Interesting - but problematic statistics: Autism and Atheism

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by BrianDamage
Atheism also seems to be more prevalent in the more educated countries.
Is Autism more prevalent in more educated countries?

I think its just that more educated countries expect certain restricted behaviors.

I think it's more the case that educated/developed countires have the means/ doctors/hospitals/money/ by which to identify the figures in the community.

Originally posted by Mountainmeg

I feel that Christianity is part of the history integral to the United States. I don't want to be forced to be christian, but trying to purge every mention of it from the land is just as short sighted because it hinders an understanding of our history.

If you research the Puritans who came to America for religious freedom - - you'll find they were practically thrown out of their own country for being ridiculously radical.

As my Australian friend says: "I'd rather be descendent from outlaws then puritans".

Me too.

No one is trying to purge Christianity. They are defending the constitution of no religion in government.

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by BrianDamage
Atheism also seems to be more prevalent in the more educated countries.
Is Autism more prevalent in more educated countries?

I think its just that more educated countries expect certain restricted behaviors.

I think it's more the case that educated/developed countires have the means/ doctors/hospitals/money/ by which to identify the figures in the community.

I don't understand that at all.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Mountainmeg
Probably for the same reason those who are die-hard atheists and those of other religion try to force all mention of Christianity out of schools, courtrooms, concerts and the like.

Atheists do not try to force Christianity out of all schools - etc.

They - rightly - stand that religion does not belong in government. Such as public/government schools - - government courtrooms - etc.

Concerts? Which concerts are you referring too? Perhaps the Christian Sponsored Army one in Virginia?

Yeah - - that would be government. So wrong.

edit on 20-9-2011 by Annee because: (no reason given)

Uh, more like the band concert given at my kiddos school. One of the musical pieces was dropped because it had a religious sounding name and, therefore, may be found offensive. No matter that it was a non-verbal musical piece, not well known so not immediately recognizable as "Hey! That's a possible religious piece!".

Originally posted by Mountainmeg
Uh, more like the band concert given at my kiddos school. One of the musical pieces was dropped because it had a religious sounding name and, therefore, may be found offensive. No matter that it was a non-verbal musical piece, not well known so not immediately recognizable as "Hey! That's a possible religious piece!".

Public school? No religion.

Hey - I come from the years Christianity was mandatory in public schools.

You get no sympathy from me.

Its wrong.

reply to post by steveknows



Thanks steveknows
At first I was unsure about it till I looked it up on Wikipedia and found

Today, in psychology, narcissistic personality disorder is a mental illness characterized by a lack of empathy, a willingness to exploit others, and an inflated sense of self-importance.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Mountainmeg
Uh, more like the band concert given at my kiddos school. One of the musical pieces was dropped because it had a religious sounding name and, therefore, may be found offensive. No matter that it was a non-verbal musical piece, not well known so not immediately recognizable as "Hey! That's a possible religious piece!".

Public school? No religion.
Hey - I come from the years Christianity was mandatory in public schools.
You get no sympathy from me.
Its wrong.

Is it mean to say "Cool - you're proving my point"?

No sympathy needed. I'm agnostic. I find it pathetic, however, that a beautifully composed, complex piece of music would be dropped because the latin name may, somehow, be perceived as christian and therefore may offer offense to someone.

Which goes back to my original argument that many that adhere to Atheism are religious - hence the same zeal to stomp out anything that may be perceived as religious that Evangelicals show in stomping out Halloween parades since they perceive them as demon worship or some such fodder.

My reason for wanting the study of christianity to stay in history class alongside judaism, islam, and the other religions of the world? It's hard to understand people without understanding the underlying belief system. As George Santaya said "“Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it”.

My son, as a child with autism, will be left with a huge hole in understanding people & motives if he does not understand the belief system that the majority of those around him profess to. Learning the outline helped me understand people better - though I did get kicked out of bible study repeatedly for pointing out the logical flaws in their arguments.

Originally posted by Mountainmeg
No sympathy needed. I'm agnostic. I find it pathetic, however, that a beautifully composed, complex piece of music would be dropped because the latin name may, somehow, be perceived as christian and therefore may offer offense to someone.

I agree that sometimes people are overzealous.

Which goes back to my original argument that many that adhere to Atheism are religious - hence the same zeal to stomp out anything that may be perceived as religious that Evangelicals show in stomping out Halloween parades since they perceive them as demon worship or some such fodder.

Keeping God out of government is not religious.

My son, as a child with autism, will be left with a huge hole in understanding people & motives if he does not understand the belief system that the majority of those around him profess to. Learning the outline helped me understand people better - though I did get kicked out of bible study repeatedly for pointing out the logical flaws in their arguments.

I probably have some form of Autism myself -- high functioning - but still on the spectrum. Of course - - it wasn't something diagnosed during my years.

My grandson is borderline.

Interesting that Autistics seem to be people studiers - - - but not people persons.

Perhaps Autism is a form of evolution. A new generation of logical critical thinkers.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by BrianDamage
Atheism also seems to be more prevalent in the more educated countries.
Is Autism more prevalent in more educated countries?

I think its just that more educated countries expect certain restricted behaviors.

I think it's more the case that educated/developed countires have the means/ doctors/hospitals/money/ by which to identify the figures in the community.

I don't understand that at all.

The less developed countries don't have the resources to keep true figures as to the amount of people suffering a particular illness in the community. Alot of people would go undiognosed because they lack the usual minimum health standard maintained by the wealthier countries. So in answer to the question that was asked being "Is Autism more prevalent in more educated countries?" Would be that if it is it would be because our countries are more able to diognose it and not because less people believe in God compared to the less fortunate countries.

Originally posted by racasan
reply to post by steveknows

 

Thanks steveknows
At first I was unsure about it till I looked it up on Wikipedia and found

Today, in psychology, narcissistic personality disorder is a mental illness characterized by a lack of empathy, a willingness to exploit others, and an inflated sense of self-importance.

No worries. You see it alot on this site.

I'll take the bonus question for 3.000 ATS points

The urge toward religion was not invented by man it is embedded in all sentient life,it's part of how we (earthlings) are hardwired,It is linked to and is extensions of things like .love wonder gratitude etc

animals worship, I"ve seen them do it , they worship the sun

ask me how I know this

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
I'll take the bonus question for 3.000 ATS points

The urge toward religion was not invented by man it is embedded in all sentient life,it's part of how we (earthlings) are hardwired,It is linked to and is extensions of things like .love wonder gratitude etc

animals worship, I"ve seen them do it , they worship the sun

ask me how I know this

Well I'd say it's the development of the frontal lobes which gave rise to abstract thought for us mere humans. That's also why we can investigate the world around us and identify what really happened such as evolution.

But ok I'll ask you. Was it observation?

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
I'll take the bonus question for 3.000 ATS points

The urge toward religion was not invented by man it is embedded in all sentient life,it's part of how we (earthlings) are hardwired,It is linked to and is extensions of things like .love wonder gratitude etc

animals worship, I"ve seen them do it , they worship the sun

ask me how I know this

Well I'd say it's the development of the frontal lobes which gave rise to abstract thought for us mere humans. That's also why we can investigate the world around us and identify what really happened such as evolution.

But ok I'll ask you. Was it observation?

yes it was observation , I saw horses engaged in elaborate(for horses) ceremonial sun worship, they did it once a month (approximately) there was ceremonial leader/pastor/priest they did it in the morning

cats worship the setting sun, individually

Originally posted by steveknows
The less developed countries don't have the resources to keep true figures as to the amount of people suffering a particular illness in the community. Alot of people would go undiognosed because they lack the usual minimum health standard maintained by the wealthier countries. So in answer to the question that was asked being "Is Autism more prevalent in more educated countries?" Would be that if it is it would be because our countries are more able to diognose it and not because less people believe in God compared to the less fortunate countries.

We are an over diagnosed country. The umbrella for ADHD and Autism encompasses any child that doesn't fit a set of rules.

Today NOT to fit into this category a child must talk in complex sentences by age 2 1/2 - - have direct eye focus when spoken to - - keep direct eye contact when being read to or given a lesson - - sit for extended periods of time etc.

If a child doesn't speak in complex sentences by age 3 - - they are suspect. I did not talk in sentences until I was 3 1/2 - - - they blurted out at the dinner table "I want that piece of toast". It wasn't that I couldn't talk - - I simply chose not to.

Children in developed countries are being "boxed" and programed to compete in an intense high level competitive world.

Children in under developed countries are loved for being children.

Of course there are the more extreme cases of non-functioning or limited functioning Autism. Those statistics would be interesting to me.

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
yes it was observation , I saw horses engaged in elaborate(for horses) ceremonial sun worship, they did it once a month (approximately) there was ceremonial leader/pastor/priest they did it in the morning

cats worship the setting sun, individually

You do realize you are interpreting human behavior and applying it to animals.

I don't think its unusual for animals to develop response behaviors to natural occurrences.

But "worship"? NO. You have no real knowledge of what is in their thoughts when they respond to a sunset or anything else.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Even though I personally believe everything has an energy consciousness - - - I'm not going to make claim that I KNOW animals worship god.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by steveknows
The less developed countries don't have the resources to keep true figures as to the amount of people suffering a particular illness in the community. Alot of people would go undiognosed because they lack the usual minimum health standard maintained by the wealthier countries. So in answer to the question that was asked being "Is Autism more prevalent in more educated countries?" Would be that if it is it would be because our countries are more able to diognose it and not because less people believe in God compared to the less fortunate countries.

We are an over diagnosed country. The umbrella for ADHD and Autism encompasses any child that doesn't fit a set of rules.

Today NOT to fit into this category a child must talk in complex sentences by age 2 1/2 - - have direct eye focus when spoken to - - keep direct eye contact when being read to or given a lesson - - sit for extended periods of time etc.

If a child doesn't speak in complex sentences by age 3 - - they are suspect. I did not talk in sentences until I was 3 1/2 - - - they blurted out at the dinner table "I want that piece of toast". It wasn't that I couldn't talk - - I simply chose not to.

Children in developed countries are being "boxed" and programed to compete in an intense high level competitive world.

Children in under developed countries are loved for being children.

Of course there are the more extreme cases of non-functioning or limited functioning Autism. Those statistics would be interesting to me.

Hey I don't disagree with you. I believe kids these days are given meds when something as simple as a diet change is all that's needed. or lots of energy is taken as an illness rather than youth or a kid who doesn't talk much just may not have alot to say rather than there being something wrong etc..

I was just responding to that guys post because I could see where he was going to go with it it as in there's more Autism in the developed countires because there's less God.

Originally posted by MrsBlonde

Originally posted by steveknows

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
I'll take the bonus question for 3.000 ATS points

The urge toward religion was not invented by man it is embedded in all sentient life,it's part of how we (earthlings) are hardwired,It is linked to and is extensions of things like .love wonder gratitude etc

animals worship, I"ve seen them do it , they worship the sun

ask me how I know this

Well I'd say it's the development of the frontal lobes which gave rise to abstract thought for us mere humans. That's also why we can investigate the world around us and identify what really happened such as evolution.

But ok I'll ask you. Was it observation?

yes it was observation , I saw horses engaged in elaborate(for horses) ceremonial sun worship, they did it once a month (approximately) there was ceremonial leader/pastor/priest they did it in the morning

cats worship the setting sun, individually

I believe animals are smarter than people might think and I don't doubt they show an interest in thier environment.

But worship? Absolute abstract thought? There is a big difference between peeling bark off a branch to stick it in a termite mound and painting a sunset on a cave wall or canvas or having enough awareness to actually worship.

A big mistake people make, and sometimes to our own detriment, is when we apply human behaviour to animals. Like saying that your dog thinks it's a human because it acts like one. No your dog acts like a dog and thinks you're part of a pack. That's why sometimes little children are bitten by the family pet because the family sees it as part of the family and the child is bitten when acting like a human child it commits some k9 taboo that the family doesn't understand.

I say worship ,because if I take humans saying they worship and just observe what they do it's the the same. the horses took time out of their day to stand together all facing the sun no one grazing and no one moving ,motionless for and hour or so .I 've seen many animals do this .but none with obvious ceremonial context of the horses

and yes I'm going to call it worship lots of sentient creatures have all the emotions and intelligence to carry this out, elephants are known to hold funerals for their dead, it's all part of the same continuum

Originally posted by MrsBlonde
elephants are known to hold funerals for their dead, it's all part of the same continuum

Again attaching human behavior/rituals to animals.

I realize elephants have an extremely complex society and emotions similar to humans. But I do not consider elephants mourning a loss in the same context as humans having a funeral.