WTC 1/2 Collapse: I was a truther. Not any longer.

Sorry, but as other posters have pointed out, the perfect symmetry of both collapses told me this wasn't due to a jet hitting it and causing a big fire which melted the steel. An asymmetrical hit on the building meant an uneven distribution of damage and fire. If the buildings had fallen off to one side, like when a tree is cut, I would be more likely to believe the total collapses were due to it being hit by planes, but when something falls at free-fall speed into its own footprint, only a controlled demolition could cause that.

Had they come down asymmetrically, and a bit at a time, I would have bought the whole story. I know it is soothing and tempting to want to believe that this wasn't an inside job, but the act of a few meanies who hate us, but the collapse as it occurred defies the laws of physics.

It's just like the JFK assassination thing, in which we are asked to believe that one "magic bullet" could twist and turn and cause damage to not one, but two human beings, and come out completely pristine as if it were never fired from a rifle. We are asked to forget everything we know about the natural world and how materials behave, in order to fit the government's official story.

It's cool with me if you are no longer a "truther". Why believe what makes sense, when you can swallow the official lie and be in sync with others in your life who also feel secure with the same lie?

Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican
1588 people in that field is a small portion? what are totals of those working in the field.

There are 105,312 registered architects in the US per NCARB, I can't find the number of structural engineers but it's likely around the same number. So 1588 people is around 0.5% of the profession. Sounds like a small minority to me.

Have you reviews the A&E for 9/11 truth evidance?

Yes, I've also been in continuing education seminars where it's been discussed. We have to take 8 hours of continuing education a year to maintain our licenses. Structural failures are something many of us study because it's important to understand what can bring a building down no matter how strange or unusual the cirumstances.

All one has to do is look at building 7. There is NO POSSIBILITY that was anything but a controlled demolition.

It takes WEEKS to place explosives for a controlled demolition.

LOGIC then dictates that the entire event was planned well in advance.

The most logical scenario I can come up with is that the Mossad/CIA one or both, found out about the hijacking plan and layered their own operation on top of it.

Some day the truth will come out... but it will not be easy. Too many people will protect Israel no matter what they do.

angled cuts, thermite, and building 7.......what about them, just asking not trying to be a dick

Originally posted by FissionSurplus
Sorry, but as other posters have pointed out, the perfect symmetry of both collapses told me this wasn't due to a jet hitting it and causing a big fire which melted the steel. An asymmetrical hit on the building meant an uneven distribution of damage and fire. If the buildings had fallen off to one side, like when a tree is cut, I would be more likely to believe the total collapses were due to it being hit by planes, but when something falls at free-fall speed into its own footprint, only a controlled demolition could cause that

This is my last comment in this thread because there's no end to the back-and-forth that can result, but the answer to this has to do with the particular structural design of WTC 1 and 2. These buildings were not your typical field of columns that most of you are used to seeing in office buildings. Columns are undesirable from a leasing perspective, and so these buildings utilized a core of larger columns with the floor structure cantilevering out from there. This eliminated the "field" columns which gives you more flexible lease space. So all the columns were centrally located. How the planes hit the buildings is completely immaterial because clearly the buildings didn't collapse when they were hit, they withstood the initial impacts and therefore this is not what caused the collapse. What did cause it was the ensuing fire. The fire burned until the steel fireproofing was destroyed, once the fireproofing was burned through there was nothing to protect the steel. If this had happened on one of the top floors of the buildings they never would have collapsed. But because it was further down, there was a tremendous amount of weight above and that exacerbated the deformation of the steel leading to failure and collapse. Since all the supporting columns were in the building core, it would naturally collapse straight down, not to one side. Once the collapse starts, the forces imposed on the remaining floors is staggering and they in turn collapse like a house of cards. For those familiar with the Kansas City walkway collapse, it's a similar concept where once one level collapses it comes down with such incredible force that the one below goes like it was made of foam.

reply to post by Gando702


you were intelligent, but not any more. lol?

Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican
reply to post by SavedOne

 

1588 people in that field is a small portion? what are totals of those working in the field.

Note that not all of the 1588 people are working in the field. Some simply did a degree and went on to do something else. Some are retired. Many of those working in the field are not working in a relevant sub-field. In any case, there are 1.6 million engineers, over 141,000 architects, and 26,700 landscape architects (AE911 includes them, so we must, too) working in the United States. This does not include retired and unemployed architects or engineers (AE911 Truth does), non-architects and non-engineers with a related degree (AE911 Truth does), non-US architects and engineers (AE 911 Truth does), or non-US persons with a related degree (AE911 Truth does).

If we were to assume that the BLS figures above represented the entirety of the architectural and engineering professions, as defined by AE 911 Truth, then AE911 Truth would have about 0.09% of the professions behind them. But we know this assumption is wrong; in fact, it is wildly in AE 911's favor. The truth is, AE 911 has far, far less than 0.09% of the professions supporting them. I don't know about you, but I consider

Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican
1588 people in that field is a small portion? what are totals of those working in the field.

There are 105,312 registered architects in the US per NCARB, I can't find the number of structural engineers but it's likely around the same number. So 1588 people is around 0.5% of the profession. Sounds like a small minority to me.

Of course you should add all of the people with physics degrees to that. Structural engineering is nothing but applied Newtonian physics with a little welding. LOL

But why they all can't talk about the distribution of steel down a skyscraper is really peculiar. And then they don't believe in experimentation anymore. I think engineers call it modeling. But what do engineers know?

www.youtube.com...

After TEN YEARS why can't they build a physical model that can completely collapse if that is what happened to the towers?

Is that too difficult and expensive for schools that charge $100,000+ for four years of education?

But after TEN YEARS how can they possibly admit that airliners could not do it? If planes could not do it then they should have said so in 2002. So they have a problem now.

psik

Amazing how so many people become experts over night.

Originally posted by expat2368
All one has to do is look at building 7. There is NO POSSIBILITY that was anything but a controlled demolition.

It takes WEEKS to place explosives for a controlled demolition.

LOGIC then dictates that the entire event was planned well in advance.

The most logical scenario I can come up with is that the Mossad/CIA one or both, found out about the hijacking plan and layered their own operation on top of it.

The Mossad/CIA found out Al Qaeda was going to fly airplanes into the Twin Towers, the Pentagon, and the Capitol/White House ... so they took advantage of this opportunity to blow up WTC 7?

Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican
1588 people in that field is a small portion? what are totals of those working in the field.

There are 105,312 registered architects in the US per NCARB, I can't find the number of structural engineers but it's likely around the same number. So 1588 people is around 0.5% of the profession. Sounds like a small minority to me.

You are being very generous. Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth does not limit itself to structural engineers. They have very few structural engineers. By a quick perusal, I'd say most of their engineers are electrical engineers and chemical engineers. They also have a lot of computer engineers, at least one biomedical engineer, a paper engineer, and a sanitation engineer. And then you have to factor in all the non-registered/licensed architects and engineers they include in their 1,588. I think 0.5% must be an order of magnitude greater than their actual share of the A&E population.

reply to post by FurvusRexCaeli


Ok so you two have shown me that it is a small percentage. The evidence presented still in the OS is not accurate and A&E for truth does a good job at showing and explaining how the OS is incorrect. To me it does not really matter what actually occurred to the buildings because there is enough issues prior to the event to bring the government under scrutiny.

reply to post by SavedOne


Yeah because we all know that steel burns and weakens to the point of exploding itself into nothingness, and of course somehow those weakened floors did not bend off and fall away, but somehow stayed so dam strongly attached to the inner columns that the entire building was cut perfectly straight all the way across, with amazing symmetry all around.

Adding to that we can see the roofs of the buildings collapsing in the MIDDLE, where the cores are, so the cores were falling even before the floors !! Amazing stuff !!

Of course also the buildings emitted an amazing NEW fireball at that moment, and blasted all of the steel and concrete into nothingness,, ejected at least half of itself to the sides leaving FAR less weight to "Pulverize" the rest of the building,,, and then we can see NO FIRE AT ALL....

But somehow the fires got UNDER AND THROUGH all that mass of debris,, kind of crawled its way into the BASEMENTS where it burned like a Foundry for the next 5 months.....

Originally posted by Calex1987
but yet there are tons of engineers who will look at you and go the fire wasnt hot enough to explain the molten steel pouring out of the side of the building jet fuel alone and office supplies do NOT burn hot enough to do what your saying its been proven....and they are the first steel structure's to actually "collapse" because of fire...please if your so inclined tell me why a building that burned for 18hours straight stayed standing...it must of went threw way more hell Considering it burnt for 18hours over what 54 mins? you say your wife is an architect.....well then even she could tell you she didnt know for a fact it would come down...or the fact she really thought it would since a fire has NEVER taken a steel structure down..... i would love to argue every point of your new found belief but it would be pointless...

edit on 20-9-2011 by Calex1987 because: (no reason given)

You mean to say a steel structure first hit by a jet.

That argument that it has never happened before is 100% absolutely correct. Except, the truthers have to leave out that small little fact that the core of the buildings took a massive blow, which weakened the structure.

In addition, one could also argue that no two buildings are exactly alike, no matter how they are designed. Can you say, for 100% certainty, that neither of the towers had a single piece of steel that was fabricated sub-par?

No, you can't.

I could continue with other examples of misconceptions, but I have to go to dinner...LOL

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore
reply to post by SavedOne

 

Yeah because we all know that steel burns and weakens to the point of exploding itself into nothingness, and of course somehow those weakened floors did not bend off and fall away, but somehow stayed so dam strongly attached to the inner columns that the entire building was cut perfectly straight all the way across, with amazing symmetry all around.

Adding to that we can see the roofs of the buildings collapsing in the MIDDLE, where the cores are, so the cores were falling even before the floors !! Amazing stuff !!

Of course also the buildings emitted an amazing NEW fireball at that moment, and blasted all of the steel and concrete into nothingness,, ejected at least half of itself to the sides leaving FAR less weight to "Pulverize" the rest of the building,,, and then we can see NO FIRE AT ALL....

But somehow the fires got UNDER AND THROUGH all that mass of debris,, kind of crawled its way into the BASEMENTS where it burned like a Foundry for the next 5 months.....

There was no NEW AMAZING fireball, friend. The fire from the inside was pushed outward, along with tons of small particles of concrete. Ever hear of a dust fire? Ever throw toner into a fire and see what happens?

My oh my, how simple the explanation is, yet you try to make it some big magical conspiracy.

Oh wait, this is a conspiracy forum though...LOL

Originally posted by ParanoidAmerican
reply to post by FurvusRexCaeli

 

Ok so you two have shown me that it is a small percentage. The evidence presented still in the OS is not accurate and A&E for truth does a good job at showing and explaining how the OS is incorrect.

I watched some of their propaganda on YouTube. I saw a lot of tricky editing and some internal contradictions. I never saw anything that convinced me that any major portion--or any minor portion, really--of the OS is incorrect. Which AE 911 claims do you find compelling?

Want to mess up debunkers lives and the make the perps sweat? Investigate everything about 9/11, 1 second before the first plane hit.

Who funded it? Did the 'terrorists' use the wargames as cover for the attack? How did they know about the war games? Did fema have any foreknowledge or just plain luck they were set up on pier 92 on Sept 10th 2001 anticipating a terrorist attack (exercise)? What did Ptech have to do with the FAA software? Did they electronically hijack the aircraft? Who trained the hijackers? Were Israeli agents living next door to the terrorists in the U.S for years? Did Israel play any part in the execution of the attack? Were american intelligence fooled? Electronically hijacked?


Start with these and forget thermite, cutting charges, pullit and whatever black hole conspiracy is promoted.

reply to post by phantomjack


LOL pushed out by what, the cores that were falling first ?? The outer walls still have not moved at that point.

I guess all that concrete powder was like "Ink Toner" Yeah that must have totally fanned the flames... so much so it fanned invisible flames underneath as well.

reply to post by Gando702


You say you were a 9/11 truther, but you decide to focus on ONE aspect of 9/11.

Don't you know that truth is a puzzle? Even if you uncover one part of it, discovering ONE truth does not make the WHOLE thing true.

So, because your opinion and research proves to you that ONE event went the way the official story says it did, you give up on your quest for the truth?

reply to post by FurvusRexCaeli


As I said in another post what made them collapse is of little issue to me the events before hand are enough to put doubt on it. As for the A&E stuff the thermite and iron orbs are compelling, the fire temp information is good too, the molten steel running out the side of the building as well.