The Confederate Flag: A Disturbing Trend?

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by TravisT

 

But I think it is used equally today by both racists and people that keep it out of respect and heritage. It's just those people don't attract as much attention.

Of course it's used by racists, it would be silly to deny that fact.

As for "respect to the heritage": This makes no sense. Like I said, the flag only represented four years out of 200+ of the southern heritage. Plus, it's a flag based on a war that was lost. If my baseball team goes to the World Series, and then end up loosing, I don't jump up and down with excitement going, "yay, my team lost the 2011 Series. Shouldn't we be so proud of them for loosing?". When 2012 comes around, I wouldn't be wearing my teams 2011 World Series Champion shirts if they lost. Why would anybody? That wouldn't be respectful of my team, in fact, it would feel more like a slap in the face to the team. I could talk about it, and say how close we were to winning, but if you want to be respectful of it, you count your losses, and hope next year will be better. You don't celebrate a loss, that's just silly. But, when it comes to the confederate flag, you can see ulterior motives, or just plan ignorance.

Off topic: Great avatar, I'm a big Neutral Milk fan, I posted it in a thread of people talking about music and they hated it (mostly tool fans that were talking about the brilliance of tools music.. you will have that here).

Ha, well, I like all types of music, and while I do love NMH(come back Jeff Magnum), I also love Tool.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
You do not get to choose my preferences in life, nor do I get to choose yours. That's called 'freedom', and is the very thing I think of when I see the Confederate Flag.

Come to think of it, I'm coming to better realize why you dislike it... thank you for that.

TheRedneck

Ha, the 'ol "you don't like this part of Umerica, so you must hate freedom" trick, eh? I already said you could hang it high all you want, but just know how racist you come off. I understand you feel safe and secure in your Alabama town while displaying your flag, but would you display it so high and proud, say, in the Bronx? Would you feel safe and secure, proud and happy, over your flag in unfamiliar territory? Or would you just be selective of your pride? Trust me, you have the freedom to drape it all you want up here.

Originally posted by MidnightTide

Originally posted by felonius

Originally posted by cklein61
And today some people fly the confederate flag because they are racist, and proud of it. The flag has always left a bad tast in my mouth.

Hey bud,


Heads up.

Dont eat flags.

Got to say, even though that cklien61 is just a troll account, I will admit that your post made me LOL. Thanks.

Yeah, it was a good joke. It made me laugh, too.

reply to post by felonius


Honestly, I have no idea what you're even talking about.
Never once did I say people should not fly the flag.
The purpose of this OP was to see if people up North noticed an increasing trend in confederate flags. Believe me, you and your southern boys can have it. I think that's the only place it belongs.

there are some stars above your post.

satanist's use stars.

that must make you a satanist.

Originally posted by RelentlessLurker
there are some stars above your post.

satanist's use stars.

that must make you a satanist.

That's, ummmmm.....that's not even close to being analogous to satanists.

reply to post by sixswornsermon


states right to own slaves!

reply to post by xEphon

Actually, you may be on to something there.

I know from direct experience that, regardless of what used to be, racism today is much more rampant in the northern states than in the southern ones. Perhaps we just got it out of our system first, or maybe it has to do with the fact that there seems to be a higher percentage of blacks in the south than in the north; but whatever the reason, my statement is still true.

Down here, we fly that flag for what it was intended to represent originally: a proud people who will not bow to tyrannical government. What those in the north fly their flags for, I have really no idea. I would like to think that it is because they too harbor that fierce independent spirit, but just as others cannot say what is in my mind (especially on this subject), neither can I say what is in theirs.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by tankerpilot
Nonsense.

Do a little research willya? The Civil War was NOT about race. It was about states rights. It wasnt until after the emancipation proclaimation that the war became about race and slavery. The confederate flag respresented a group of states that stood up to the federal government. IT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE. Get over yourself. By playing the race card in every aspect of life you prove only one thing....that you are a rascist!!!!

I agree with you 100% I am a proud southerner, N.C. to be exact. The Rebel flag as it's called is also our heritage, our history. Do we re-write history to do away with the flag? No. Educate yourself as to why the cival war was fought in the first place. Slavery was but a small part of the overall problem. States rights and the fact the South was becoming a economic powerhouse created the war.
Again, the cival war is hi-jacked in the name of racism. It's a flag, get over it allready. I would suppose the reason all the yankee's are upset is because you all won said war. How do you like us now.

reply to post by TravisT


Well.. it's not about how long or anything. It's about getting there and the fact that people died fighting for their rights (and of course we aren't talking about being able to own slaves though that's all the history books will have it be about. Slavery would be ending soon due to technology regardless.)

I understand both points of view. I just wish people would be properly educated on the civil war in schools so it wouldn't be used as a symbol by racists.

(i was a tool fan, I saw them live once. I just don't think that they are the super brilliant group they are touted as here a lot of the time.)

reply to post by TravisT


i used his own rediculous logic to make a rediculous statement.

reply to post by TravisT

I understand you feel safe and secure in your Alabama town while displaying your flag, but would you display it so high and proud, say, in the Bronx? Would you feel safe and secure, proud and happy, over your flag in unfamiliar territory? Or would you just be selective of your pride?

I realize ATS supports longer posts and frowns upon short ones, and I even understand that as a staff member I am to set a 'good example'... but questions like this only require a one-word answer:


Yes!


TheRedneck

It would be complete ignorance to think that the Confederate Flag is solely about race...

WikiPedia - Confederate Flag

People also forget where the Nazi's derived the swastika ...

Wikipedia - Swastika

----------------

These people have grabbed an image and changed it to fit their liking... Just as some people have used the American flag around the world to define imeprialism and bully activities...

Just Sayin...

Originally posted by RelentlessLurker
reply to post by TravisT

 

i used his own rediculous logic to make a rediculous statement.

Ha, I guess I missed that. My bad.......

reply to post by xEphon


This is the problem with the world in general. Everyone thinks the world should be conformed to their standard of living. Well this isn't your personal world my friend or is it mine.

That's the beauty of individual choice.

As far as racism is concerned though.... you must be ignorant or neive because White American's are the world most hated secies, period. We're hated by every race in every country. Funny how racism doesn't apply in reverse.

reply to post by TheRedneck


LOL! A good friend of mine is a white guy in an all black fraternity and he proudly wears his Confederate Flag right along side his "hooks" and "brands."

I am much, much more likely to use the n-word in that crowd than I ever would in a crowd of white folks. In that crowd, the word is descriptive in a couple of ways. It differentiates between an intelligent and hard-working black guy, and one with pants sagging and 10 illegitimate children and a couple of "cases" on him.

I think in the US, the most racist place in the country is in a room full of white folks placating the plight of the black folks and looking for any slight innuendo of racism in their peers. I feel far more comfortable discussing this stuff around black folks than I do white folks.

Yes, my Confederate Flag flies on my biker vest and pick-up truck no matter where I am, and anyone that I know that wears one feels the same way.

See this thread for my last event (9/11) with a description of all the different cultural groups riding along in unity, and proudly flying their individuality with no problems.

reply to post by getreadyalready

And that, my friend is the key. All people expressing their individuality without worrying about the next guy's.

The way I see it, wherever I go, I am still the same old ornery redneck; I can't change that. So why would I ever hide who I am? Better to put it out there and quickly discover I am not welcome than to slither around and try to hide who I am until I am found out to be that person, and a liar to boot.

I remember being told about one night when I was young, getting sloppy drunk. Apparently, I wound up in an all-black neighborhood, going door to door asking if they knew where I could buy a Confederate Flag. From what I am told, everyone in the neighborhood had a great time laughing at the crazy redneck.

Back in my early youth, there was a neighborhood close to me where no one went who was white, especially after dark. I did. I wasn't afraid to stroll my happy white redneck rear end up and down the streets in that area, because I knew most of the people who lived there and they knew me. They knew I didn't care what color they were, how much money they had, or who they knew; treat me with respect and I'm a good friend, but attack me and watch me go postal. I was safe, even decked out in a Stars and Bars t-shirt, because of who I was inside, nothing to do with the color of my skin or the symbol on my chest.

Yes, I will be myself no matter where I am. If that makes me unwanted, I will go someplace else. But this place is my home and there is nowhere else to go. That means I only have one option left to me: be myself regardless of what others think.

That, my friends, is equality. That is what Dr. King dreamed of. That is what Lennon sang about. That is the goal.

This idea of squashing symbols or outlawing words or demeaning others because of who they are is called 'racism', and is supposed to be what we are fighting against.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by hanyak69
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

That is like me saying you are retarded for having a frog in your signature.When a person cannot support their position they resort to name calling which in and of itself is rearded.

...if frogs are used as a symbol of being a moron, then sure, that works.
If I have a swastica symbol as an avatar, chances are, its not because I am a big fan of ancient Indian culture...use a bit of sense.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by xEphon

Actually, you may be on to something there.

I know from direct experience that, regardless of what used to be, racism today is much more rampant in the northern states than in the southern ones. Perhaps we just got it out of our system first, or maybe it has to do with the fact that there seems to be a higher percentage of blacks in the south than in the north; but whatever the reason, my statement is still true.

Down here, we fly that flag for what it was intended to represent originally: a proud people who will not bow to tyrannical government. What those in the north fly their flags for, I have really no idea. I would like to think that it is because they too harbor that fierce independent spirit, but just as others cannot say what is in my mind (especially on this subject), neither can I say what is in theirs.

TheRedneck

I'm sorry, after reading this, I can't take you seriously anymore. Your perception on what side of the states has more racism is laughable, especially followed by how much you fly your confederate flag around in the south. That right there is proof of how loud and accepted the racism is in the south. I know you said you would display the flag if you came up here, but I can assure you, I wouldn't even dare be waving that flag around here, let alone be proud and boastful about it. Yeah, tell a bunch of people up here to just "get over it", or explain your nonsense of a "tyrannical government", and see how far you get. It wouldn't be pretty......

If you don't want to "bow down to a tyrannical government", and not look like a racist, may I suggest waving an anarchist flag around? Same message, but without the racism.

Originally posted by Openeye
reply to post by reeferman

 

The confederate states of America was an illegal alliance.

Article 1 section 10 of the constitution states.

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility. No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress. No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

Negative.

Article 1, Section 10 of the United States Constitution applies only to the constituent states of the US, not to foreign countries. At the time of the Confederacy, the states party to the Confederation had seceded from the US, and were no longer a part of it. The Confederacy was a foreign nation, not the US. This is why it was called the CSA, to distinguish that nation from the USA.

The Civil War was a War of Conquest in which the USA invaded a foreign country, occupied it, and eventually annexed it.

No union was "preserved", it had already been dissolved. The Union was merely added to by conquest of foreign soil.

I have one in the shape of an eagle tattooed on my shoulder. For me it represents Southern Rock, which I have followed since a teenager. Like it or not, the south had their own flag before the civil war; the flag represents the south not an ideology. People need to get over it and stop reading into things. Really, if I were that overly sensitive I think I'd just throw myself off a bridge.