Question for Evolutionist's

reply to post by john_bmth



its like us evolving to have oppose-able thumbs and larger brains, create a nuclear weapon and blow up the earth, that is extinction via evolution in a simple form.

Another from would be we evolve to eat a single type of animal or plant, then this food source disappears and we have nothing to sustain us and we die out as a result of having nothing to eat

Wee Mad

reply to post by dontlaughthink


Thank you for that reply. Forgive me, what's the other mammal that lays eggs? And I don't know what to make of the Platypus either. It seems to be part mammal, amphibian, reptile(?), and I don't know? Since species generally don't cross pollinate, this one struck me as odd in either of evolutions or religions manuals. Sort of a humorous side bar in the never ending trial of Origin of Species. Not evil, any "natural" life is rare and good.

reply to post by malachi777


Ahh okay, it was just something that struck me. All I can think of as a relative comparison is between a headache and a migraine- I think anyone who has them instantly knows one from the other and I suppose it sounds a similiar situation.

One thought though, this may seem a bit of a leap at first, is about the stories of erotic asphyxiation (such as the politicians with the amyl- nitrate oranges....) and how it apparently significantly enhances and strengthens the feelings of the orgasm. I just wonder if hypoxia in the brain could enhance similiar subjective feelings in a human, such as dreams.

Again, I'm not trying to dismiss what you felt or believe, it's just a thought on it- and also doesn't necessarily make it any less incredible.

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by colin42

 

Why would a species become suddenly become extinct by evolving too much? That makes no sense. What is the specific mechanism that stops a species from evolving too much? FYI I do not doubt evolution, hence why I am asking for creationists to give a scientific explanation for what stops a species evolving into another.

We would be mistaken if we think we can answer that question. I will give you my humble opinion though. I do not believe a species can evolve into another because it is what it is genetically. As a creationist, I believe in evolution but not to the extreme that evolutionists believe. The evolution of a species makes very small changes to stay alive and carry on to make offspring by becoming tolerant to things like foods, heat, cold, bacterium etc... I don't think we will even learn because we as humans will never have the intelligence that the creator has. I believe these small changes are more like conditioning to the elements and changes of the earth. Look at the free divers. They do unbelievable things like deep water dives, holding their breath for very long periods of time and so on. It is breathtaking watching these people do things that would cause a normal Joe to die. Their children on the other hand will not be capable of do this unless they are conditioned to do it as well. And I am absolutely sure, after hundreds of generations that they will not grow gills, fins or learn to breath under water.

reply to post by intrptr


another mammal that lays eggs is the Short-beaked Echidna

Wee Mad

Originally posted by yes4141
reply to post by malachi777

 

Ahh okay, it was just something that struck me. All I can think of as a relative comparison is between a headache and a migraine- I think anyone who has them instantly knows one from the other and I suppose it sounds a similiar situation.

One thought though, this may seem a bit of a leap at first, is about the stories of erotic asphyxiation (such as the politicians with the amyl- nitrate oranges....) and how it apparently significantly enhances and strengthens the feelings of the orgasm. I just wonder if hypoxia in the brain could enhance similiar subjective feelings in a human, such as dreams.

Again, I'm not trying to dismiss what you felt or believe, it's just a thought on it- and also doesn't necessarily make it any less incredible.

LOL...No problem. Well, I have never done the erotic asphyxiation but when I was a teen, my sister, myself and numerous friends used to lean up against a wall and someone else would intentionally cut the blood flow to the head by placing their hands around the neck and squeezing. I am embarrassed to admit it but we did it for fun. That also was very different, euphoric yes, religious or equal to the NDE, far from it. There was no dreaming with the game. Everything would just go dark and you would see stars and flashing and feel a tremendous rush of euphoria. The NDE was real...as real as the computer sitting in front of me, the air-conditioner in the background and the kids playing outside and calling out to each other. It was...I cannot think of that word...material?

reply to post by weemadmental


Very interesting animal, isn't it? Sometimes I wonder if maybe they were mix bred long ago and were able to produce a live cross breed. Kind of like a Liger. I have heard that some creatures can be bred with a different kind and produce live birth, donkey's and horse for example. They are not a completely different species though.

reply to post by malachi777


Ha ha, no I can't say I've tried it either- seems too big a risk for the reward. Especially that being your one and only cause of death....

....anyway. No, I didn't really mean it as a simple "cut off the blood from the brain for a bit" dizziness/ rush like you describe but more as a catalyst for making something far more intense than it may usually have been. Hypoxia also causes delirium and significant motor impairment- though I'd be very impressed if you were anywhere near conscious enough to feel those things after that long out!

But, also, our sense of 'realness' has no real control sample. No sense of relativity. It is all a jumble of what we feel. I've certainly had dreams that I thought were real. There are also the obvious chemicals which make things different to the norm- to know which one is really reality we can't know. What I'm saying is that no matter how truly wonderful and mind blowing this experience was to you (and I'm certainly not doubting that), your own sense of it feeling real is no real sensor. It even sounds like it felt 'hyper- real', almost as if it was the first taste of reality you had really had which makes it sound more dream like. Though I'm really not sure- I'm no neurologist so don't really know about chemical release at brain death/ immediate decomposition and didn't experience it myself so can only speculate loosely from afar.

reply to post by yes4141


You are a deep thinker and I am a deep sleeper, so we will get along just fine. I do accept your opinion and we will never know scientifically if it was a real experience. What is fact, is that it completely changed how I view myself, my belief in a higher power and it cured me of the torment I dealt with all my life. I went from a lost soul, doubting that there is any good in the world and in myself, to someone who cares about others, and has a deep yearning to help those who are in need.

The first life forms to move onto the land had little to no competition. Probably the driving force for the change from sea to land. Note there is no reason for this to mean there will no longer be fish.

Once established this would no longer be the case as the available niches would be full of evolved and adapted craetures. So during the move from sea to land an animal would evolve to a point where it is not fishlike.

So species would pretty much stabilise with change in local conditions or pressure from predators/herd numbers being the force for change.

Now add an extinction level event. The creatures left on the land still have the advantage for a land based life over equatic and again the driving force becomes the exploitation of niches with little competition.

So this gives times of relatively rapid evolution and times of slow evolution. Funny enough borne out by the fossil records which I know some here dismiss as irrevalent but IMO that is only because it destroys the creationists stance.

People on the otherside of the fence in this discussion that rule out the fossil records as irrevalvent shows they have no real intention to get anything from it other than to bolster their belief in the supernatural

Again I point out evolution does not try and cannot explain how life started so it does not exclude a creative force be that chemistry/god/Aliens or whatever explanation you wish to evoke for that event.

If the mechanics of evolution threatens your belief in your faith I suggest you question that before you question evolution because that I believe is where your real problem lays.

Wow. I can't believe I trudged thru this entire thread.
Can't we all just get along?
Ladies & gentlemen, let us take a lesson from Mr. Atheist Ant

"Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest" (Proverbs 6:6-8).

Anyways, I imagine the notion of evolution is quite disturbing for many people: "If my dog doesn't have a soul/spirit/ticket to heaven ...and my butler monkey is in the same boat...and Darwin says humaGOOD GOD!"
Not all theists feel this way though, I know.

Personally, I think all the info regarding evolution is great progress. Necessary. I do also think it leaves a bit to be desired (for me, calm down) but I don't think the info I'm looking for would be found within the constraints of the theory anyways...certainly not within the Bible or religion. (for me.)
Knowledge, truth, understanding. Peace, love, empathy. If these the traits were practiced by the globe, and held in the highest esteem... we wouldn't even be having this discussion. We'd be preoccupied by our own "Heaven" on Earth. We missed the mark, and religion is NOT going to pull us out of this.
The only "evil-ution" I see is that of once innocent humans evolving into the power hungry morally bankrupt, corrupt leaders and controllers of our populace. Control over a populace, hrmm... I wonder what they used back in the day...

reply to post by malachi777


I can't honestly say I have an opinion on it because I know so little about it. I just find it interesting. I'm far from an expert on NDE's so I think I'll have to read up on them to see if this was a normal kind of one. As someone said earlier I find it interesting about the 'human senses' thing (eyes, ears for sight, sound etc.) and as well as everything else it makes you wonder about if there are potentially different creatures around space which use entirely different sensory awareness methods/ types. Though I suppose bats are weird enough!

Deep thinker? Thank you, but I expect I'm barely paddling in the shallow end.

P.S. It's amazing how much nicer/ better this thread is since the OP stopped posting...

reply to post by yes4141

P.S. It's amazing how much nicer/ better this thread is since the OP stopped posting...

Yes it is amazing, when you take the hardcore religionists out of the equasion everything becomes peaceful...

Quite interesting eh

reply to post by yes4141


When we approach a subject with sincerity and humble discussion, it can become an interesting debate. When one feels threatened by a challenger, they become aggressive and make derogatory statements to deflect the idea that they may be wrong. I do this myself...it is human nature. When I try to prove something that I believe with every cell of my body and someone else spits out something that may cause me to question my own belief, I have a tendency to get angry too. In the last few years, I have been able to hang on a little tighter to impulses that make me want to get aggressive with words. Don't get me wrong, I do not back down from anything or anyone, but I will fight back when it is necessary. Unfortunately, I still live by the saying, "When you get hit, hit back harder." The difference is, I wait until their hit hurts me. Fortunately, in this thread...it didn't hurt. lol

Good stuff guys. Keep it going.

Originally posted by RevelationGeneration
Question for *Anybody who can think rationally*

[FIXED]

Seriously though, I don't think its rational (not that we could expect that sort of thing from someone who does not believe in evolution) to come into the forums requesting PROOF of evolution, when you have no PROOF that creation ever happened.

Where is the proof that a flying spaghetti monster came an created humans out of thin air 4,000 years ago? Its not there, and don't ask me to disprove it or hide behind the idea that I can't disprove a god, because it is literally impossible to prove a negative. Look up logical fallacies if you don't believe me.

Rather than asking where the proof for evolution is (there is much more of it than any proof for a creator), perhaps you should be asking yourself why you are so against the idea of evolution that you refuse to see the proof that is right in front of you.

Faith is a shield for the weak....

reply to post by malachi777


Funny you talk about gills are you aware human babies are sometimes born with gill slits. The explanation for this is simple every embryo has gill slits but they just dont close. Now ask your self why a human embryo would have gill slits in the first place.

reply to post by RevelationGeneration


Try this

Darwin's Finches

or this

Bacterial Evolution

or this

Antibiotic resistance in bacteria

or this

Evolution in Action: Salamanders

I could go on, but I'm sure you will find a way to debunk all of this scientific data.

what I don't understand is...why would a guy making a thread like this, knowing fully not many of us are qualified to answer his question since not many has a degree on science...troll?

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by rhinoceros

Originally posted by undo
for example, i've taken so many antibiotics in my lifetime, they most of them no longer work for me. that's an example of genetic mutation but i'm still human and no part of that mutation has made me more fish like or whatever.

Why would the antibiotics mutate you?

Antibiotics stop working because the bacterial populations they target mutate.

Are you sure you're as old and wise as you claim to be?

then why does a child of mine, in my own home, still able to have bacterial infections treated with antibiotics my body no longer finds effective? same bacteria, same antibiotic, same environment, same diet, shared DNA, two different people, one who can't use most antibiotics effectively anymore, and the other, who can.

Most likely explanation is that your immune system is very weak in comparison to that of your child (likely if you're over 50). Most antibiotics don't actually kill the invading bacteria, but suppress their growth so meanwhile the host immune system can deal with them.

Another explanation (thou very unlikely since you're alive) is that you're chronically infected with multiple antibiotic resistant bacterial species.

Third explanation is that it's just your imagination. In general whether an antibiotic works or not depends completely on the genetics of the pathogen (usually presence of some plasmid or resistance island).

Either way, antibiotics have not introduced any mutations to your genome. Antibiotic resistance 101..