'Stingray' Phone Tracker Fuels Constitutional Clash

'Stingray' Phone Tracker Fuels Constitutional Clash

online.wsj.com

Stingrays are designed to locate a mobile phone even when it's not being used to make a call. The Federal Bureau of Investigation considers the devices to be so critical that it has a policy of deleting the data gathered in their use, mainly to keep suspects in the dark about their capabilities, an FBI official told The Wall Street Journal in response to inquiries.

The sheriff's department in Maricopa County, Ariz., uses the equipment "about on a monthly basis," says Sgt. Jesse Spurgin.

(visit the link for the full news article)

I certainly see the need for LE to have this kind of technology. Helping track down a very dangerous fugitive or kidnap victim is a noble goal for this kind of tech. On the flip side, I highly doubt there is any oversight whatsoever in using these devices. I had no idea that local Sheriffs office had access to this thing. I'm also a little surprised that there is no warrant needed to use one. They apparently can't listen in on the phone calls, but I have trouble believing that. I am also troubled that they wipe the things before thy have to go to court. Perhaps not as sinister as the FBI's Carnivore, but still...

Just goes to show that all of our technology, the things we think make are life easier are actually making it easier to be oppressed/ spied on by our own government.

online.wsj.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

I was expecting a few more comments I suppose I will have to self bump.

Just got a U2U from member THE_PROFESSIONAL

You can block stingray by keeping phone off or taking out the batteries (sorry for us iphone users). Another option would be to purchase a cell phone jammer or construct one because the article mentions that it uses the cell phone frequencies. Iphone 4 for instance operateson 800, 900, 1800, and 1900 Mhz i believe; not to mention the 802.11b (2.4 ghz) and bluetooth bands. All these need to be jammed if you want to retain invisible. The simplest option would be to keep the phone off.

Posted with permission.

Thanks!

I don't think simply turning a phone off does the trick. Removing the batteries might, but what a hassle.

Instead, get yourself some lead tape from the hardware store and make yourself a lead-lined box to store your phone in when not in use.

Note that crooks are using hacked microcells to fool phones into affiliating with them.

If you want to make phone calls in the presence of a stingray without revealing your location, use a phone equipped with UMA. In the US, that would be a Blackberry on T-Mob. Obviously you need to turn off the mobile connection and only use wifi. Now if law enforcement has your MAC, they could locate you via a packet sniffer.

Crooks just use burner phones.

Note that crooks are using hacked microcells to fool phones into affiliating with them.

If you want to make phone calls in the presence of a stingray without revealing your location, use a phone equipped with UMA. In the US, that would be a Blackberry on T-Mob. Obviously you need to turn off the mobile connection and only use wifi. Now if law enforcement has your MAC, they could locate you via a packet sniffer.

Crooks just use burner phones.

Don't turn it into amateur hour...dump the phone.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


I think you're right. As I understand phones have another battery in addition to the main one. I don't know if there is much you can do to avoid the tracking.

There is a reason warrants are supposed to be obtained. Imagine they are doing this to the wrong person...

Would you want them tracking a family member, seeing them carry boxes and assume something is in them? (Even if it's just a birthday cake)

There are some pretty bad cases of mistaken identity out there, this just makes it more likely. Bought a phone off someone on a watch list did you? Uh oh...






Not only that, completely against people's rights. If you think it is going to help police find victims, you are buying into basic/standard fear mongering, peddling.

Please do protect us Mr. _______.

Originally posted by boncho
There is a reason warrants are supposed to be obtained. Imagine they are doing this to the wrong person...

No, no, no, you have it all wrong. Honestly, I am of the opinion that it would be in our best interest to repeal every amendment to the Constitution, declare martial law, and let the government decide for us whatever it is that needs to be done in order to keep us safe from the al-Qaeda under my kitchen table. There's absolutely nothing asinine about that idea, Ron Paul is crazy, our Founding Fathers are crazy, and Obama should be King of the United States because he's black and you're racist if you think otherwise.

Originally posted by ForeverDusk
No, no, no, you have it all wrong. Honestly, I am of the opinion that it would be in our best interest to repeal every amendment to the Constitution, declare martial law, and let the government decide for us whatever it is that needs to be done in order to keep us safe from the al-Qaeda under my kitchen table. There's absolutely nothing asinine about that idea, Ron Paul is crazy, our Founding Fathers are crazy, and Obama should be King of the United States because he's black and you're racist if you think otherwise.

I believe you are correct in that assessment. That is the direction we are heading, that is where they want us to go. It is in our own self-interest to stop resisting, turn ourselves over to them and give them whatever else they want. If we resist they are just going to make it tougher and deplete revenues which would otherwise be wasted. They will go easier on us if we cooperate with them. We must go peacefully. Resistance is futile. We will be assimilated.

Oh, sorry. I thought this was that mind-reading device thread.

reply to post by Domo1


Your are thinking of a "bridging battery", sometimes found in notebook computers that have modular batteries. Computers need to keep their real time clock up to date, hence the extra battery. A cell phone get's it time set from the network. Anything else it needs to store is done in flash. Any phone I ever owned is dead once you pull the battery.

You're kind of screwed with "captive battery" phones like the iphone and some similar Samsung models.

reply to post by gariac


You're exactly right that's what I was thinking of. Still could have sworn phones had them. If not, good!

Now let's talk about Iphone's being a conspiracy by big govt. Can't take out the battery, can't hide. Also, ha ha we get more money.

Just wrap the phone in foil.... Your good to go.... homemade faraday cage.

Originally posted by gariac

You're kind of screwed with "captive battery" phones like the iphone and some similar Samsung models.

Nope, Tin foil works... I used to keep my phone near my stereo speakers, it bothered me that I can hear it connecting to the cell towers every hour, so I wrapped it up in foil problem solved.

If your worried about them tracking you, just wrap it in tin foil or put it in a metal enclosure. It's silly that people take their batteries out lol... that's to much trouble.

Originally posted by gariac
Now if law enforcement has your MAC, they could locate you via a packet sniffer.

How do you figure?

reply to post by RestingInPieces


mac.softpedia.com...

If you have linux, load up kismet. It is a free packet sniffer. You can spot all the wifi activity. If you are setting up a wireless network, you really need to do this. Some networks are stealth (no SSID broadcast). You don't want to interfere with that stealth network, even though the admin was a bit of a jerk by not broadcasting the SSID. [Those Symbol barcode readers are notorious for being stealth.] Some newer routers can fine stealth networks. If you want to do a complete site survey, you need to scan for wireless video too. It is in the same band. If you are doing a commercial set up, you'd probably want to monitor for a few days since some people turn their router on and off.

I sniffed my own packets and found a few security holes in my Blackberry that I fixed. Basically the phone was probing every place I ever used wifi and had saved the configuration. Most phones have this feature. So the phone was spewing out coffee shops and hotels where I had used wifi. Now Starbucks isn't all that unique, but if you pair up your wifi with WAPs that have unqiue SSIDs, then you are revealing your hangouts. [Suppose you save a wifi profile at some unsavory place. Strip club, brothel, Ron Paul for President office, etc.) [Hey, that was a joke.] Computers do this too (windows, mac, even linux) depending on how you save your wifi profiles. It is not a security risk in that you will get hacked, but it does show a bit about your habits, or at least geeky habits.

Windows XP is just the worst at spewing out wifi junk. The classic is "hpsetup".
blog.chron.com...
You see this all the time. In general, the worse thing you can do is connector your wireless device to some random ad hoc network, which is what hpsetup is. I'm not sure if it is a security issue for the person running XP. Blackberry will "see" an ad hoc, but will never pair up with one. The OS blocks it because it is way too risky even if you think you know who the ad hoc network is.
www.airdefense.net...

The iphone will connector to an ad hoc right out of the box. No hacking needed. Android as far as I know needs a bit of hacking to connect to an ad hoc network. Seriously, this is a bad idea.

The iphone doesn't have a battery door to save money. If you ever design some electronic product, cases are just insanely expensive. A slide off door...hey, that will cost you. Same goes for sockets. [No SDHC for apple either.] Some really cheap notebooks solder the memory chips just to avoid buying sockets.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Aluminum foil will do the trick. Lead is for radiation. In case anyone in wondering, there hasn't been tin foil for years, probably decades. Basically the surface has to be conductive.

Originally posted by gariac
reply to post by Blackmarketeer

 

Aluminum foil will do the trick. Lead is for radiation. In case anyone in wondering, there hasn't been tin foil for years, probably decades. Basically the surface has to be conductive.

lol your right, some reason I was thinking tin foil hat. doh... but yeah Aluminum foil will work on any phone or wifi device to block the signal etc.

reply to post by gariac


Lead, aluminum, copper, any of those should work, even better if they're grounded. A mesh screen would also work, so long as the mesh was smaller than the amplitude of the RF signal being blocked and again was properly grounded. I think for routine use, it might be easier to line a box (like a cigar box) with lead tape (like 3M Lead Foil Tape) rather than aluminum foil to ensure there are no kinks and creases that leak RF. But then again, they do make some thick commercial-grade aluminum foil, and it would be a whole lot cheaper...

BTW the tin foil hat has gotten a much-needed fashion makeover, it now comes in scarves, balaclavas, and socks too - Personal EMF Shielding Devices

And a simple faraday cage PDF here

ETA: the important concept here is that any technology can be used to track you - if you can connect to the system, the system can connect back to you. Given the Bush era "warrantless wiretapping" is now the rule, I would seek any measure that can curtail surveillance against me.