Enough with the dishonest behaviour Truthers - I'm calling you out.

Originally posted by Venomilk

Originally posted by hooper
reply to post by Venomilk

 

....how can it make molten steel that lasts weeks....

Please show any proof, reference, or link that would indicate that there was molten steel weeks later. Never mind, there isn't any. Workers and responders reported red hot spots in the huge pile of burning rubble for weeks. If you can't figure out how a huge pile of rubble containings hundreds of thousands of tons of combustible material can keep buring for weeks then you weren't paying attention in science class in grade school.

already posted a compilation of news clips/first responder testimony, you fail

second off, fireproofed steal beams are hardly combustable. even if the fireproofing is sheared off at parts by the plane, its still impossible.

>> With my son's boyscout group, we slept one night on an aircraft carrier. They explained the INSULATION on some of the steel columns and walls was to PREVENT fires from spreading. There was NO WORRY that fuel, munitions, or anything else would melt or weaken the steel.

So EVEN if insulation is stripped from steel -- it doesn't effect the steel. In fact, it makes the steel LESS weakened by fire as it transmits the heat away more effectively. It's only to prevent fires from spreading that they insulate these supports in the first place.

So the whole debate about the airplane explosion stripping off insulation was IGNORANT of the purpose of the insulation to begin with.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
reply to post by hmdphantom

 

3. New World Order or new world order? Putting it into caps makes it seem like there's a secret orginisation. That's not based on anything but conjecture and the coincidental timing says more about your mindset than anything else.

FBI files says hi

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/0c120b136ca7.png[/atsimg]


Note: Everything here is on topic, just wait and see the connection and you will understand

You wanna know what grinds my gears? That to know there's a conspiracy, all you need to do is to study history and trace things back to origin. I suggest you look at the history of the federal reserve and realize that the private bank is unconstitutional and why the U.S declared it's independence in the first place.

I'll give you a hint: Nathan Rothschild and Andrew Jackson.

Abraham Lincoln assassinated after he created the dollar.

Now you still think there isn't a shadow government? Then Why was john F Kennedy scared and tried to warn us?



Oh btw, he died after making that speech and ironically after signing executive order 11110 which would have taken away the power of the Federal reserve.

www.john-f-kennedy.net...

perhaps you can explain this card which appeared in 1995 and just so happens to be part of a series of cards titled "illuminati" that has had so far a 100% prediction rate including the economy collapse, japanese EQ 104 hours before it happened etc.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/946058e8dade.jpg[/atsimg]

Which btw, ironically as mentioned in the thread below I linked to you, contains how the towers fell in such detail, that includes the top part of a tower slight lightly inclined which means the full weight of the top of the tower was not all on the whole building but instead in a free fall. ANOTHER thing to mention is that the illuminati card shows the exact same thing :O WHAT ARE THE ODDS? No seriously, what are the odds of a card that came out in 1995 that shows the twin towers and one of the falling the exact same way as the card?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c16d3bbc7e3b.jpg[/atsimg]

I suggest you take a long good look at a recent Thread below.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


What does everything here have to do with eachother? That it is all connected to one source, the bankers that infiltrated the U.S back in 1913. This thing goes even farther back , say even a thousand years if you can trace the Rothschild bloodline to the past.


But I wont even go there.

Point is, there is alot more evidence that suggests this was an inside Job.

OH and let us not forget this video



Would you mind explaining why the NOW leader of al qaeda was dining at the pentagon months AFTER 911?

You called, I came. Now I want you to answer and explain what I showed you.

I am open minded but not to evidence I already looked into and dismissed as a lie.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst


Well, as a matter of fact, all OSrs fail to address the issue of the twin towers being giant heat sinks, of interwoven steel members transmitting heat everywhere, thereby reducing the localised heat and evening it out through the structure, but this will be called "truther facts" so dont even bother...

Seems to me OP your stroking your own epeen here. Why is it truther has become a dirty word. Regardless of what a person beleives it does not give you the right to demean them in any way.

if you want to prove people are wrong show proof, form an arguement and back it up in. Instead you have chossen to attack them.

Personally I don't beleive the offical story but I don't beleive there was no planes or space weapons. I do believe that the US goverment allowed it to happen or helped the plot along.

In saying that there are far to many questions about building 7 that YOU have failed to deal with meaning even you have issues with that.

Originally posted by captainnotsoobvious
Time and time again I see the same BS from the Truther movement and time and time again, when they're presented irrefutable facts they stop posting on threads and disappear.

So, enough of that.

I'm calling you out.

Here's some BS you can no longer claim to be true:


1. No other building ever collapsed from fire - A BS argument:

- No other buildings have been built like the Twin Towers
- No other sky scrapers have been hit full speed by planes that size
- The only two buildings built like the towers, hit by planes, both behave EXACTLY the same way


6. 1/10th or 1% of active engineers in America is a meaningful amount. - NOT TRUE

- In most polls you see, the margin of error is between 1-3%, the Truthers can't even get a 10th of that number of ACTIVE AMERICAN ENGINEERS on their side. If you include retired Engineers (a significant number of their signees are retired) the number drops to something like 1/100 of 1%, add Architects and it's like 1/1000%. Make that a worldwide number (they do btw) and it's like 1/10000 of 1%. So, 1 in 100,000 of all Architects and Engineers worldwide have signed this thing. Not so impressive. In fact, I'd rather trust the 99,999/1000,000 who haven't.

edit on 12-9-2011 by captainnotsoobvious because: (no reason given)

edit on 12-9-2011 by captainnotsoobvious because: (no reason given)

I wouldn't really consider myself a truther as I mostly just read rather than post however I'd like to point out that
1. 1/10 is not 1% but is in fact 10%
2. One of the WTC buildings caught on fire in february of 1975 before without collapsing into its own foot print.

heres a link with some info on the '75 fire though I'm not too sure the protocol for such
whatreallyhappened.com...

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious


Listen unless we planned it or were privy to some info from someone who did then we will not know ever.

But the question should be do you think that there are people who would do this to make a profit then my answer is yes there is.

Our world leaders let millions die from starvation and preventable disease and wage war on inferior nations under the pretence of peace when the reality is that all these things happen for one thing and one thing only.

Also anyone seen the amazing new buildings they want to build who pays for them us and who builds them us but who owns them?

One man cannot make an army but one man can lead an army. Our leaders are the followers and profit and power is there desire.

Simply put money makes the world go round and when were short of a few dollors/pounds and have assets that can be destroyed for a quick gain no matter the cost in human life be it your fellow citizen or a forigener what is the difference, I see none well not in this life anyway,

If you think No this would never happen then the world you see is not the one I see.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst


hey, its the argument they gave on why fireproofed beams could let the towers collapse.
yet there IS molten steel under the towers for weeks after, or many of the first responders were just hallucinating. i keep getting told that there is no evidence, blah blah. but yet debunkers still have to explain how the molten steel couldve gotten there.
www.debunking911.com...
not surprised its the #1 google link


yet the nist report says there was no molten steel. so what are they debunking? you got the people in charge of searching through this rubble saying its there, debunkers writing blogs to try to explain this impossibility, and nist saying "what molten steel"

hey, heres a link with dozens of other links to back me up (that nobody will see)
georgewashington.blogspot.com...

@ OP:



The proof is overwhelming.

Call me a Truther, Birther, Deather - But you're just in denial.

Originally posted by wrkn4livn

Originally posted by spav5
And what is it that you wish to accomplish?

Peace

Uh,.. how about spread the real truth? That there was not a clandestine group of "mole-men" explosive assassins that somehow laid explosives throughout BOTH towers, and building 7, without being caught and blew up the Pentagon too!?
I think the person as had enough of sitting quite and reading all the outrageous stories about some government group destroying the Trade Center.
Did our Government know about the potential for an attack! Absolutely. Did they do enough to stop it? Absolutely NOT!
But, our government DIDN'T DO IT!

And your opinion is based on what? The report of the commission, or just your patriotic sense of duty?...not sure which I would find more distasteful.

Peace

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious


Logic and evaluation should tell any human being with a decent brain that something wasn't right with building 7. It is PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for column heat stress failure to ensue simultaneously throughout the building in such a way as to result in a PERFECTLY SYMMETRICAL collapse. I do a lot of structural inspections in the construction field and have seen lower-scale failures before. The OS on building 7 is simply is not possible, really not even conceivable if people would just use logical critical thinking.

Originally posted by Saltarello
reply to post by VitriolAndAngst

 

Well, as a matter of fact, all OSrs fail to address the issue of the twin towers being giant heat sinks, of interwoven steel members transmitting heat everywhere, thereby reducing the localised heat and evening it out through the structure, but this will be called "truther facts" so dont even bother...

Not to mention that Kerosene (Jet Fuel) only gets about as hot as a normal office fire (they are pretty hot to begin with).

Yeah, HEAT LOAD is more important than the "ideal" temperature. That's why the hour and a half time period is also TOO SHORT. The Jet Fuel is estimated to have burned out in about 15 minutes.

The Oven in your kitchen only has a thin sheet of metal, yet it can contain 600 degrees temperature -- but the heating elements are EVEN HOTTER. It is VERY HARD to weaken or melt steel at more than just a contact point unless you put it in a blast furnace.

>> The OTHER thing about a steel building and heat load -- there is NO WAY it's going to be symmetrical. How the heck do all of the joists fail all around the building within 1/10th of a second of each other so that the building doesn't topple over?

Here is how dumb the Truthers arguements are.Because peope started jumping out of the building because it was to hot and on fire that must mean the steel frame was gettign hot and people where on fire.No fires here move along people.Defintely a bomb planted few months ago just in case a terrorist attacks happens lets plant some bombs just in case.Maybe the people jumping slipped on banana peels.Or maybe they they thought they could fly,or maybe they saw the ghost of other dead people and it scared them so much that they jumped wildly out the windows.Or maybe they was guided by sonar beams and brain wave communication interceptors to guide them to jump out the window.Or maybe they where just to hot and on fire?

reply to post by captainnotsoobvious


You know Captain, sometimes you just know in your gut, something isn't right. You may not have the physicial evidence, or you may not even need it, you just know something isn't right.

Originally posted by MentalGiant
Thank you for proving in your own post a demolition technique I have never seen before, now I believe more than ever, the buildings were demoed. I have a stronger argument, and more proof now, because of you. Thanks!!!!

I also want to point out many inconsistencies in your argument, but it is so silly, i am not going to waste my time. Your post is redundant, and your eyes and ears are closed.

Some great advise I was given once....."Never argue with an insane person...because from a distance, noone can tell who is crazy".....So, have a good day, redundant, eyes closed, crazy person.... Ive got productive thibgs to do, I cannot waste my day with someone who has spent 10 years ignoring the "elephant in the room".

----------------------
I, too, would like to thank OP for that video showing a demolition technique I had never heard of before this!
I don't know OP, you did provide a few videos; but where's the proof that Gage is a liar, etc? I don't consider myself a truther, per se, but there are too many unanswered questions, and I do think a new investigation is in order. I would like that investigation to be independent!

I thought this video was interesting; it's called, "WTC POWERS DOWN BEFORE 9/11":

Originally posted by Jobeycool
Here is how dumb the Truthers arguements are.Because peope started jumping out of the building because it was to hot and on fire that must mean the steel frame was gettign hot and people where on fire.No fires here move along people.Defintely a bomb planted few months ago just in case a terrorist attacks happens lets plant some bombs just in case.Maybe the people jumping slipped on banana peels.Or maybe they they thought they could fly,or maybe they saw the ghost of other dead people and it scared them so much that they jumped wildly out the windows.Or maybe they was guided by sonar beams and brain wave communication interceptors to guide them to jump out the window.Or maybe they where just to hot and on fire?

edit on 12-9-2011 by Jobeycool because: (no reason given)

And you call truthers dumb?

1975 fire caused renovations @ WTC to ensure that fires COULD NOT spread from floor to floor.
Insulation on the metal was stripped off, yes, but the insulation was to prevent fires from spreading, not to prevent metal from heating up. So even it spread, it could not spread to more than a few floors, max.

Originally posted by Venomilk
reply to post by VitriolAndAngst

 

hey, its the argument they gave on why fireproofed beams could let the towers collapse.
yet there IS molten steel under the towers for weeks after, or many of the first responders were just hallucinating. i keep getting told that there is no evidence, blah blah. but yet debunkers still have to explain how the molten steel couldve gotten there.
www.debunking911.com...
not surprised its the #1 google link


yet the nist report says there was no molten steel. so what are they debunking? you got the people in charge of searching through this rubble saying its there, debunkers writing blogs to try to explain this impossibility, and nist saying "what molten steel"

hey, heres a link with dozens of other links to back me up (that nobody will see)
georgewashington.blogspot.com...

edit on 12-9-2011 by Venomilk because: (no reason given)

Here is ANOTHER THING that people who think the Bush Government was telling the truth about the WTC collapse FAIL TO COMPREHEND -- the NIST doesn't explain how the dang building collapsed!

FROM A POST ON ATS

There were 10,000 pages in the entire NIST report, and this is the half-page that explains what happens after the collapse began:

The report was title "Final Report on the Collapse of the Twin Towers", yet it contains absolutely no analysis or calculations whatsoever. This is not a scientific investigation, this is a cover-up.

In a response to a letter requesting an explanation on the collapse, NIST said the following: "We are unable to provide a full explanation of the total collapse."

Gage goes on to explain a book describing the distractions within the NIST report, the unfounded assumptions, omissions, lies, tweaked computer models, and more.

NIST refuses to show their computer visualizations that they tweaked until they matched the desired outcome, despite multiple requests. The former chief of NISTs Fire Science Department, Dr. Quintiere, has called for a new independent investigation.

>> Those claiming the official report is somehow accurate -- don't know the official report.

The NIST report has thousands of pages of "steel beam A had X vertical strength" -- which is all well and good and just man-hours of some government bureaucrat doing their job as an engineer and reporting that 2+2=4.

The CONCLUSION is a just a scribbled in "opinion" with no support of the Bush appointed flunky.


>> Here's another thing that should start alarm bells -- the OVERLAP of all the "experts" who support the Government conclusion;


-- I'd always felt that the Popular Mechanics piece was so thoroughly un-scientific when I read it. And I hadn't known that these people were connected.

Maybe Bush was up in the WTC towers at the time and planted explosives real fast with Donald Rumsfeld and they ran down real real fast in disguises and dove into a fire truck with fake fire fighters and Cheney was driving the fire truck.Then they drove on down right to Wahsignton D.C. and had a missle launcher on them and shot it at the Pentagon.
Also for Flight 93 Bush and Cheney had a remote control plane and decided this is a bit overboard so they decided to crash it into the ground so they would not get caught.

reply to post by VitriolAndAngst


theres no point anymore..... they obviously have what happened firmly in their minds and will never accept that there is more evidence of what happened than what they say there is. just because they say it isnt there, or never looked, doesnt mean it not there.

im done. anyone ignoring the proof of molten steel under the towers will ignore any other evidence.
the steel couldve been melted by them damn ayrabs, but we never try to explain how.
so whats the point of bringing up any evidence?
you go based on the evidence available, not whatever evidence could be used to make your "THEORY" fit better

yes, the OS is a theory. 9/11 forums are haunted by ignorance and frustrated questioning....

reply to post by RisenAngel77


well put and very interesting reads...and i agree it is all connected in a very deep manner and i am glad to see yet another person who connects the dots.....you might have a short look at my signature thread as in there is does touch on a fews issues of what you have mentioned...be well

Originally posted by Konstantinos

Originally posted by Jobeycool
Here is how dumb the Truthers arguements are.Because peope started jumping out of the building because it was to hot and on fire that must mean the steel frame was gettign hot and people where on fire.No fires here move along people.Defintely a bomb planted few months ago just in case a terrorist attacks happens lets plant some bombs just in case.Maybe the people jumping slipped on banana peels.Or maybe they they thought they could fly,or maybe they saw the ghost of other dead people and it scared them so much that they jumped wildly out the windows.Or maybe they was guided by sonar beams and brain wave communication interceptors to guide them to jump out the window.Or maybe they where just to hot and on fire?

edit on 12-9-2011 by Jobeycool because: (no reason given)

And you call truthers dumb?

1975 fire caused renovations @ WTC to ensure that fires COULD NOT spread from floor to floor.
Insulation on the metal was stripped off, yes, but the insulation was to prevent fires from spreading, not to prevent metal from heating up. So even it spread, it could not spread to more than a few floors, max.

edit on 12-9-2011 by Konstantinos because: (no reason given)

The 1975 fire ALSO occurred before the building had a sprinkler system added -- and lasted LONGER than the ones that took it down on 9/11/2001.

So, basically -- the idea that a COMMON FIRE -- even one that had 15 minutes of Jet Fuel heating it up, could bring down the building needs some PROOF.