New Pa. 9/11 video shows smoke after Flight 93 crash

Originally posted by lilowl53
....The best way to learn is from other 9/11 truther veterians, not me. I am new in my reseach and investigations, and cannot provide the best anwsers.

You are not interested in the truth. Your post here proves that you have made up your mind. Putting your fingers in your ears do not make facts disappear. The best way to learn is to enter without bias. You have started research and think this? Sad, really.

Originally posted by hapablab
now that we are on the subject lol

Why was this testimony left out of the 9/11 report?

Here is some information:

Questioning the Mineta timeline

Mineta provides a considerable amount of information in his accounts, and this, along with other recollections of the day, gives us several reasons to believe his timeline is inaccurate.
Packed timetable

One immediate issue with Mineta's story is the implausible number of activities he squeezes in to a very short time. The second impact at the WTC occurred at around 9:02:59, for instance, and Mineta told the 9/11 Commission that he reached the White House at 9:20: around 17 minutes later.

read more here:

Norm Mineta Info

Originally posted by Six Sigma

Originally posted by lilowl53
....The best way to learn is from other 9/11 truther veterians, not me. I am new in my reseach and investigations, and cannot provide the best anwsers.

You are not interested in the truth. Your post here proves that you have made up your mind. Putting your fingers in your ears do not make facts disappear. The best way to learn is to enter without bias. You have started research and think this? Sad, really.

How on earth did you get that from what the OP wrote? I was asking the OP questions and looking for answers about why truthers believe what they believe... since I have not looked too much into the conspiracy at all.So naturally the OP told me to talk to more veteran Truthers..... because as they said, they are new to the research in general...

You completely misunderstood.

The OP just said they don't know much about the subject and are in the process of learning and researching... that would be the exact opposite of what you are suggesting....

You think it is unwise to consider both sides of the story in your research? Well, that is a bit hypocritical of you to say, don't you think? Any good researcher, examines all sides, considers all evidence and then comes to their own conclusion, which is what the OP is doing. The OP did not say they were a truther... Just that they are currently examining what truthers have to say.

The OP can start their research where ever they like.

With all due respect, I only see one sad post in here... Yours. This one that I am replying to.

But what do I know? I am just a dirty liberal hippie.

lilowl53, as I said,send me a message sometime. Would love to talk about all this with out having to worry about ridicule from others for daring to research.

Peace and love.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


Exactly, Thank you!

reply to post by lilowl53


You are very welcome.

Originally posted by lilowl53
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

 

Exactly, Thank you!

What did you mean by this post?

The best way to learn is from other 9/11 truther veterians, not me. I am new in my reseach and investigations, and cannot provide the best anwsers.

Thank you.

reply to post by Six Sigma


What I ment by that was that I am new to the 9/11 threads and that I would not be one to ask any of the hard hitting questions to. I myself am still learning new facts and opinions and my own opinions are still being shaped over time just like everyone elses in every other thread or topic.

Originally posted by Six Sigma

Originally posted by lilowl53
I just can't wrap my mind around the whole flight 93 thing at all. It just has never added up for me.

Simple Math:

Here are 10 Facts regarding flight 93:


1) The four hijackers purchased tickets under their own names and boarded the plane. One was randomly selected for and passed additional security screening. Ziad Jarrah was a licensed pilot and had recent training on professional large jet flight simulators. United flight 93 was scheduled to depart at 8:00 am, but left 42 minutes late due to airport traffic. Aboard were 33 passengers, 7 crew members, and 4 hijackers.

2) Several passengers and crew called from the plane, spoke with loved ones, described the hijackers' attack, and related their plan to try to retake the plane so that it would not be used as a suicide weapon against a populated area. All but two of these calls were made using the plane's seatback Airfones.

3) The cockpit voice recorder recorded the hijackers' attack and apparent murder of the pilots and a flight attendant. Air traffic controllers heard a radio transmission by a man with an Arabic accent, warning of a bomb on board. Passengers reported that one of the hijackers had what appeared to be a bomb strapped to him.

4) After learning about the other attacks, passengers and cabin crew attempted to retake the cockpit but were apparently unable to gain entry. The sound of their attempts was recorded on the CVR. The CVR also recorded the hijackers' decision to end the flight, followed by repeated shouts of "Allahu Akbar!" ("God is greatest.") until the plane crashed. Families of victims heard the CVR recording.

5) Flight 93 was tracked by radar until it went down.

6) Many people in Pennsylvania saw the Boeing 757, traveling at low altitude and high speed, roll to the right and plummet upside-down, nose first, towards the ground. Many people witnessed the subsequent enormous explosion and fireball. Val McClatchey photographed the mushroom cloud.

7) Hundreds of first responders (mostly volunteer firefighters) and crime scene investigators were quickly on the scene. They saw human remains, aircraft wreckage, personal effects, jet fuel, etc.
The cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder were recovered and had usable data, all of which is consistent with the other evidence.

8) The remains of every victim was positively identified. Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller personally collected many remains and made 12 identifications through fingerprints and dental records. Personal effects of most passengers and crew were recovered and returned to their families.

9) Hijacker identification documents and personal effects were recovered, along with the remains of four people identified as the hijackers through the process of elimination.

10) Aircraft remains were recovered by professional investigators and by civilians. The debris was returned to United Airlines after being examined for evidence of explosives use.

Cool story bro. I saw that movie also. You really took alot of time and effort to clearly spell out this conspiracy story. I bet you cannot prove even one fact in that story. AS A MATTER OF FACT, I BET YOU CANNOT PROVE HOW THE 2 NON PLANC CALLS WERE MADE FROM A CELL PHONE AT 500 MPH AT 35,000 FEET....

SPEW YOUR SHILL LIES TO SOMEONE ELSE.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth

What has not added up though? ( Forgive me, I don't usually get into the 9/11 forums.) People attempted to highjack a plane, and they ended up crashing into the ground killing everyone on board because they were unable to keep control of the plane long enough to make it to the white house. I don't know. makes sense to me. But again, I don't get into the 9/11 forums so I am not all that up on the 9/11 conspiracies.

Gimme_some_truth, no offense, but if you "don't usually get into the 9/11 forums" and you "aren't all that up on the 9/11 conspiracies," why are you coming in here uninformed and asking questions like, "What has not added up?"

There are volumes of threads on this topic that have all the information you need, so it is a bit irritating to see a member pop in and make implications about a thread while, at the same time, expecting to be educated about the talking points of the event.

Why did you choose this 9/11 to comment in?

Originally posted by NightGypsy
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

 

What has not added up though? ( Forgive me, I don't usually get into the 9/11 forums.) People attempted to highjack a plane, and they ended up crashing into the ground killing everyone on board because they were unable to keep control of the plane long enough to make it to the white house. I don't know. makes sense to me. But again, I don't get into the 9/11 forums so I am not all that up on the 9/11 conspiracies.

Gimme_some_truth, no offense, but if you "don't usually get into the 9/11 forums" and you "aren't all that up on the 9/11 conspiracies," why are you coming in here uninformed and asking questions like, "What has not added up?"

There are volumes of threads on this topic that have all the information you need, so it is a bit irritating to see a member pop in and make implications about a thread while, at the same time, expecting to be educated about the talking points of the event.

Why did you choose this 9/11 to comment in?

Why did I ask what has not added up?Because I want to learn the answer... Same reason any one asks questions. Is that bad? I don't think so. Why do you have an issue with a new person to the 9/11 forum and conspiracy, asking questions and wanting to learn?

Why did I choose this thread to post in? Because the threat title grabbed my attention... new video dealing with 9/11. Sounds interesting. No? It sounded interesting to me.

If you are thinking that I was being dishonest in saying that I do not frequent this forum, please.. take a look around the forum.... I think I made one thread in here... and probably a handful of posts.... Most of which have been in this thread.


No offense taken... Now, I really did not have to explain myself, or justify why I am asking questions, trying to learn, and posting in this thread.... But I did because I am a nice guy... We all start off uninformed... My username should give you a clue as to my intentions on this website. I want the truth... I am here because the thread grabbed my attention, and sparked some interest to start researching 9/11 and the conspiracies behind it.

If that is a problem for you, I do not apologize. No offense to you either.

Question, is the 9/11 forum really this crazy that people get suspicious of people who become interested in the conspiracy? Look, if you are suspicious of me,there is no reason to be... I am just a guy. I like to read and learn. I like to discuss.

I am starting to think there needs to be an addition to the topics not to discuss in polite company. Religion, politics and 9/11

Originally posted by Six Sigma

Originally posted by lilowl53
I just can't wrap my mind around the whole flight 93 thing at all. It just has never added up for me.

Simple Math:

Here are 10 Facts regarding flight 93:


1) The four hijackers purchased tickets under their own names and boarded the plane. One was randomly selected for and passed additional security screening. Ziad Jarrah was a licensed pilot and had recent training on professional large jet flight simulators. United flight 93 was scheduled to depart at 8:00 am, but left 42 minutes late due to airport traffic. Aboard were 33 passengers, 7 crew members, and 4 hijackers.

2) Several passengers and crew called from the plane, spoke with loved ones, described the hijackers' attack, and related their plan to try to retake the plane so that it would not be used as a suicide weapon against a populated area. All but two of these calls were made using the plane's seatback Airfones.

3) The cockpit voice recorder recorded the hijackers' attack and apparent murder of the pilots and a flight attendant. Air traffic controllers heard a radio transmission by a man with an Arabic accent, warning of a bomb on board. Passengers reported that one of the hijackers had what appeared to be a bomb strapped to him.

4) After learning about the other attacks, passengers and cabin crew attempted to retake the cockpit but were apparently unable to gain entry. The sound of their attempts was recorded on the CVR. The CVR also recorded the hijackers' decision to end the flight, followed by repeated shouts of "Allahu Akbar!" ("God is greatest.") until the plane crashed. Families of victims heard the CVR recording.

5) Flight 93 was tracked by radar until it went down.

6) Many people in Pennsylvania saw the Boeing 757, traveling at low altitude and high speed, roll to the right and plummet upside-down, nose first, towards the ground. Many people witnessed the subsequent enormous explosion and fireball. Val McClatchey photographed the mushroom cloud.

7) Hundreds of first responders (mostly volunteer firefighters) and crime scene investigators were quickly on the scene. They saw human remains, aircraft wreckage, personal effects, jet fuel, etc.
The cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder were recovered and had usable data, all of which is consistent with the other evidence.

8) The remains of every victim was positively identified. Somerset County Coroner Wallace Miller personally collected many remains and made 12 identifications through fingerprints and dental records. Personal effects of most passengers and crew were recovered and returned to their families.

9) Hijacker identification documents and personal effects were recovered, along with the remains of four people identified as the hijackers through the process of elimination.

10) Aircraft remains were recovered by professional investigators and by civilians. The debris was returned to United Airlines after being examined for evidence of explosives use.

wHY DID YOU STEAL THIS INFORMATION OFF THE INTERNET, AND COPY AND PASTE IT HERE AS IF YOU WROTE IT YOURSELF WITHOUT GIVING THE AUTHOR OR WEBSITE CREDIT? Isnt that against the rules?

If I copy something and take credit for it, that is called Plagiarism. is it not the same when you do it.

it seems as if you copy and paste and take credit alot for it here on this site. i hope ATS does not get in trouble for it.

here is the site you took the liberty of unethucally copying from...

sites.google.com...

After reading all of your past posts, and content. I am sure you have an agenda, and are not worth my time anymore.

Someone really should report you if you are stealing copy off the internet and posting it here as your own. Your contributions seem only to put down what 70% of this country believes.....

Originally posted by MentalGiant


Cool story bro. I saw that movie also. You really took alot of time and effort to clearly spell out this conspiracy story. I bet you cannot prove even one fact in that story. AS A MATTER OF FACT, I BET YOU CANNOT PROVE HOW THE 2 NON PLANC CALLS WERE MADE FROM A CELL PHONE AT 500 MPH AT 35,000 FEET....

SPEW YOUR SHILL LIES TO SOMEONE ELSE.

lmfao.... No, you need to prove to me that two cell phone calls were made at 35,000 feet.

You can't, actually. The two calls; One from Edward Felt to the Westmoreland 911 dispatch and one from flight attendant Cee Cee Lyles to her home were both made at 9:58 am when flight 93 was at 5 thousand feet.

So, instead of calling me a liar and a shill, I suggest you get your facts straight.

I apologize from not giving Mark Roberts his due credit for the 10 facts. (even though I changed #10) I have posted them here so many times, I assumed everyone knew where they came from.

Originally posted by gimme_some_truthYeah, I was wondering why the owner of the video did not release it to anyone.... I don't know. Maybe they did not want to be hounded 24/7 by the media wanting to interview them all the time

By the thought of people like the loose change nutters breathing down my neck i would have kept the video away from anyone, including friends and family.

The media can be a pain in the rear som times, but will more often than not take a no for an answer.

reply to post by Six Sigma


Six Sigma - People who have made up their minds regardless of the facts are never going to change their beliefs. I applaud your efforts to infuse a few facts into this thread of opinions, but I'm afraid that they will continue with their resorting to name calling rather than intelligent conversation. This is the reason why I normally stay out of the 9-11 nonsense threads and am once again reminded of that. I came into this thread to see a video and got the usual hysteria. My bad.

And, before all the name calling begins - I do, in fact, believe there is more to 9-11 than we have been told. Did the government know it was coming and let it happen? I believe so. Did the government plant bombs/mini nukes/magic thermite paint/holographic planes/etc.? I doubt it.

Originally posted by tallcool1
reply to post by Six Sigma

 

Six Sigma - People who have made up their minds regardless of the facts are never going to change their beliefs. I applaud your efforts to infuse a few facts into this thread of opinions, but I'm afraid that they will continue with their resorting to name calling rather than intelligent conversation. This is the reason why I normally stay out of the 9-11 nonsense threads and am once again reminded of that. I came into this thread to see a video and got the usual hysteria. My bad.

Okay... Lot's of craziness in this thread... But not from the people I suspect you are talking about.

I have seen no one call any names in this thread though. Good bad or otherwise....

I agree though....There has been a bit of craziness. But its been things like... Being interrogated for daring to find a new interest in the subject. Does that happen a lot here? Do I really have to justify my new found interest in the subject? Because that is just silly.

reply to post by gimme_some_truth


Six Sigma was called both a troll and a shill. You may not see that as name calling but I do. When people do not have a logical argument against a fact, they resort to name calling. Especially in the 9/11 and UFO forums. That is why I mostly stay out of them, but here I am again. I feel the need to facepalm myself.

Edited to add: Gimme Some Truth, my post wasn't directed toward you at all. While you certainly have every right to ask questions about 9/11 in this thread, I would suggest you take some time to go over the considerable amount of opinions posted in the 9/11 forums if you truly are interested in the many theories regarding that tragic event. The forums have been quite heated from the get go and people on all sides have often resorted to insults and name calling rather than intelligent debate - so I tend to feel it is a waste of time for me personally to go into those forums.

And now I feel that I have somewhat hijacked this thread enough and will now move on to other threads.

Originally posted by tallcool1
reply to post by gimme_some_truth

 

Six Sigma was called both a troll and a shill. You may not see that as name calling but I do. When people do not have a logical argument against a fact, they resort to name calling. Especially in the 9/11 and UFO forums. That is why I mostly stay out of them, but here I am again. I feel the need to facepalm myself.

Edited to add: Gimme Some Truth, my post wasn't directed toward you at all. While you certainly have every right to ask questions about 9/11 in this thread, I would suggest you take some time to go over the considerable amount of opinions posted in the 9/11 forums if you truly are interested in the many theories regarding that tragic event. The forums have been quite heated from the get go and people on all sides have often resorted to insults and name calling rather than intelligent debate - so I tend to feel it is a waste of time for me personally to go into those forums.

And now I feel that I have somewhat hijacked this thread enough and will now move on to other threads.

edit on 6-9-2011 by tallcool1 because: To address G.S.T.

Ah, Actually I do remember one post not aimed at anyone... Actually I thought it was aimed at me ( Incorrectly) saying, not to be a troll, because it is ugly.

I honestly see nothing wrong with calling some one a troll on here.... If it is justified.... I have my own opinion as to whether or not it is justified ( Assuming it was aimed at six) but I will keep that to myself. Just don't hold the name calling against those who are not doing any. You know? At least be fair about it.

And for what it is worth, when I was talking about people interrogating me looking at me to justify my being in this forum, I was talking about NightGypsy and their post to me.

As for replying to your post, I know it was not aimed at me at all. But that does not mean I can't respond to you with my two cents. No harm meant if my replying to you, offended you in any way.

That said, I will most definitely check out as many threads as I can... I do understand why you try to stay out of this forum.... It seems lots of people take it so personal. Maybe I will just read them and keep my thoughts to myself for now?

Who knows though.

new rule... No talking about religion,politics or 9/11 in polite company ..... Either that or everyone must thicken up there skin before they come in here. It is a sensitive subject,but I see no reason anyone should be fighting and taking it so personal.... If that makes sense. I think we are all adults here... and I think we should all be able to discuss such things as adults.

Peace and love.

and for those of you, who for some reason seem to think I am a truther.... I am not... I have no opinion yet. I am considering both sides and examining all evidence, then I will make up my mind as to what I believe.

9/11 threads seem to always go to poo poo.

ANYWAY! To get back to the topic of this video....I noticed after watching it again, no time or date stamps. Again with my theory that it was made at another time...

Can anyone find a longer version of this vid, or even a similar one from another witness, doesn't seem like a lot of smoke, just a big poof and then a bit of a trail. Other plane crash vids have thick black smoke that trails on and on for a good amount of time.

reply to post by lilowl53


Yeah the raw video with out over dubbing from the news is bound to be floating around... Let me take a quick look.

Yeah, here it is, I think. Interesting to hear what the guy is actually saying. Still no time stamp or anything, though you don't always see that with cameras anymore.

Originally posted by lilowl53
9/11 threads seem to always go to poo poo.

ANYWAY! To get back to the topic of this video....I noticed after watching it again, no time or date stamps. Again with my theory that it was made at another time...

Can anyone find a longer version of this vid, or even a similar one from another witness, doesn't seem like a lot of smoke, just a big poof and then a bit of a trail. Other plane crash vids have thick black smoke that trails on and on for a good amount of time.

If it had a time or date stamp would you believe it?

This is the earliest known video pertaining to the aftermath of Flight 93. The video is genuine. Unless you have some evidence of it being manipulated by an elderly man and his wife.