I Am a Straight, Married Christian Male in Support of Gay Marriage

Originally posted by mugger
The OP stated that marriage is like a contract. I do believe it is, with God and the church, it was never supposed to be a contract with any lawyer or the government. Our government should not be involved with this issue since it is church separation from the state. The state/feds have no right to marry anyone. The license the state issues is bogus and nothing more than a tax grab. Do I need the State/County/City involved in my marriage anymore than they meddle and now tax to have a yard sale? Ban or tax kids lemonade stands?

Yes, but "Politicians" need issues to run on. So, over time, the various political candidates pushed more and more of peoples personal lives into their forte and introduced laws to please the voters of the times. But, times change and new politicians take advantage of the new attitudes to continue to meddle with the lives of the folk.

A marriage contract is really a contract with god, not with each other.

What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. -- Mark 10:9 KJV

It is not man that joins himself to woman, nor civil law that joins them, but "God hath joined together", and no man should try to "put asunder" that union.

BUT ...this is the age of confusion...gays are really confused about what marriage is....they want the tax breaks...and the visitation rights...and the right not to testify against a partner....but these things have nothing to do with MARRIAGE....the gays and lesbians have "no clue" what marriage is at all.

What they really want is a "civil union" with some "civil benefits"...and for everybody to praise them in public.

Originally posted by DRAZIW

Originally posted by mugger
The OP stated that marriage is like a contract. I do believe it is, with God and the church, it was never supposed to be a contract with any lawyer or the government. Our government should not be involved with this issue since it is church separation from the state. The state/feds have no right to marry anyone. The license the state issues is bogus and nothing more than a tax grab. Do I need the State/County/City involved in my marriage anymore than they meddle and now tax to have a yard sale? Ban or tax kids lemonade stands?

Yes, but "Politicians" need issues to run on. So, over time, the various political candidates pushed more and more of peoples personal lives into their forte and introduced laws to please the voters of the times. But, times change and new politicians take advantage of the new attitudes to continue to meddle with the lives of the folk.

A marriage contract is really a contract with god, not with each other.

What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. -- Mark 10:9 KJV

It is not man that joins himself to woman, nor civil law that joins them, but "God hath joined together", and no man should try to "put asunder" that union.

BUT ...this is the age of confusion...gays are really confused about what marriage is....they want the tax breaks...and the visitation rights...and the right not to testify against a partner....but these things have nothing to do with MARRIAGE....the gays and lesbians have "no clue" what marriage is at all.

What they really want is a "civil union" with some "civil benefits"...and for everybody to praise them in public.

If you made CIVIL UNION equal to MARRIGE, than we would take it!

Originally posted by spw184
If you made CIVIL UNION equal to MARRIGE, than we would take it!

Done !

Just don't use the word marriage. But, take all the "civil benefits". Just leave religion out of it.

Don't force Priests to conduct gay unions.

Clergy could be sued if they refuse to carry out ‘gay marriages’, traditionalists fear

Traditionalist bishops and peers fear that vicars could be taken to court and accused of discrimination if they turn down requests to hold civil partnerships on religious premises.

Their concerns have been raised following a landmark vote by peers that will allow the ceremonies for same-sex couples to be held in places of worship for the first time.

It is also feared that the changes would blur the line further between marriage - which churches say must be between a man and a woman - and civil partnerships.

It comes after a Government drive to outlaw bias against minority groups such as homosexuals in the Equality Bill.

Until now civil partnerships, which entitle same-sex couples to the same legal rights of married spouses, have been restricted to register offices and secular venues such as hotels and stately homes.

Source: www.telegraph.co.uk...

and Canada....

Religious Freedom in Canada

Just a few months ago, a lesbian couple in the Vancouver suburb of Coquitlam arranged to rent a hall for their wedding reception from the Knights of Columbus, a Catholics men's service group. When the group discovered that the marriage was going to be between two women, they cancelled the rental agreement, stating that their religious beliefs prevented them from accommodating a same sex wedding. Even though they paid to reprint the wedding invitations and for the rental of a new hall, the couple is still suing the group in the BC Human Rights Tribunal.

Source: www.catholiceducation.org...
[

In Vermont, New York....

Two Catholic Innkeepers are being sued for refusing to host a gay wedding reception.

A Vermont inn violated state anti-discrimination rules by refusing to host the wedding reception for two New York City women, the couple said in a lawsuit Tuesday.

Source: www.creativeminorityreport.com...

A Merry list of religious vioations...

www.christianexaminer.com...

WELCOME TO HELL

Where everybody's "rights" are in conflict with everybody's "wants".

It would be fine, if the gays only wanted the tax breaks, and the visitation rights, and the right not to testify, but nooooo. they especially want to hold their "weddings" in the holy places where the religious minded folk practice their freedom of religion...they are "suing" left and right to take away the freedom of religion from every religion around them....they are truly the devils army on earth wrecking havoc everywhere they find a saintly man or woman peacefully practicing their preferred religion, calling them "bigots" and other names, and forcing the courts to take away their rights, supposedly so that they can exercise their own.

But, they could get married in any civil office, yet, nay, that's not enough.

[color=#00aa00]Why can't we exercise our rights in such a way that we don't encroach on other peoples rights to do it?

meh, im done with this conversation, unless you can bring somthing new to the table.

Ugh!

Ignorance is not worth debating.

reply to post by DRAZIW


... The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (1 Chronicles 16:30)

He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (Psalms 104:5)

I can find no mention of DNA in the bible, but you claimed to be certain of it.

Again, age of Earth is interpretation. You have declared yourself correct about your interpretations so you cannot deny other people's.

post removed by staff

This is just obscenely ignorant; and also similiarly arrogant. You claim to know all the psychological motivation for a significant group of people.

I'll make an analogy. Somebody who hates chocolate ice cream doesn't eat strawberry because they are bored with chocolate.

post removed by staff

Yes, it is almost like it is an evolutionary imperative. That or a disgustingly sadistic, capricious creator.

Originally posted by yes4141

... The world is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (1 Chronicles 16:30)

Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved. -- 1 Chronicles 16:30 KJV

Seems to me the earth is pretty stable, we've been living here on it for thousands of years, and still have reasonable climate temperatures and weather patterns that we can tolerate. This says nothing about not orbiting the sun, or not moving through space. It just refers to the fact that the earth under your feet remains under your feet, the times and the seasons repeat with stable regularity etc..

He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (Psalms 104:5)

Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. -- Psalms 104:5 KJV

Again, the earth is still here. It hasn't evaporated. The foundations are anchored firmly in material existence. Who can remove the material matter from the universe?

Again, age of Earth is interpretation. You have declared yourself correct about your interpretations so you cannot deny other people's.

I don't know who determined the age of the Earth from the bible.

This is just obscenely ignorant; and also similiarly arrogant. You claim to know all the psychological motivation for a significant group of people.

Yet a few gays think all gays want marriage. How arrogant of these individual gays to claim to know what all gays want? And again, some gays don't want to be married in a church, and believe once more that all gays think like them. Yet, wherever gay marriage has been approved, we find gays and lesbians "suing" to hold their ceremonies in the sacred places of religion.

There's no such thing as gay.

Each individual calling himself gay has his own imagination, wants, and desires, that's different from others also calling themselves gay. And yet each person calling himself gay will arrogantly claim he speaks for some class of people called "gay" on occasion, and yet on other occasions, that same person will deny he speaks for anyone but himself alone.

These gays are totally confused. They all want "something new". They want "change". Like Obama's change. But, they really don't know what they want.

I'll make an analogy. Somebody who hates chocolate ice cream doesn't eat strawberry because they are bored with chocolate.

Its' lust, I tell you. It blinds the eyes, and confuses the mind. It is the poison that causes forgetfulness. Do you remember who you were before you were born? Of course not, lust made you forget !

Originally posted by DRAZIW

Yet a few gays think all gays want marriage. How arrogant of these individual gays to claim to know what all gays want? And again, some gays don't want to be married in a church, and believe once more that all gays think like them. Yet, wherever gay marriage has been approved, we find gays and lesbians "suing" to hold their ceremonies in the sacred places of religion.

This is your argument? What? You think you are presenting some kind of revelation?

People are individuals. Gays are individuals. They are not and never have been a group think.

Many gays don't care or think they don't. But will accept and mostly benefit from the Equal Rights that others fought for.

Being that they are a rather small minority percentage - - - obviously a lot of people who are not gay care about Equal Rights. The numbers of people who support Equal Rights for gays has recently tipped the scales to majority in support.

The bigots - ignorant - homophobes are losing.

And no clergy is or ever will be in America forced to marry anyone they don't want to. They are not even forced to marry anyone of their own congregation. They have the right to say NO to anyone.

Government employees are required to follow law. Anywhere gay marriage is legal - - a government clerk who performs marriage is required to marry gays - - regardless of their personal belief.

Originally posted by DRAZIW

That the whole problem, isn't it. All gays want is "something new."

Actually the problem is that your ignorance is not confined to the plain reality that you don't understand that the word "gay" is an adjective just as much as the word "marriage" is a sacred vow between only a man and a woman. Or are you the only one allowed to push legislation based on semantic hair-splits that don't even adhere to dictionary OR biblical definitions?

They are bored with straight sex.

Most of them have never had it and never had any desire to. Sounds like you're "bored of reality", though.

Once they get their way, they'll get bored being gay. Next up, is animal sex. And the "new rights" required to enjoy that right too.

Not that there's any point of even arguing with something this plainly idiotic, but what historical trends prove this? Do you have any proof to back this up, or did some other fool just puke it in front of you to happily eat? Homosexuality is much older than your religion, and yet it hasn't warped into any form of bestiality, you're just concatenating "sexual immorality" out of sheer ignorance. A man could rape your wife and you'd blame homosexuality.

Originally posted by Partisanity
Homosexuality is much older than your religion, and yet it hasn't warped into any form of bestiality, you're just concatenating "sexual immorality" out of sheer ignorance.

The ignorance here is the complete lack of understanding of design.

A woman's front channel entrance "lubricates" naturally to receive from the outside, a natural condition that anyone with a bit of "knowledge" would understand, whether they believed in God or just Nature, and that knowledge alone tells mankind about what the various body parts are designed to do.

The back channel on man and woman, by contrast, does not "lubricate" on stimulation from the outside. It does not "prepare" for external intrusions. It only lubricates for exits, on receiving messages from the inside that feces are present and need to flow out.

Going against the design, is ignorance, pure and simple. It's like writing with one's feet, or walking with ones hands. It can be done, but is not natural by any means.

Men have experimented with various alternate forms of sexuality for eons. It does not make any of them right, just because they are older practices than some modern religion. Men have been confused and deviant for as long as there have been men on earth.

The great struggle religion has always had is to teach men "knowledge" about what is right, to help him understand design, to raise him up out of that deep dark pit of confusion and ignorance.

And yet, some of the truly ignorant spit on knowledge whenever they hear it. They reject the clarity exposed to them. Their minds refuse to see the light. So dark are their ways and their established habits, that their thoughts throw clouds around every enlightened comment directed at them. They are rebels, rebelling against God and Nature. Thwarting design at every turn. Doing their own will, for they are unable to recognize any other will than their own, especially not a Divine Will.

Nature, they believe, made an error. Man should be with man. That is their way. For what good is woman, but to carry to term? But, for men, are reserved love and lust. They would design man to lubricate on the sight of other man, if they had their way, instead of lubricating under the urge to expel waste. But, the designer had it not so, HE had other functions in mind. HE, they say, was ignorant, of the true need and usage of that back channel.

The funny and sad thing is the ignorant ones are the first to label the knowledgeable as ignorant, while possessing no knowledge of their own.

reply to post by DRAZIW

Again, the earth is still here. It hasn't evaporated. The foundations are anchored firmly in material existence. Who can remove the material matter from the universe?

But the Earth shall not be here "for ever". Again, compared to your claim that DNA is referenced in the bible this is hardly a large leap of assumption.

Yet a few gays think all gays want marriage. How arrogant of these individual gays to claim to know what all gays want? And again, some gays don't want to be married in a church, and believe once more that all gays think like them. Yet, wherever gay marriage has been approved, we find gays and lesbians "suing" to hold their ceremonies in the sacred places of religion. There's no such thing as gay. Each individual calling himself gay has his own imagination, wants, and desires, that's different from others also calling themselves gay. And yet each person calling himself gay will arrogantly claim he speaks for some class of people called "gay" on occasion, and yet on other occasions, that same person will deny he speaks for anyone but himself alone. These gays are totally confused. They all want "something new". They want "change". Like Obama's change. But, they really don't know what they want.

You're trying to claim that your ignorant generalising is acceptable because 'they' do it too? Not all gay people claim to speak on behalf of all homosexuals- in fact quite the opposite, most people don't want to be entirely defined by their sexuality.

You are simply projecting your own traits onto an entire group.

Its' lust, I tell you. It blinds the eyes, and confuses the mind. It is the poison that causes forgetfulness. Do you remember who you were before you were born? Of course not, lust made you forget !

Right. Please explain why you THINK this is. How you know what you were pre- birth (and by extension why you think all others were the same as yourself). Lust is an intrinsic and instinctive reaction- it is merely a reflex which is not planned and therefore not something that can be chosen. Of course the actions leading from this are chosen.

The ignorance here is the complete lack of understanding of design. A woman's front channel entrance "lubricates" naturally to receive from the outside, a natural condition that anyone with a bit of "knowledge" would understand, whether they believed in God or just Nature, and that knowledge alone tells mankind about what the various body parts are designed to do.

This really doesn't state any point whatsoever. You are talking on the internet via a computer. You do things which are supposedly not 'natural' but are fully possible to us. To condemn one is to idealogically condemn all things which do not come blatantly 'natural'.

Nature, they believe, made an error.

I don't know if this a purposeful dig or just profound lack of understanding and alternate thinking to your primary.

The funny and sad thing is the ignorant ones are the first to label the knowledgeable as ignorant, while possessing no knowledge of their own.

mmm... You do realise that you are the only one I have seen on this thread who has claimed to be absolutely "certain" about things to do with other people and everything else in existence? I also realise that this will be seen as your perpetual validation in your mind as people denying god is seen as an affirmation of your own 'relationship' with God/ Jesus/ Allah/ Neptune/ Zeus/ Yahweh/ Shiva etc. - "they are so foolish because they lack faith! I know the truth that they will be punished!"

reply to post by DRAZIW


Calling me ignorant? You ignore everything that everyone says, because they exist.

Then you boast knowledge? What a farce on reality.

You only take orders from fiction.

Have you even read the entire Bible? I highly doubt it. You likely happily just swallow what someone else tells you, if it's not dictated you in the distorted text form that it has become. Of course, then you regurgitate it as if your broken-telephone version has any merit, condemning people with it and acting as if it is above the law. Feel free to move to Uganda if your religious beliefs cause you clearly have a problem with Western reality.

And seriously, get more educated if you're going to argue; no legal offices are forcing religious sects to accept gay marriage. Fact. Stop bitching about non-existent "problems"

Originally posted by Partisanity
reply to post by DRAZIW

 

Calling me ignorant? You ignore everything that everyone says, because they exist.

Then you boast knowledge? What a farce on reality.

You only take orders from fiction.

Have you even read the entire Bible? I highly doubt it. You likely happily just swallow what someone else tells you, if it's not dictated you in the distorted text form that it has become. Of course, then you regurgitate it as if your broken-telephone version has any merit, condemning people with it and acting as if it is above the law. Feel free to move to Uganda if your religious beliefs cause you clearly have a problem with Western reality.

And seriously, get more educated if you're going to argue; no legal offices are forcing religious sects to accept gay marriage. Fact. Stop bitching about non-existent "problems"

edit on 8-10-2011 by Partisanity because: (no reason given)

Who wants to make a religon out of harry potter?
Ima go make the wands now...

Originally posted by spw184

 

 

How is this offtopic?

Originally posted by Annee

People are individuals. Gays are individuals. They are not and never have been a group think.

exactly, there really is no "gay" agenda, we are not a swarm of freaking bees and we do not really communicate to make a plan... the term "community" is VERY loose.

Originally posted by Annee

And no clergy is or ever will be in America forced to marry anyone they don't want to. They are not even forced to marry anyone of their own congregation. They have the right to say NO to anyone.

They don't force people to do things in America. They sue. There's a whole army of lawyers ready to take on any cause that will pay them a salary.

Government employees are required to follow law. Anywhere gay marriage is legal - - a government clerk who performs marriage is required to marry gays - - regardless of their personal belief.

Gov employees that refuse to marry gays will be fired. Non-gov individuals that refuse to marry them will be sued.

That's how the system works.

There's no forcing anybody.

Either you're laid off, or you're sued and have to pay cash.

Originally posted by spw184

Originally posted by Annee

People are individuals. Gays are individuals. They are not and never have been a group think.

exactly, there really is no "gay" agenda, we are not a swarm of freaking bees and we do not really communicate to make a plan... the term "community" is VERY loose.

There is an agenda, but its not a human agenda. Men do not know where their thoughts come from. They think its their own thought. Think again.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. -- Ephesians 6:12 KJV

Men are weak, and weak willed. They know not why they desire to do this and that. They just do it, because they get the urge.

But there's a master plan there, behind all the urges, desires, and thoughts. The powers that plant those thoughts in the minds of the weak willed are not visible to the human eye. Only the holy can fully understand. There are two forces in the omniverse, one creating and the other destroying, one producing and the other consuming, one planting seeds and the other tossing the seed away and uprooting the young plants.

Are you planting seeds or tossing away your seed? If planting, do you know that it matters where you plant that seed? In fertile soil the seed will grow, otherwise the effort is just a waste of time and energy. It takes "knowledge" to understand how to plant. The "ignorant" just plant any and everywhere the urge directs them, they bear no fruit. The good spirits direct the faithful to the proper planting grounds, while the evil spirits confuse the planters and direct them elsewhere.

This is why it is important not to confuse the language and destroy the word "marry", the intentions are not the same between the straight couple and the gay couple, nor are they guided by the same invisible spirit.