I Was A Deluded 9/11 Truther

Originally posted by Master_007
The only people i know that would appose a full and open investigation into 9/11 are people that are guilty and have something to hide and with so many people not buying the offical fairy story then if they were inocent then they would let a new investigation go ahead to clear their names.

Turkeys do not vote for christmas and politicans won't vote when they know the powers that be have dirt on them else they would not had been allowed to reach top level of goverment, it's gang mentality at it's best.

That makes sense. But what doesn't make sense is a demand from the "truthers" for "a full and open investigation". How many investigations should be launched and funded by the government before the "truthers" give up their demand for another? "Truthers" would declare as compromised any commission that doesn't conclude what they believe to be true. And you know as well as anyone that no commission of enquiry will conclude what the "truthers" believe to be true. So why bother?

Originally posted by Master_007
"What is not understandable is why the "debunkers" resort to it, when their version is the basis for the actions of the government and there is not even the remotest possibility that the official version will change significantly from what it is now"

Well we are not about ready to throw in the towel and our numbers have been growing over the past ten years so it's only a matter of time before we get some justice.

You can not un-learn the laws of physics and given our day in court even if it takes 100 years then we will blow the offical fariy tale out the water once and for all.

I am not sure you are serious.

Have you considered the international consequences of an official admission by the United States that the events of September 11, 2001 were actually orchestrated by the US government either filfully or by inaction?

reply to post by Observor

Regardless of who does it, it is emotional blackmail and shows desperation. But the "truthers" getting desperate is understandable since their version is not the version on whose basis actions are being taken by the government. What is not understandable is why the "debunkers" resort to it, when their version is the basis for the actions of the government and there is not even the remotest possibility that the official version will change significantly from what it is now.

Well I have to argue that I can see why both sides would use it. Its a tool in debate, an unethical and questionable one that shouldn't be used. It evidently will though regardless of who's right or who takes what position.

I personally don't believe any claims merely because they are in conformity with an explanation I believe. I am more of a sceptic than any "debunkers", so don't really need any help there. I am not interested in playing the detective pretending to identify the perpetrators citing "evidence" from anyone who claims to have it and "experts" who declare what is possible and what is not. I go strictly by officially confirmed information, my own personal knowledge of what is possible and what is not and logic.

Thats what I try to do too, though my thing regarding conspiracy theorist and skeptics wasn't directed at you. Though you always can't go off of confirmed evidence on everything. Some things are still being speculated and unconfirmed and thats why we argue, research, in till it becomes confirmed.

I doubt the honesty of anyone who claims to be agnostic/ignorant and comfortable about one set of terrorist attacks (the anthrax attacks), but knows what happened with regard to another (WTC and Pentagon attacks) sufficiently enough to actively peddle it to others when both happened around the same time and under the same administration. That, as is evident, includes not just the "debunkers", but all the "truthers" on here as well.

Fair enough, I haven't looked too much into the Anthrax attacks. From what I have though the whole thing is just a mess. So I'm skeptical on it in till I get there and research it in detail. Even though you said yourself

Sure, everything is not a conspiracy, but the trick is to be able to tell which is and which is not.

And thats what I'm aiming to find out. Perhaps the anthrax scare was a conspiracy, I'm not sure yet but as of right now were debating the 9/11 event. From what I've gathered and through reason and common sense it would just be too big for the government to pull off.

EDIT: I should point out, to big to pull off form the way the Truthers describe it.

reply to post by SteveR


Honestly, some folks should not have access to digital equipment. This has the look and feel of someone with pure egotism - that is, he feels he is correct (former "truther" eewww.) and that everything else is total b.s. if it's not the same vantage point.

Man. Some folks just never get it. On and on... what will tomorrow's label be? Indies for Dogs and Walruses ? Just shut up.

You may get 100 stars and flags, but you won't get one from me - sushi boi. What's with the matching mic cable and t-shirt trick anyway?

Uggh. 100 ways to annoying? That's this video.

Originally posted by chetinglendalevillage
reply to post by SteveR

 

What's with the matching mic cable and t-shirt trick anyway?

Its called a wireless microphone. No trick involved, just science!!

Originally posted by Mcupobob
Perhaps the anthrax scare was a conspiracy, I'm not sure yet but as of right now were debating the 9/11 event.

I am not directing this at anyone in particular, including you, but that, delinking 9/11 debate from the anthrax attacks, is the dishonest strategy of ignoring inconvenient facts that don't fit the explanation. I can't see how they can be delinked especially when they were so close and the anthrax letters contained references to 9/11.

From what I've gathered and through reason and common sense it would just be too big for the government to pull off.

EDIT: I should point out, to big to pull off form the way the Truthers describe it.

That is another thing that I find funny about the "truthers", their attempting to explain exactly what happened as if they know all the details. I don't engage in it. I simply use a technique called, reductio ad absurdum, proof by contradiction. If an explanation cannot possibly be true and the one in charge of providing an explanation is not interested in providing a more plausible one, that person/group is responsible. Since I am not in charge of providing an explanation, I don't have to. The government is and has to.

reply to post by DBCooper71


Because you need to get people angry and upset. They wouldn't care as much about problems in other countries, but now that they were directly affected by it on home soil, well that brings up emotions in people, which they want to act on.

That would be my take on "why" they would do it.

reply to post by SteveR


Sorry to bust your bubble but the scientific evidence is in and it is indisputable. 911 was an inside job, top, bottom, and sideways.

You are behind the curve, man.

The conversation has moved the bar up to "the mafia inside the Beltway that did it."

Check out Dr. Tarpley's website at tarpley(dot)net and find the "Angel is Next" piece to catch up.

Originally posted by beijingyank
reply to post by SteveR

 

Sorry to bust your bubble but the scientific evidence is in and it is indisputable. 911 was an inside job, top, bottom, and sideways.

You are behind the curve, man.

The conversation has moved the bar up to "the mafia inside the Beltway that did it."

Check out Dr. Tarpley's website at tarpley(dot)net and find the "Angel is Next" piece to catch up.

edit on 17-9-2011 by beijingyank because: spelling

What scientific evidence?

I've only heard people saying that their opinion is that the official story is impossible, then supplying what they consider to be "possible." It is not done with scientific evidence, but rhetoric instead.

reply to post by DaemusAlphae


So how does this explain why Silverstein said of building 7, "we gave the order to pull it," how does it explain the huge number of puts on American and United that week (over 10X normal and way above the previous record, and only those two airlines), how does it explain why Dick Cheney rescinded an airline intercept standing order protocol that was nearly half a century old (which is why 5 fighter jets were on the 6 of the plane Paine Stuart perished on), and how does this explain that the airplanes were flying 20% over design maximum speed (which should have rendered them unmaneuverable at best, more likely they should have started flexing wildly and then ripped in half, like Egypt flight 99), and how does it explain that in 100 tries, none of the 10 experienced airline pilots who tried were able to maneuver an airliner at top speed into a building (in the simulator)? EVERY ONE OF THEM MISSED. They ALL SUCCEEDED at landing speed, but NONE SUCCEEDED at top speed. If someone actually believes that 19 guys in caves with NO HOURS in commercial airliners could really outsmart the North American Air Defense Grid without inside help, and then with perfect placement at insane speed fly a plane into a building (newbies were 2 for 2 when the experienced pilots were 0 for 100) they are dreaming. YES THERE ARE lots of Muslims who want to die a martyr's death and take a bunch of "infidel" skulls with them to Allah, and would have jumped at the chance to participate in a major strike. And yes the Islamic hoards were crossing and conquering Europe in 732 AD until they ran into Charles Martel. Lots of Muslims wanted us dead then and still do. The Islamic threat is real. But the idea that they could pull off these attacks without inside help is preposterous.

And of course, the terrorists and the insiders have won. The military-industrial complex got lots of new orders for equipment and munitions, and government bureaucracy is vastly expanded (DHS, Fusion centers, TSA. etc.). The oil barons got their Afghan pipeline and have confiscated Iraq's oil (now they have Libya's, too). The terrorists have seen the American economy go from merely down to complete free-fall towards collapse, as the burden of colossal government sucks us down, so they win, too. And of course Silverstein walked off with a couple $ billion after investing in a total loser (twin towers were losing money hand over fist and were facing a $1.2B bravo-Billion charge for asbestos removal). Pretty shrewd way to make money, but I wouldn't want to die and have to explain how I was complicit in killing thousands and robbing the insurance company to the Almighty.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by MathiasAndrew

 

AE911 is a fringe orginisation.

Associate with them at your own peril.

I see you trolling right there, yeah GOOD LUCK WITH THAT!

Originally posted by SteveR
I am happy to see people are finally waking up. There comes a point when God given critical analysis and intellect triumphs over a misplaced sense of justice and a need to believe. For many, the subconscious denial and selective thinking necessitated by those strong emotions has run its course. One runs out of straws to grasp when those straws always run contrary to fact.

For this man, it eventually became unsustainable.

He goes some way to righting his wrongs in this vid.

Perhaps for some, there will never be sufficient explanations. No matter what I or anyone posts. But those people are not operating logically and as consequence, they furnish themselves with a distorted mental model of the world. There are variations, but it loosely follows the same pattern of reverse implication.

President Bush and his Zionist buddies conspired to murder 3000 of their own people for political gain. There are no Al Qaeda or Islamic fundamentalists, just fictional bogeymen cooked up by CIA operatives.

This should be openly challenged in society wherever it rears its ugly head, not only are these views toxic to the country, but they completely deny the very threats we face from Islamic terrorism.

In this way it is a major injustice to the men, women and children who were taken from us that fateful day, by none other than Islamic terrorists.

I too was a convinced conspiracist. I studied the peculiarities and technicalities of these claims for five years. In an exhaustive search of sources, way beyond those supplied on the typical truth sites and threads, I can finally say nothing has truly stood up to critical analysis. It is true that people simply believe what they want to believe.

Sorry to disappoint those who expected a litany of debunking facts. I am happy to discuss details, but remember, if I could find them so can you. A rational mind does his/her homework before making dramatic claims. If you jump on the bandwagon because it's 'hip' and you've seen a few videos (like the utterly discredited Loose Change), you are just surrendering your intellect to others. A sin and a shame.

There are plenty of very important discussions to be had about 9/11 and its consequences, but the truth movement is far more interested in the fantastical. Another disservice.


"The search for truth and knowledge is one of the finest attributes of a man, though often it is most loudly voiced by those who strive for it the least." -- Albert Einstein

Just thought your excellent OP , should be shown again , totally agree with the argument you present .
The thought processes of some of the Truthers reminds me at times of Holocaust deniers, note Iam not saying they are holocaust deniers only the theories seem to be based on the same refuting of facts and logic.
Perhaps it is some sort of mental illness?

Originally posted by RomanMaroni
I notice a lot of posters claiming the government would never kill 3000 citizens. The Iraq war was based on fabricated lies, and the administration knew they were lies. They even added to them to make them seem more urgent. These men ordered our military, aka US citizens, into a war. They knew some were going to die. They knew enemies were going to die. They knew civilians were going to die. They knew every person who knew a civilian that was killed by US weaponry would became an enemy. Thus, creating greater future risk.There has been 4474 US military casualties as well as another 300+ coalition deaths totaling 4792 deaths. 32,159 wounded US soldiers, 100,000+ KNOWN civilian deaths, All these atrocities were as a result of known lies. A war ordered to further a cause. I just don't see how you know this, but you still don't believe the government wouldn't kill 3000? George W Bush ordered this, and he seems perfectly fine with his decisions. I think I saw him at a football game over the weekend being honored and celebrated.

Do I think George Bush was in on a conspiracy on 9/11? No. I wanted to just throw out an example of how flawed I see the "the government wouldn't kill 3000 people" argument.

I found the video to be rather lacking of information. Seems it was just to try to belittle a group of people, the majority of which he has never met. I don't believe the 9/11 commission's report. I guess that makes me a 9/11 truther. So I guess I am deluded, but in understanding the hijackers themselves, I see some glaring issues. These hijackers always seemed to be one step ahead, they always seemed to be "lucky", ... Just look at Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid Almihdhar. www.historycommons.org... And understanding Ramzi Yousef might be a good idea, too. www.historycommons.org... And I think Operation Bojinka is important, seeing as it is basically the blueprint for 9/11. www.historycommons.org... But be forewarned. You can't unlearn what you read there and you may become deluded, too.

I know it's not the WTC collapse, so it may not interest many, but herein lies the conspiracy.

Edit to add: I can't link directly to the individual categories. On the right, click on any of the choices under "Categories".

edit on 15-9-2011 by RomanMaroni because: (no reason given)

So in your opinion Islam is America's BEST FRIEND?? They NEVER attacked Americans on US Soil? Is that what you're saying?

Originally posted by joinreality

So in your opinion Islam is America's BEST FRIEND?? They NEVER attacked Americans on US Soil? Is that what you're saying?

I don't think Islam has attacked anyone?

You might as well say Christianity invaded the ME.

None of this has anything to do with religion, that is just propaganda to get you emotional, much like the press always calls riots 'race riots', when they are far from it.

Originally posted by Dr Expired

Just thought your excellent OP , should be shown again , totally agree with the argument you present .
The thought processes of some of the Truthers reminds me at times of Holocaust deniers, note Iam not saying they are holocaust deniers only the theories seem to be based on the same refuting of facts and logic.
Perhaps it is some sort of mental illness?

So you start off by first grouping people asking questions about the official story of 9/11 with Holocaust deniers? Anybody who denies the holocaust happened is a fool and moron, and I can assure you I do not deny it happened, my great grandfather left Poland to escape the Nazis. Then you go on to say we must have some sort of mental illness? Who raised you? Personal attacks against people you don't even know. You should be ashamed of your own behavior.

Edit:

"note Iam not saying they are holocaust deniers"

No, but you are directly relating one to the other. "I'm not saying they are (insert stereotype)," sure sounds like something I hear on popular opinion "news" channels.

Originally posted by Varemia

What scientific evidence?

The explanation of the laws of motion that we keep going on about over and over again, that you keep ignoring.

I've only heard people saying that their opinion is that the official story is impossible, then supplying what they consider to be "possible." It is not done with scientific evidence, but rhetoric instead.

Physics are not anyone's opinion, they are laws.

When are you going to correct us on the physics and explain how the laws of motion, specifically the 3rd law, and the momentum conservation laws came into play in the collapses? None of you have done that yet, but you can waffle on all day telling us we're wrong, or misrepresenting it.

You have offered absoluteness NO physics to support your claims. Unless you address those laws, you have not addressed the physics.

Originally posted by ChaoticOrder

Originally posted by ColoradoJens
reply to post by ChaoticOrder

 

I couldn't care less if you attacked yourself or if someone attacked you.

You wrote it - own up to it.

You are completely misunderstanding what I meant. Just because I don't care whether it was a terrorist attack or inside job doesn't mean I like to see people murdered. I'm simply saying I don't have any influences that would make me want to believe it was an inside job or a terrorist attack - either is plausible in my mind. I'm not American so I can easily accept the theory of an inside job and I can also easily accept the theory of a terrorist attack - it just depends of the evidence, which is clearly suspect. I was responding to what the OP said about moving past emotions and coming to terms with the facts. You are warping what I said into something it didn't mean.

edit: you obviously think I meant "I don't care if you guys get attacked, whether someone else does it or you do it to yourself". Not at all. Read it again.

edit on 15-9-2011 by ChaoticOrder because: (no reason given)

Then you need to check out! I don't leave messages on forums dealing with destruction or otherwise happening in countries other than my own because: 1. It's not my business and 2. IT'S NOT MY BUSINESS!

Originally posted by ANOK

Originally posted by joinreality

So in your opinion Islam is America's BEST FRIEND?? They NEVER attacked Americans on US Soil? Is that what you're saying?

I don't think Islam has attacked anyone?

You might as well say Christianity invaded the ME.

None of this has anything to do with religion, that is just propaganda to get you emotional, much like the press always calls riots 'race riots', when they are far from it.

Interesting ..... The Fawta's were: that Muslims should kill civilians and military personnel from the United States and allied countries until they withdraw support for Israel and withdraw military forces from Islamic countries. Is that made up by US Government too?

Originally posted by joinreality

Interesting ..... The Fawta's were: that Muslims should kill civilians and military personnel from the United States and allied countries until they withdraw support for Israel and withdraw military forces from Islamic countries. Is that made up by US Government too?

I'm not denying someone said that, but do you really believe all Muslims want to kill Americans? Really?

My Muslim Pakistani neighbor hasn't attempted it yet, in fact I would consider him a good neighbor and friend.

You have to realise the fanatics that get blown out of proportion in the press, in order to create an emotional response from you, are not the average Muslim.

Islam is a religion, TPTB make it political in order to achieve an agenda. The acts of a small minority fill the media giving you an unrealistic world view.

Originally posted by Dr Expired
The thought processes of some of the Truthers reminds me at times of Holocaust deniers, note Iam not saying they are holocaust deniers only the theories seem to be based on the same refuting of facts and logic.
Perhaps it is some sort of mental illness?

The thought process of the "debunkers" is based on selecting facts that confirm their claims and denying the rest and completely defying logic. Yeah, it is a mental illness, a psychosis, in fact.