawyers, and then come out a trial?

Several factors worked against this. First, not all evidence was shared with Sirhan's lawyers. Even the autopsy report, whose conclusion of point-blank shots from the rear would seemingly exonerate Sirhan of RFK's actual murder, was not given to the defense until they had already stipulated Sirhan's guilt. The defense early on decide to pursue a "diminished capacity" defense, and the autopsy report didn't change that strategy.
It is important to understand the motivations of each side in the legal system's "great engine of truth." Neither side had anything to gain by bringing in evidence of conspiracy. For the prosecution, it would simply muddle what otherwise seemed a simple case. And for the defense, conspiracy implies pre-meditation, and thus knowing guilt. Introducing evidence of accomplices would not be helpful to their client.
Sirhan Sirhan was his own worst enemy at the trial, using it as a platform for expressing anti-Semitic political views and touting the Arab cause. Whether these issues were really motivation for a shooting he claims not to remember executing remains a mystery.

Finally, Sirhan's later attorney Lawrence Teeter uncovered evidence that Sirhan's lead trial lawyer, Grant Cooper, was compromised. Cooper was on one of the defense teams in the Friar's Club scandal case, a defendant in which was none other than Johnny Roselli, and one day grand jury papers were found on Cooper's desk at counsel table, possibly planted there, perhaps by Roselli himself. Cooper faced a potential indictment over this incident, which could be grounds for disbarment, and the matter was left pending for the duration of the Sirhan trial. Afterwards, Cooper was let off with a $1000 fine.

Sirhan Bishara Sirhan was found guilty of first-degree murder and sentenced to death. While he was on death row, California abolished the death penalty, and commuted his sentence to life in prison, where he remains. Attorney Lawrence Teeter was fighting for a retrial at the time of his own death in 2005.

(Source)



Here's another source that may be of some interest to you: The official website of Lawrence Teeter, attorney for Sirhan Sirhan

As a result of both (1) the blackmailing of defense attorney Cooper and his resultant collaboration with the prosecution and (2) the systematic withholding and falsification of evidence by the prosecution, the jury which convicted Sirhan never knew the following:

1. Senator Kennedy was shot in the back and from behind. Yet all witnesses placed Sirhan as standing face-to-face in front of RFK.

2. Sirhan's gun was placed by all witnesses at between 2 and 5 feet from the victim, but the autopsy report states that the distance between the assailant's gun and the victim was between 1 and 2 inches.

3. The shots entering the victim's body were fired at a sharp upward angle, but the defendant was seen by all witnesses to hold his gun horizontally.

4. The autopsy report which exonerates the defendant was withheld from the court and the defense by prosecutors for at least four months, until after defense counsel had conceded to the jury that their client was the killer--something which the autopsy report demonstrates to be impossible.

5. Thane Eugene Cesar, a recently-hired part-time private security guard who worked full-time for Lockheed Aircraft, admitted to police that he was standing behind and in actual contact with Senator Kennedy, that he dropped down into a crouching position and that he pulled his gun when the shooting began. This account puts the security guard and not the defendant in position to have shot RFK.

6. Cesar falsely advised police that he had sold his .22 revolver before the crime. A receipt proves that it was actually sold after the crime. One witness, media assistant Don Schulman, stated that Cesar actually fired his gun during the assassination. The prosecution ignored and even pressured this witness along with others whose accounts suggested a conspiracy.

7. The Los Angeles Police Department (LAPD) never test ...

Due to character limits, please see the above source at this time.

Hello everyone,

Long time reader here, although this is my first post.

I have a great deal of interest in post war American politics, with a particular "keen eye" for the Kennedy's.

What I would like to add is this:

In the immediate aftermath of the shooting, only minutes after it happend when the news first started running the story, they interviewed an eye witness who was standing near Kennedy when he was shot. He stated that after Sirhan fired three shots, Kennedy's bodyguard (Cesar?) fired several shots back also. You can see and hear this on youtube (would anyone like the link or me to post the video? sorry not sure what link/video rules here are yet)

Was Cesar firing at Sirhan? or Kennedy?

reply to post by MisterBlack

(would anyone like the link or me to post the video? sorry not sure what link/video rules here are yet)

Well If you could post it then I for one would certainly appreciate it. I'm still trying to understand this case fully myself here so the more information like this that can be provided then surely the better.

Was Cesar firing at Sirhan? or Kennedy?

Due to the injuries sustained by Kennedy, the 2 shots to the body and also the head shot, not forgetting the rest of the information I provided in the opening post, particularly how Cesar lied about his actions after the assassination and his connections before it, It seems almost impossible to believe he was firing at anyone other than the original target in all of this - Bobby Kennedy. For me anyway.

Of course though there is still a possibility that he very well may have been firing at Sirhan here but surely upon the first shot striking Kennedy, a shot at point blank range let us not forget, he simply would've stopped firing at that point. Not continued to do it subsequently striking the Senator 2 more times once again at point blank range.

That's just my thoughts on it. Anyway welcome to ATS. Nice first post. Starred.

Originally posted by Rising Against


Well If you could post it then I for one would certainly appreciate it. I'm still trying to understand this case fully myself here so the more information like this that can be provided then surely the better.

Heres the video. If you watch from around 4.25 it has the excerpt im reffering to.



Thank you for the warm welcome

A good article on Nixon mob connections, with some discussion regarding RFK and JFK.
crimemagazine.com...

and another one:
crimemagazine.com...


Nixon wanted Jack Anderson assassinated.
crimemagazine.com...

Nixon knew E Howard Hunt was at Marthas Vineyard the weekend Teddy had his 'accident'. John Dean is heard on tape telling Nixon that if Teddy had only known the trap Teddy was walking into.


crimemagazine.com...
One man stated Nixon wanted him to participate in killing Teddy and George Wallace. When Wallace was shot, Nixon asked if one of his people had done it. Wallace believed Nixon was behind his shooting.

reply to post by Rising Against


Hole-lee-shizzle. WoW OMG I am astounded. This is insane. This just demonstrates how powerful and influential TPTB was and I'm sure their power has only grown. people need to wake up, stick together and fight this evil soon else we are doomed.

Thanks so much for the informative reply.

-Alien

reply to post by Matt1951


Great links there Matt. Thanks a ton for sharing them!

Very informative stuff no doubt..

reply to post by Alien Abduct

Thanks so much for the informative reply.

It's fine, I just hope you found it interesting.

If I find more sources of that nature I'll be sure to post them here.

reply to post by Rising Against


Hi Rising Against-
I always enjoy reading your threads. When E Howard Hunt was blackmailing Nixon during Watergate, and Hunt's wife Dorothy was killed in a plane crash in Chicago (she was the bagman). And then I think how Hunt was in Dallas, during JFK's assassination. And Hunt was on site during the Teddy running off the bridge weekend - as confirmed by Nixon and John Dean on Watergate tapes. Dean stating that if only Teddy knew what he was running into. Dean is just as criminal as Nixon on these tapes. It is highly unlikely Teddy fooled around with Mary Jo Kopechne, considering her character, not his.
Excuse my poor sentences, but it seems to me Nixon is a common thread. He had employed Jack Ruby as early as the late 1940s.
While earlier in my life I was a Nixon supporter, the more I learn, the more appalled I am.

reply to post by Matt1951

While earlier in my life I was a Nixon supporter, the more I learn, the more appalled I am.

Ever notice how quite a few other Presidents (who were presidents after the murder of JFK) were seemingly involved in the case in some way or another as well? Johnson of course, Nixon as you said, Ford also has strong connections to the JFK case (hell, he served on the Warren Commission), not forgetting the seemingly strong connections to George W. Bush.

I'm looking into it a bit more and I'll maybe write up a thread in the future (although I have no time right now) but I find the fact that quite a few presidents, at least 3 of them in a row, came about after Kennedy's death. It could obviously just be a coincidence, and it most probably is, but I think there's potentially something in that and It very well could be an overlooked angle to the case.

It's all nothing but speculation of course but I think It's possible that there's some connection between involvement in the case or the cover-up thereafter and obtaining the biggest reward possible.. help in reaching the most powerful position in America, the presidency.

Anyway, just some food for thought I guess.

A lot of people died to clear the way for Nixon to rise to power: JFK, MLK, RFK. Plus Ted Kennedy was out after that incident at Chappaquidik, and Gov George Wallace was knocked out of the race to due an assassin's bullets.

reply to post by starviego


I really do believe that a great deal of mere civilians were also "removed" for whatever reason. The "Mysterious death list" is actually quite well known but I ended up writing a thread on it here anyway: The Forgotten Victims to a Genuine Conspiracy

I tried to list as much neccesary information about all of them, the circumstances of how they died, connection to the case and so on, as I could. Obviously not all of them will have died as a result of a conspiracy, hell not any of them are confirmed to have done in the first place, but It's very possible at least some did, IMO and I tried to list why.

I just saw a new post from another member on this thread of mine here but as I felt it might be a bit more suitable in this thread, I thought it was worth re-posting:

Originally posted by the2ofusr1

The latest audio bit in the whole mess .... "Sirhan Sirhan and the Assassination of RFK" with Lawrence Teeter. Presentation to the press by Sirhan Sirhan's attorney, Lawrence Teeter, (now deceased) at the Coalition on Political Assassinations conference on the 35th anniversary of that assassination, June 2003. William Pepper is currently representing Sirhan. www.kpfa.org... If you haven't contemplated these little surtitles on the story then maybe its time to consider the small insignificance's to let go of the doctrine of the official story ...peace

STILL?!?

How long are you guys going to obsess about these guys.

Here, let me help you let go. If you want to obsess about this family, you want to start watching Christopher Schwarzenegger. He's the only interesting one in the current batch.

Look forward. The ones that got killed off by a consortium of mobsters, secret service, military won't be brought back.