Conservatives: How do you propose we colonize space?

Simple question that I have been asking roundabout for awhile.

Going to space, setting up stations, the concept of terraform mars or elsewhere, etc...all of these ideas are absolutely great, and absolutely unprofitable. At best, you could hope for Virgin Atlantic or some such corporation to eventually make a small space hotel in low earth orbit to allow the most rich to spend a week up there, however...what about the big stuff?

In your idealistic world that you strive to create...how do we get to space? Do you think huge social space programs is an exception to your no/little government? Do you even consider future humanity endevors? Do you think this is simply an area that China should own or something (we can have the west, give the socialists the rest of the universe)?

What is the actual plan that would possibly work that fits your ideological worldview..,how do we colonize space in your vision?

Super-smart self-sustaining titanium/gold probes, able to traverse the galaxy for millions of years on their own power.

(Humans not needed)

Originally posted by Signals
Super-smart self-sustaining titanium/gold probes, able to traverse the galaxy for millions of years on their own power.

(Humans not needed)

Not seeing how that allows me to visit the sea of tranquility shopping center and amusement park in the year 2117 (got it marked on the calender)

reply to post by SaturnFX


You have a calendar that goes past 12/2012 ?



Seriously, Humans aren't needed, the machines won't need us at that point, they will just search for planets with resources they can take...

Originally posted by Signals
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

You have a calendar that goes past 12/2012 ?

Seriously, Humans aren't needed, the machines won't need us at that point, they will just search for planets with resources they can take...

For simple things like mining, I am all for the unmanned probes and stuff, I am talking about, if say a mega solar flare or super asteroid hit our basket with all our eggs in it, we are done...if we are spread out amongst the solar system, and perhaps even neighboring stars, then its not a big deal for the species..

And for us to start down the path of ensuring the survival of our species, we gotta get out into space...not bots, but people...colonists, builders, etc...and initially at least it will be a money pit...trillions upon trillions of dollars being ejected into space (literally), and not a single corporation, or even league of corporations would do that for no real reason...

So, are we here until we are dead, or do we have ambitions as a species to shoot higher is the overall question...and how do we do this when soo many are demanding we should have no capable big institutions (that doesn't have a corporate logo beside its name anyhow)

It all depends on where you believe our real Space Program really is, technologically speaking.

If you believe NASA, yeah, we are screwed for many years to come, in regards to this thread...

However our government has hidden TRILLIONS of dollars from us, for who knows what? (see Rumsfeld speech - 9/10/01...day before 9/11) Secret space program?

Maybe.

Good question...

I think a follow up would be.

If humans are contained to space vessels,

how can socialism be avoided?

can one member of the ship obtain ownership of 95% of the ships resources?

if not, does that mean that liberty has died?

Nice philosophical can of worms -

Originally posted by Janky Red
Nice philosophical can of worms -

Its a can of worms that whenever brought up, conservatives immediately flee, because it becomes glaringly obvious...there is no vision, there is no forward thinking, it is an extinct path they want to walk down (or rather, path to extinction).

So yes...there will more than likely be no real response...hense why I bring it up soo often. if you are debating with a conservative, ask them about their idealistic future, and beyond some very general (I lub muh freedomz and the future is freedom in muh world), they basically become confused and walk away.

Go figure...conservatism and science are not on the best of terms here either.

The only way innovation has ever happened--and will ever happen....is free enterprise.

You let the private sector do what it does best---create and innovate without intervention. You let the market determine and set the price.

There is so much red tape and beaurocratic BS when the government gets involved..that nothing gets done.

Do you think MIcrosoft or Apple succeded because the government exists?

No--they did what they did because we live in a free market economy.

When Americans aren't shackled by beaurocracy and red tape----what we do.....is amazing.

I suggest that we send congress and the WH administration out in space. They are so full of manure that some of it has to take hold and fertilize areas so colonization could be established. Consider it a public service.

I think we should leave space alone. We can't even figure our # out down here on earth. What the hell do we need to go to space for? It's gonna be civil wars every 15 minutes, burials at space after moon team 6 assassinations, race wars taking chunks out of the moon, and attempted nukings all the time!!

Originally posted by MRuss
The only way innovation has ever happened--and will ever happen....is free enterprise.

Do you think MIcrosoft or Apple succeded because the government exists?

See, its this mindset that is the overall issue...and note, it is the peoples mindset

Fact is, this is catagorically untrue. Government makes infrustructure so that businesses can invent gizmo's off of it, be it automobiles, webpages, operating systems, etc.

Government puts down roads so companys can drive
Government builds the internet so tech companys can exist
Government does the big projects so little companys, like microsoft, can create their tiny machines and make use of it...but no, microsoft didn't invent the internet, or the computer...or even the operating system...they simply used the existing technology of the time, and the infrustructure that the government created in order to make something new and innovative using the infrustructure

Space colonization is not a innovation, its infrustructure...the government builds infrustructure...they are actually exceptionally great at this...yet now the cons are trying to suggest infrustructure shouldn't be built by anyone except gizmomakers (whom has never built any infrustructure) Luddites p-ss me off.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Private corporations do hundreds of billions worth of infrastructure projects every year. You can't say that it is only Government carrying out large infrastructure projects.

I don't like Conservative vs. Liberal stuff.

I think this is a question suited for everyone, no matter the political ideology behind the people. Space is one issue where politics should not interfere.

I say we send plants first and if those die? I'll leave colonization to you guys.

I consider myself independent, but a limited accountable government is what conservatives want. They dont want a governement that spends more than their gdp, or anywhere close to it. Space exploration is something the government should be funding credible private companies to do. There is a difference between spending money on technology and spending money on a socialist agenda which is what i am guessing you are referring to.

Considering that it was a Liberal...and Uber one at that, that decided to cut out the infrastructure, you're not going to get people to agree with you easily on this one.

And I just watched on Netflix a documentary on the race to the moon. The Russians were too cautious in their approach because they wanted to make sure that no lives were lost, and that everything was triple-checked. Governments have a tendency to want to cover their own butts, and in this case, the Russians didn't allow the private sector as many or as open/interactive contracts as America did at that time. See, sometimes Liberals are far more conservative than their more Conservative counterparts. (Yes, JFK is considered to be to the Right of the Kremlin, at that time.)

And I know that the phrase "good enough for Government work" means in details I wish I didn't--Grandpa was a Surveyor, and a lot of times, what the Government is willing to settle for is not always what I want to trust in space.

I've been wanting to test ice shielding in space. I think that H2O shields against UV fare more effectively than does Ozone, and there's a lot that could be done with it.

What does being a conservative have to do with colonizing space?

How about we get our affairs on this planet squared away before we go spreading our insanity throughout the galaxy.

I just don't see how any political affiliation has anything to do with space exploration.

im not a conservative, but id like to answer the question.

i think if we removed ourselves from currency, the idea that things need to be profitable to happen, and switched to a resource based economy we should theoretically be able to do such things.

but since we live in a world of hate and greed, mankind is probably damned to spend its time on this planet till extinction.

also the discovery and use of alternative fuel sources such as helium 3 and so on would do wonders to help with this. but its all unlikely since a bunch of greedy slobs run the world.

I think that private investment in space is where future success will be. You don't have to be a gazillionaire to participate either, buying shares even on a small scale will help r & d projects majorly if enough people do it. Govts can succeed, but too often they pursue projects for political reasons, and grant companies contracts based on reasons other than their ability to complete them with the end result being an inferior product that is nearly outdated by the time it is built.
I expect the future to be a combination of the two. Govt focused on security based projects, strategic bases and the evacuation pods of the so called elite, and private companies focused on exploration, superior power systems, leisure and raw material sourcing. I think even at this moment, if a private company wanted to fund a long voyage space mission even with no guarantees of safety or clear purpose, they could get funding from passengers willing to do it as long as they could go. There are a few start ups that already exist, here's an interesting article about them:
www.thespacereview.com...
This does have a distasteful tinge of the corporatization of space, but I think the govt will always play a role as well, and its better for us if both participate, it will lessen the spread of tyranny to space.

reply to post by Signals

reply to post by SaturnFX


LOL both of you seriously need to read Frank Herbert's Dune Chronicles


reply to post by Janky Red

and you need to read Heinlein, he pretty much wrote the book[s] on space life.
TANSTAAFL! [there aint no such thing as a free lunch]
it will mostly be anarchy under a rational/pro-survival "authority"
the rule of the cold equations, the air isn't free in space.

of course this is all after the defeat of the
governments and the corporations attempts to make space "business as usual"

reply to post by SaturnFX

excuse me? conservatives by their very nature tend to inertia, may as well try to piss up a rope.